Emotional Intelligence Podcast Episodes

Part 1:

Specific emotions tend to drive specific behavior. And so even as believers, and we think about being called to live in certain ways, if we’re going to try to live a certain way, but we don’t have any ability to identify and regulate emotions, that’s going to make that journey very, very difficult.

Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. Amber Miller and Brian Sutter are with me today. Welcome to both of you. Thanks. Yeah. Good to be here. The topic today is emotional intelligence. Sometimes that goes by EQ or the emotional quotient.

For any out there who doesn’t know what we’re talking about, I think it would serve us well to have a definition, start to cage this term, tell us what it is. Yeah, maybe just as a starting point, just to think of emotional intelligence as being able to understand what emotions are at a high level, as well as internally to be able to identify, label your own emotions, be aware of other people’s emotions, and then being able to navigate those well.

And so, with that too, the reason that we want to encourage people to do that and why it’s important to do that is just because our emotions lead to behaviors. And if we’re not careful, those lead to behaviors that are not godly. Okay. So, you’ve just, Amber, with that made a connection here, the effect that emotions have.

There’s a cause and effect and our behaviors often stem from our emotions. Can I say feelings? Are feelings and emotions similar? I’m sure there are some differences to tease out, but is that accurate? Yeah. I think you can use those pretty interchangeably. Same thing. Yeah. But to see that we’re a product of the way that we feel and the emotions that we’re having and also probably impacted by other people’s emotions.

And so that’s really what you’re saying there, Brian, is an awareness of my own emotions and the awareness of another person’s and then somewhat the awareness of how these two are going to interact. Yeah. Is that part of what? Absolutely. Yeah. And I think too, it’s just an area of life where it’s easy to fall into one of two ditches, one being to overvalue emotions and see them in such a place that they kind of rule and reign over everything. But then also the other ditch can be to just minimize.

To say that the goal is really to get rid of emotions and that sort of a thing and neither of those are good places. They’re important to validate. They’re important to be there, but they’re certainly not to be in charge.

Well, let’s start maybe by a little bit of creation. Where do emotions come from? I would say God has emotions. Do we have that in Scripture? Well, I think you certainly see God being a relational being and even in his interaction with Adam and Eve and the garden and the different things that he does, it would seem to indicate that him being the originator and creating us in his image, that would seem to portray this idea that God has emotions, cares about emotions, and there are emotions throughout the Scriptures all over the place.

No, and it is really true, when you look at Scripture, you have a whole book, Lamentations. It’s all about sadness and going through that. And you think of all the Psalms too, and the ups and downs that King David had. And so, you see, again, just the person’s emotional experience throughout Scripture.

Even in one Psalm, you can have David go from the lowest of troughs to what would seem the highest of mountaintops. Yeah. And in capturing that, I think it’s one of the reasons why so many people gravitate towards the Psalms and really identify with the Psalms because they’re real and they don’t shy away from really intense, hard, open expression of emotion.

Right. So, if we’re saying that’s part of our design, and as you said there, Brian, that somehow that comes out of God’s likeness in whatever way that might be too deep for us to understand, but in some ways, it comes out of our likeness to him. And so, then it might serve some purposes.

What are some of the purposes the emotions play? Specific emotions tend to drive specific behavior. And so, even as believers, we think about being called to live in certain ways. If we’re going to try to live a certain way, but we don’t have any ability to identify and regulate emotions, that’s going to make that journey very, very difficult.

To behave against emotion is a difficult thing. Exactly. Amber, were you ever told by your parents to forgive your brother or sister? Your emotions were there. Probably not. I have no idea. Well, let me tell you that I so know what that’s like, right? Which basically we’re saying behave this way.

And to your point, with the emotions not there, it makes even that activity difficult. Now, I’m not saying that my forgiveness is locked up in my emotions. I’m just saying it’s a difficult exercise. And it’s that place where emotion becomes action, but also an important part of emotion that it informs us.

It informs us of maybe what’s going on internally, but also what might be going on for somebody else based on their body cues or body language as well as for our own. And that when we see somebody hurting, oh, I might not realize it, but maybe I’ve hurt them, and I need to engage the behavior of forgiveness when I don’t necessarily feel that.

And without emotion, you can’t empathize with someone. I can’t put myself in someone else’s shoes. I think it’s pretty natural for us to just have this awareness that, hey, someone’s crying. What does that mean to us? And I think each of us would be able to say what that means. Most people would, if you see someone that’s laughing or smiling, again, we connect with that.

And so, it’s really being able to understand the emotion of someone else, put us in their place. Is this a discipline whereby we can become more empathetic, more aware? I think so. What would some of that look like? We had to go through some of that training just in our education, learning again, what are body cues and how do you pick those things up?

And again, what are responses to some emotional experiences that people have? And so, again, I’m not saying that everybody needs to be a counselor to do that, but over time, if you are interested in relationships and desire to grow in those, I think you prioritize that and you look for ways to engage with others.

And sometimes it is over years of interaction that you learn that something I say in this situation, or this is a circumstance where I’m silent and I just listen. So, it comes a lot just through being with people. If you’re cognizant of these interactions that you’re having. Basically, as a counselor, you’ve had a great deal of interactions with people in these deep levels and that engenders an empathy in a sense, an awareness of the way people feel.

In my mind, one of the key points there is to be able to be in tune with your own emotions, like to know when you’re feeling sad and to be able to connect with that. Whereas I think for a lot of us we try to distance ourselves from emotions. Or minimize them, that we can give emotions a bad rap and therefore see them as unnecessary or something to get rid of.

But if we can connect with our own emotions and we know what it’s like to be sad ourselves, and then we’re picking up from somebody else, oh, it looks like they might be sad. That is going to give us cues on how to connect with their sadness when we’ve already known how to connect with our own. So, you’ve already mentioned that one of the ditches is that we minimize emotions.

Yeah. So, you’re pulling us out of that ditch and saying, emotions mean something and this person is experiencing something that’s not too distant from maybe what you’ve experienced to connect with that. Yeah, exactly. And that just gives us the opportunity, I think, to build that community that we desire.

And I think the Scriptures certainly support that. But without some emotional awareness and ability then to connect with somebody else who’s hurting, that makes it very difficult to cultivate that kind of culture. And with that minimization, a lot of times I see someone who’s just trying to push away anything that’s negative.

And so, they always want to stay positive. And so, some people may think, well, I get emotion, but I would also just ask a person to look at that and are you okay sitting in the heart emotion. Can you express emotion and then can you be okay with anger, with sadness and just wrestling through some of those things instead of just, okay, I feel it.

It’s gone. I’m done in that moment. You have to recognize that anger and sadness have a place and have a healthy place. Yeah. They’re cues in some way. In counseling, one of the old sayings that’s been around for a long time is that if you can name it, then you can tame it. So, if you can name the feeling and you can connect with it, then that’s going to give you the ability over time to be able to deal with it and work through it.

But yeah, just having language around emotion is a big key, that I think can allow us to step into some of those vulnerable interactions and relationships with people. Whereas, you know, it’s pretty easy at this point, just to gravitate, talking about the things that are pretty high level, which isn’t always wrong, but we need those deeper conditions.

It’s not wrong, but when we’re avoiding what needs to be said or what needs to be worked through, that’s where it’s wrong. And to be able to do that, it’s going to take some emotional intelligence to understand your own emotions and be able to sit with other people’s emotions, especially those hard emotions that are uncomfortable.

Let’s go to the other ditch. Emotions are too much in the driver’s seat. Okay, paint that scenario. In my mind, that’s where culture is in general right now, and it says do what you feel, you are what you feel, and just to be authentic means that you let emotions tell you what is real, and you follow that with passion.

And that sounds really good, it sounds really exciting, but it’s pretty dangerous, and it doesn’t end very well. Yeah, I think that is a big myth right now. I just can’t help how I feel. And so, people just really dive into their emotion. And like we’re saying, it’s important to know that and know where you’re at emotionally, but that’s not necessarily helpful to sit in for days or to sit there and all of a sudden that’s driving everything you’re doing or not doing just strictly based on what you’re feeling at that moment.

To live in a way that’s consistent with the Scriptures, in a way that is wise we need you know the high functioning part of our brain, our frontal cortex, which is the thinking part of the brain that needs to really be engaged and if we just let the emotion run then it’s going to make it difficult for the Scriptures to be the thing that actually end up dictating our behavior.

That connection there that says if we’re not thinking in a way that’s in line with the Scriptures, it’s just emotion, we’re going to all live like two-year-olds and that’s not a good place to be. So, there’s a connection here between thought and emotion and behavior. So put all those together then.

I guess going off what Brian said too is that a lot of times I’ll explain it as emotions on one side and then logic on the other. And when you mix those together, you get wisdom. And so, even thinking through, people will maybe tend toward one way of thinking. People will tend toward logic or people will tend to be more driven by emotion.

But that doesn’t mean we can just reject the other. We have to learn how to blend that into our thinking so that we can move toward wisdom. And I think too, when I read the Apostle Paul, I think he’s a pretty strong logical kind of a person, but also, I see him express really strong love and care and compassion towards people.

And I just love that mix of him. He is a very strong thinker but also cares deeply about people in that mix. Obviously, the Spirit working in him then to live and behave in a way that’s consistent with the model of Christ. You almost get a sense that his strong thinking, strong biblical God oriented thoughts gave rise to very appropriate feeling.

We feel very appropriately about the lost, for example, when we’re thinking accurately about the lost. When we’re thinking appropriately about our own sin, then we feel appropriately about our own sin. Another myth that we’ll hear quite often or we see people wrestle with is that emotions are bad.

And so again, I think that’s where you see more of that shoving or that stuffing, because people don’t know what to do with those. And again, if you don’t know what to do with your anger, you don’t know what to do with your fear or your sadness, that is a really scary place to be. I mean, I think there is an association between weakness and emotion. A weak person will not be able to stand up. Don’t cry, for example, right? Yeah, and I think that’s another very common myth that we hear too, that if I were just stronger or whatever, then I wouldn’t feel this way. I wouldn’t experience it this way. And a lot of times, that’s not the case at all.

It’s just that emotion is going to come with things of life. And sometimes that’s sadness. Sometimes that’s anger. Sometimes that’s excitement. And that’s just part of the package. Another one that comes to mind too, is just that I’ll always feel this way. And so again, sitting in that heart emotion and not really seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with that.

And so, all of a sudden you get this discouragement that sets in and all sorts of other negative emotions that it’s almost like they start to multiply. Yeah. It’s hard for a profoundly sad person to view themselves not sad anymore. Right. And that’s what you’re saying. Yeah. Sometimes it becomes a person’s identity and that’s my personality or this is just who I am.

And maybe we should add as a resource, Winnie the Pooh. That’s probably some good reading there, right? Yeah. Eeyore and Tigger. Classic example. Piglet. There’s a lot to learn. Oh, my. Yes, there is. Okay.

How about our own bodies? Our bodies, our physiologies, make a difference. Hormones make a difference. Yeah. That all weighs in and that’s got to be a part of our regulation lens. Yeah. And I think our body can help us signify what we’re feeling. Like, even just over the weekend, there were certainly times, it was an intense weekend, where I just have a pretty strong pain in my chest. And for me to be able to recognize, oh, my chest hurts, you know what? I think I’m feeling pretty anxious. And I need to go for a walk, or I need to take some deep breaths, or I need to talk to somebody. So yeah, your body is kind of signifying, oh, something’s going on here. And if you can get aware of that and aware of it earlier, it’s going to help you process through it.

An illustration that I love to use with people is a car dashboard. And a lot of times you see little indicator lights come on and you know what to do with that. You know what to do if you see your gas light come on in your car, you better go fill up with gas. But a lot of times when people see little emotion lights go on in their brain, they don’t know what to do with that.

Okay. I feel lonely. Well, what’s nine out of 10 people’s response when they feel lonely? They probably isolate themselves more, unfortunately, instead of addressing the need for that little indicator light that’s gone off. And the right way to deal with that would be, hey, I’m lonely, I need to go seek out some people. I need to go be with people for a while. Yeah. And I think too, even in counseling, that sometimes as a starting point we would have somebody start with, hey, why don’t you go get checked out medically and run some blood tests or just make sure that there’s not something physically going on.

That’s maybe the driver here. I think that certainly would make a lot of sense. Yeah. There’s no question that we have stereotypes for a reason. And you think about puberty and teenage girls and stuff, and there’s a reason why they’re all over the place emotionally. Menopause, I mean, just all sorts of changes, pregnancy, for crying out loud.

And a lot of times people joke about those things, but it’s very real. And all of a sudden people are feeling things and whole new intensities that they’ve never felt before. And they’re not sure what’s going on? To be prudent in those times of life is to say, wait a minute here, how much is my own chemistry and how much is emotion.

It just reminds me too, that God has created us all a bit different. And one of the visuals that I have is that I see God and there’s different knobs and some people, he turns the emotional knob up and they feel emotion really intensely, and then it maybe shows up in their body more so. And therefore, like the Scriptures tell us, it’s not wise to compare ourselves among ourselves because my experience of sadness is going to be felt very differently than somebody else’s and that’s the knob that God set, and I need to know mine and respect somebody else’s. And that if I walk through it this way and they walk through it that way we can join each other rather than figure out who’s right if that makes sense.

Because I do think there’s a very much comparison, as you mentioned. Yeah. It’s like, well, I’ve been through that, and it didn’t have that same effect. I didn’t feel that way. So, yours must be unwarranted. Yes, exactly. And then it kind of throws it right back into some of those myths of, well, maybe I shouldn’t feel this way or what am I doing wrong?

And we want to think about those things and think, you know, what can I do differently? But a lot of times it’s regulation. Yeah. I’m going to cut in on our conversation regarding emotional intelligence right here and bring this episode of Breaking Bread to a close. But more of the conversation still remains and we look forward to airing that the next time. And when we do, we’re going to zero in on skill set. What does it look like to apply some of what we’ve learned? So, we look forward to that. Thanks, listeners, for being with us.

Part 2:

And so, if you start to ask people to pull out four or five different feelings that are actually all interwoven together, that helps differentiate, and that helps them understand a little bit more of what’s going on inside versus just lumping that into one big fake word. Today on Breaking Bread, we’re back with Brian and Amber, and we’re going to finish a conversation that we started regarding emotional regulation or emotional intelligence.

Particularly, we’re going to focus on the skills. When we talk about emotional intelligence, it’s all good and well to have a definition and know I need to improve in that. But it’s very helpful, I think, to distill things down to some points of application or maybe a skill set or some tools in the toolbox.

I’d love it if we could provide some of that direction. So, I think maybe a starting point, just in general, would be to think about emotions and being able to identify what they are at the intensity level. And if you know the intensity level, then that helps you know what to do with it.

So, for example, just at a high level, to think of emotions on a 0 to 10 scale. And breaking that into three categories, green, which is low or good emotion, medium being yellow, and red being the most intense. And I think that’s at least a starting point that kind of gives some framework to categorize emotions and what you need to do to help you work through those emotions.

And I might even take the airplane up another 10, 000 feet, Brian. Okay. Yeah. And naming emotions. Does that make sense? Yes. And, you know, I’ve seen those pictures of 25 emojis, right? Faces, like. And sometimes that can be helpful too because in my head I’m angry. And that’s it. But maybe there’s some hurt or is there something there that I’m missing?

Does that make sense, Amber? Oh, for sure. And it is really easy to use very vague language around your emotions. So, a lot of times, you ask somebody, hey, how you doing? Fine. Well, what in the world does fine mean? And my fine may be very different than Brian’s fine or your fine, Matt. Or ask somebody why they’re feeling bad. Bad’s a very loaded word. And so if you start to ask people to pull out four or five different feelings that are actually all interwoven together that helps differentiate and helps them understand a little bit more of what’s going on inside versus just lumping that into one big vague word like bad or good. Language is key. I think language is incredibly powerful. It unlocks communication, it unlocks relaying what’s happening.

And so, sometimes maybe just emotion 101 would be basic emotional terms. Betrayal, for example, trust and distrustful, or all of a sudden they have nuances that kind of unlock my reality. Whereas to your point, Amber, I’m lumping it all up and bad. Right. And in that too, just being able to convey some of those nuances by, I think it’s really frustration or no, it’s really anger, or it’s hurt.

And all of that conveys a little bit different, but also this reality that a lot of times there’s multiple emotions going on at once. But again, like you guys are both saying that to be able to just put some language to that and that language to be accurate can be very helpful. Even for another comment, I think just a general term we use is low self-esteem.

Well, that’s not an emotion. And what do you do with that versus like, no, I feel hurt. Okay, where’s that coming from and how do you work through that? Right. Where’s some of the general stuff. Dealing with low self-esteem, for example, is way too broad to have any sort of diagnosis or have any sort of help.

That’s what I’m hearing you say. It’s much more complex than that, than addressing a low self-esteem. Right, yeah. And that kind of language we can use today just leaves people feeling like, well, it is what it is and then there’s nowhere to go with it.

Vocabulary helps in terms of emotions. Well, there are a lot of good resources on our website that talk through different labeling. And to your point, too, once you have the right labels and the right intensity around your feelings, then you can pull out the right tools to use. The only thing you know how to use is a hammer.

That’s maybe not helpful. Yeah, when not everything’s a nail. Right, exactly. And so, you need to be able to use different tools for different intensity levels of emotions, different types of emotions. And so that’s all on the website. Okay. So, I like that. So, I want to just trace this logical thought. We’ve said identifying what the emotion is and the vocabulary that is required then intensity.

How intense is this? Brian, you said green, yellow, red intensity. And then I like where you’re going with that, Amber. Then it’s like, okay, now I’m going to find the X, Y, or Z tool for this. What would a tool look like? Yeah, just a general tool that maybe would be very common for all of us and that we all use to some degree would just be like slowing down, thinking, and taking 10 really slow, deep breaths. You know, that would be an example of a tool that helps give you some space to think, identify those emotions, and hopefully also calm those emotions a bit. You know, I think we’ve heard that before, taking deep breaths.

What was actually happening in that? Because I think sometimes, we can roll our eyes at that type of thing. And say, okay, here we go, take deep breaths. But there is something physically happening. Right. So, I mean, at a biological or scientific level, God’s given us two nervous system, a parasympathetic nervous system that is calming and then a sympathetic nervous system that really kind of fires up when we’re in danger or something difficult happens.

And so, when that sympathetic nervous system fires, it can be really helpful, but sometimes with that sympathetic nervous system comes messages that aren’t true, like, there’s no hope, or you’re bad, or this is really scary. And some of the times that’s accurate and other times it’s not. And to calm that sympathetic nervous system down by deep breathing helps then re-engage your thinking and then better assess if that makes sense.

So, you’re really saying your brain consumes oxygen. It needs oxygen in order to do its job well. And by breathing, you’re giving it what it wants. That makes sense. Yeah. So, another really common tool that we’ll teach is using different senses, your five senses. And when you get very trapped in your emotion, it’s like you go inside yourself and you forget your surroundings. And so, using your senses helps you re-engage with what’s happening around you. So, it’s very common for people to enjoy listening to music and they find that can be really calming. So, they put their headphones in. Or sight, being able to look at old pictures that bring back happy memories or things like that.

If they’re feeling upset or emotionally charged. Smell, people use oils or candles or different things like that they have burning in their home. Again, a piece of candy or gum or something like that can be relaxing for people and touch as well using lotion. And all of a sudden, you’re smelling something as well as engaging with touch.

Another way that I’ll have clients engage touch is to use temperature. And a very popular way to do that would be to hold an ice cube over a sink. And again, it’s a way to all of a sudden be focused on another part. You’re kind of coming outside of your brain and you’re focused on the here and now and what’s happening in that moment.

And so, it kind of helps just re-engage the brain in a different way. And it makes me think, Amber, how many of us after we’ve had an experience, we go and replay that experience. Let’s say you’ve had a difficult conversation with a roommate or a coworker. Your mind moves out of the present moment into our brains, just replaying those experiences and using our senses to bring us back into the here and now can be helpful again to process through that and not just replay it. Right.

We’ve got an example of that in our home right now. So, we’ve got a six-month-old. Right. And I have found, as I’ve observed my family, that engaging with her is a very emotionally healthy thing to do. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. In fact, it’s kind of amazing how you can be angry and frustrated and even in an argument and then stop, kootsy koo, you know, kootsy kootsy koo and then get back into it. You know what I’m saying? But it’s difficult to kootsy koo and argue with another person or even deal with your bad day at the same time.

I think what you’re saying there is it’s like getting out of yourself, right? All of a sudden, you’ve got to dump your own baggage down if you’re going to engage with a six-month-old. That’s right. So, I think it’s really speaking to those tools. And I think that’s a really good point, Matt, that we do this in day-to-day life and usually don’t even realize it.

But, there are times when emotions are really intense and because we haven’t done these things on purpose, they’re just natural to do. We don’t realize that. And I guess what we’re trying to do is just say, you’re already doing a lot of this probably. Now just purposefully do this, especially as your emotions move into that yellow and red range.

It is amazing how our bodies have been created for regulation. And so, we do have a lot of these tools. Like I just mentioned, the senses, this is all built into our systems and it’s just learning how to really access that in a way that’s healthy and helpful so that you can be joyful and helpful in your interactions with others.

Yeah. You know, I was just talking with somebody who gave his own testimony. He says, I’ve learned that if I go to a different room, if I go to a different environment, all of a sudden that changes, maybe oppression or this feeling of struggle or whatever. And I think it’s speaking again to those senses, like all of a sudden, your body is firing, giving itself information, fresh new information.

Right. And what a powerful and really straightforward way to help manage emotions is like, okay, I think I’m going to leave this place now and go into a different environment outside. Those are really helpful. What other ones would you have?

So, a framework that I like to introduce to people is called wise mind and it helps people remember that there are two sides to look at. Some people just by their nature and personality will get trapped more into a logical mind where you go into that space, and you think of things more through facts and reason.

And then the other side is more emotional. Like we’re talking about where your emotions start to take over and hijack your system. And everything is seen as truth through what you’re feeling, which as we’re talking about, is so not accurate. And so, wisdom can really be found when those things are blended together.

Right. And when you can put those things both into action at the same time. Yeah. Well, you guys are the experts here, but I was just talking to Ted, and he was talking about the right hemisphere, the left hemisphere, and really how they do both of that. Together they give you a good accurate picture of the world. Separately, they don’t necessarily give you the most accurate picture of the world. And so, I think what you’re saying, correct me if I’m wrong, is sometimes you need to intentionally fire up the other side. And for most of us, one of those sides can be more natural than the other. And just being aware of that and at times if you’re the person whose emotion is really reserved, that’s a good thing.

But at times, people need to know that you’re excited or that you’re hurt and to really let that loose can be a challenge, but it’s necessary. Or the logical side, like if you’re really raw emotion and that tends to rule, like bringing in reason and truth and those things that you can know is really important to temper and help you walk through those emotions.

And those might be friends or companions. So, yes, that can help me think through the logic of this, because I know I tend on the emotional side or help me with my emotion because I know I cannot be right. And I think it speaks to just the body of Christ and needing to be around people who have different strengths and talents and letting them point those things out, encourage you in that and just see the value of both and not spiritualize one over the other, which we can tend to do.

But rather to see these as both a pairing that can be a good thing and balance each other and help each other. I appreciate you saying not over spiritualizing one over the other. Because I think sometimes, we can say that. Feelings have the bad rap. You know what I mean?

Like, you know, you stop feeling, but there is something masterful in God creating us to be feeling beings, isn’t there? Yeah. I mean, there’s just a dynamic of life. And of what living is, that really comes into its own because he’s created us that way. And really, it would have to be more for his glory that we would have that feeling aspect. And one of the examples in Scripture that I think just really confounds me is Christ’s reaction after Lazarus death. He weeps, but that doesn’t make any sense. You know, logically, he knows what’s going to happen. His left side or hemisphere, right?

I don’t know which. I have no idea which hemisphere. But one of those hemispheres should have straightened him out, right? But you’re saying it didn’t. He knew it was going to happen. He intended it, right? He knew it was going to happen in a few minutes and yet he wept. He felt the emotion.

And I think to me, that’s such a powerful picture that God knew the logic and the emotion. He really hurt with those who were hurting and what he knew didn’t take away from that. Yeah. That’s a classic example of empathy, right? Jesus, no doubt was connecting with the people and their sorrow.

Well, another tool or thought that comes to mind. In counseling, we call this cognitive fusion, that we can fuse with our thoughts. And what that means is basically that we treat our thoughts as if they’re true or as if they’re the most important thing. That is my reality. That if I think something, it is reality.

And obviously the Scriptures teach us to take our thoughts captive. It’s important to consider those things. But if we see those as being the reality and that they rule us, it’s a pretty dangerous place. And so, having some distance from our thoughts can be really helpful and important. To be able to recognize they’re just thoughts and just because we have this thought doesn’t necessarily mean something about us, or it doesn’t necessarily mean something about what’s going to happen.

It sometimes is just a thought. Yeah, I think the phrase that we’ve all heard is, don’t take yourself so seriously. I think it’s speaking to that point where you realize that the truth of the matter is not within yourself, but the truth of the matter is outside yourself. And that allows you not to take yourself so seriously, knowing that you need to be informed with the truth that’s outside.

And we understand biblically that is Jesus and his Word? Exactly. And the revelation of his Word, that’s the truth. Yep. That informs what’s inside of us. Yeah. And it’s very easy to start making up stories in our head and go down these different paths where I feel this, therefore it must be true.

And suddenly, you start running with that and you create this whole web in your mind of why this person doesn’t like you or why you’re always going to fail or why your anxiety is saying you can’t do this and why it’s right. And none of that may actually be real and true. And so, one of the things that we’ll have people do at times is to recognize what are the stories that they’re weaving?

And then, what is actually factual? Like what could be proven in a court of law? And again, that helps the person step outside of that web that they’ve woven and realize, okay, this is actually a valid fact. That’s a feeling. And even though I’m feeling that way, that’s maybe not going to last forever. That’s not really true. And so, you start to separate out what’s real and what’s fiction. And some of that comes, I think, I mean, we have the terms, pessimism or optimism, right? Are you a glass half full or half empty type of person?

I think that’s what you’re talking about that say left on my own I can inflate things or deflate things. Yeah. Because the error can be made in both directions. Right. Well, and some of us have pretty good imaginations. Yeah. And so, for some of us, it’s not a hard stretch to start going down some of these paths. Yeah. It’s amazing where your mind will take you when you get a certain look from somebody.

And if you let your mind just run, depending on whether you’re more optimistic or pessimistic, you can make up quite a story. That’s meant quite a lot. Exactly. Right. And, it may not have, and usually doesn’t have, any basis in reality or what the facts actually are. To think that we’re the reason why that look happened is a pretty big stretch, you know?

Yeah. Another thing that comes to mind, Matt, is just the reality that when we start at that high level, being able to identify the emotions that we feel, the reality is that almost with every emotion, there’s a natural action that comes with that emotion. So, for example, if you’re scared. You would maybe run away, right?

So, those actions that come along with those emotions are certainly very helpful. But then there are also times when that emotion may not fit and we need to do what’s called the opposite action. So, if we walk into church and we feel the emotion of fear and that’s telling us to leave, to be able to bring our minds online and be able to say, okay, my emotion is saying that this is scary or a fearful thing, but I know this is a safe place.

So, the opposite action says I’m going to actually step forward to this thing rather than the natural response of just turning around and getting back in my car. Yep. So, another example would be when you’re feeling really lonely and everything within you is saying withdraw. Yeah. I don’t want to go to the social event, even though I know my friends are going to be there and they’re looking for me to come and I know it will be helpful.

And I just don’t want to go. And so being able to push through that as doing the opposite action instead of what feels good of withdrawing and maybe staying on the couch that night, but rather pushing in and going to the event, socializing and hopefully feeling more connected by the end of the evening.

Yeah. It’s another example of opposite action. And we’ve already previously made the connection between our thoughts giving rise to feelings and those feelings giving rise to action and you’re really kind of completing the circuit that actions often influence our feelings and thoughts as well.

Is that probably what you’re talking about? Opposite action simply says sometimes we have to jumpstart this, right? Right. And an action is one way to jumpstart the right thinking and the right feeling. That’s exactly right. And I think that brings the tie into as well just as believers were at work called to be ruled by the Scriptures and live according to what they tell us rather than our emotions in the moment. You know, the emotion of anger is an appropriate emotion to have at times, but that doesn’t justify behaving in a way that is hurtful towards somebody else. Both Brian and Amber, I know we like to encourage anybody to use our resources and a lot of them are housed right on our website.

I know that if they went to the website, one of the themes is Hurts and Emotions. I would imagine there would be some resources available there regarding this topic. Any special favorites that you want to mention? So, there is an article on self-calming skills, which references a lot of the things that we’re talking about today and has some handouts attached to it.

I think it’s an article that Ted put together. And so again, you can search on our website to find specific resources like this one or you could probably search self-calming skills and it will surface quite quickly. I guess another one that comes to mind as she’s sharing there is I know Kaleb Beyer and I did a Joy in the Journey podcast that was quite a while ago, and it has some skills as well that are a little different than we talked about today and are packaged in a little different way.

That might be another resource, and I remember that well and providing some help on how dealing with complexity and difficulty while at the same time navigating life, not allowing that to rule you, I think was some of what that was about. So. As always, thanks, Brian and Amber, for sharing your expertise with us.

We appreciate the information shared and the help provided here. And to you, our listeners, thanks for coming along. Thank you for your gift of time, and we trust and pray that this has been time well spent for you. As always, we direct you to our website at accounseling.org for some of the resources mentioned.

Have a good day.