Living in an Offensive World Podcast Episode

A wounded spirit that’s not taken care of well or biblically goes into bitterness, which then moves into anger, which then moves into insubordination, which then moves into the ultimate rebellion. Rebellion against the rightful place of God in my life and rightful place of other people in my life. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

Excellent as always to have you along. Craig Stickling is with me. Craig, always glad to have you here. Glad to be here today, Matt. Taking offense seems to be in the culture air that we breathe, okay? And I want to have a conversation about that. In fact, even Christ says it’s impossible, but offenses come. 

Which is a weighty statement. Yeah, certainly. And has implications. And so, we live in an offensive world, and it seems incumbent upon the believer to be able to live in such a world and in such a climate. And we can see what the culture does, they live in it as well, and how they interact with being offended. 

I know you’ve done some thinking on this topic in terms of what offense is and what qualities are required of us in order to live in this world well. But anyway, I have certainly been offended. Yeah. And I have certainly offended Matt, so I have perspective as well on this topic. 

Maybe that’s where you start to recognize that we are the recipients, but as you said, also we contribute to this. Yeah. And I think culture and society certainly have opened up the narrative that not only should you respond, you have the freedom to do it however you wish, and that’s just an interesting narrative in today’s world. 

Wait, say that a little slower like the freedom to do what you wish? Freedom to respond, the freedom to lash out, the freedom to hold anger, the freedom to allow how much I disagree with you. So, what I hear you saying, Craig, is that certain rights are given to the offended. 

Yeah. That’s a little bit about the culture that we breathe. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And I don’t know if there’s anything new under the sun, Matt, but we certainly see it in today’s culture, don’t we? Yeah. And technology grants even a greater window of audience for people to respond. Yeah. That’s really fascinating, and actually I saw somebody making this comment where some of our backlash to being offended is sometimes out of proportion to what the offense is. 

It’s almost like the offense is deeper than just what we see at the surface. Yeah. Certainly. It goes much deeper. And I think there’s an interesting discussion about when someone gets offended, what triggers them? And are they just big things? Are they small things? Does it even matter? 

If I’m emotionally responsive, then I just follow where my emotion takes me, and there isn’t much discernment that gets woven into this anymore? To be reflective on the nature of the offense against me. Yeah. You’re really asking us to do some thoughtful introspection about the nature of the offense, the depth of the offense, the spectrum that the offense is on. 

Let’s start maybe with some definitions. Sure. Because not all offenses are equal. Yeah. And perhaps we throw that word out, “That offends me,” or, “I’m offended,” or “I take offense to that.” And maybe some definitional work would be good. Let’s start with maybe looking at two camps. 

One goes into that we’re going to make mistakes and errors and irritants, those things that are poor choices that happen. They’re just part of everyday life and, “Oh, I forgot to get this,” right? Or “My wife asked me and I forgot.” And there’ll be things that will happen like that, that are just pieces of living in this world, and that’s not what we’re talking about when we look at this definition of offense. We’re talking about something that really is moving more into hurtful intentions, words, and actions, even things that can be major harm, major sin that impacts someone’s life. 

And those can fall into that more that tougher offended language, I think, in the sense when the Bible uses it, it’s talking about to make angrier, to affront, even to cause a falling away or to sin. So that stretches into some pretty hard language. Yeah. 

So, a stumbling block, I think, is a term that can be used. Even in the way that we use an offense in a game, for example. Yeah. You have an offense and a defense, right? Yeah. And the offense is pretty objective, and it is face-to-face against and directed. Right? And so, to think about this word offensive, while it can be accidental, it certainly is directed and we feel it. 

Yeah. There’s a neat piece of that word, or at least an interesting piece of that word offense that gets broken down from the Greek, and it calls it skandalon. And that’s a such an interesting word picture because it’s describing a trap, and it’s describing the bait stick that holds the bait. 

It’s not the bait. It’s not the trap. But offense is that thing that is holding what can be this trigger to happen. It’s almost like the motive or the intention. Yeah. The word that I think that plays on is scandalous. It is the actual scandal. Yeah. Which I think is fascinating because I think you’re right. Whenever you talk about a scandal it’s not the bait necessarily or the trap. It’s the why. It’s underneath the whole thing. And that gives me a picture that I can see a trap, and I can see this tempting bait to step into, but it’s also a reminder that we don’t have to take the bait. 

We don’t have to always respond. And so, the offense is going to be, “I am here. You choose to do with it what you wish. I will be here.” But I love that we can have a choice sometimes. We don’t have to take that bait and step into that narrative of how I respond to someone or how I set up something that could be harmful or hurtful to someone else. 

Okay, so now you’re really moving into our response and perhaps responsibility on how to live in an offensive world. And I want to linger with this. As I think about different categories and about how people deal with living in an offensive world, I think of a couple of things. There is a sense where we try to control our circumstances and surroundings, and that is to disallow offense. Certain things are not allowed. Certain words are not allowed to be used. We’re corrective in this. Don’t do this, that is offensive. We try to control, right? 

That’s one category. Another category is when offense happens, there is a punishment, perhaps a big word right now is cancellation of an offender, right? There is swift retribution to that, and that’s one way that we manage this offensive world, right? Another one is when offense happens, there is this being able to shed the hurt. 

What I hear you say really falls into that third category of what responsibility and agency do we have as being offended? And then finally, this fourth one is, don’t allow yourself to be offended, right? It’s almost like the offense doesn’t stick. 

Which I think is another fascinating category to think about. So, take any of those four, Craig, and what insights do you have as you think about this? Yeah. Even the verse that you mentioned is as discouraging as it is encouraging when Jesus said, “It’s going to be impossible for you to go through life and not have to navigate through some of these things.” 

So, appreciating the reality of that and also acknowledging that our human nature can be very easy to step into that hurt or that apology or that upsets me, but also to recognize the spiritual component here that Satan loves destroying. He loves being a thief. He loves stealing away people’s opportunity to be in a good relationship or to have care for one another, and that he is at play sometimes in this as well. 

Now I’m perceiving that is an important key in how we live in an offensive world, and that is seeing who the scandalous one is. I love that scandal. I think that’s a real key here. What we really rebuff against is the scandal above the bait and the mechanism. 

It’s the scandal. That’s what is really offensive. And you have just said here, having a perspective, understanding that it’s almost this uncoupling of Satan and his work and those he uses, his agents. Which could be my neighbor, could be people close to me or far away, right? Yeah. And we often attribute all of that to people. But what I’m hearing is part of this is seeing Satan for who he is. And what his goal is, Matt, right? Wounded spirits, that can happen. We get wounded. I think when Jesus was talking about that offense, they’re going to happen. 

We will have things happen that will wound us, whether intentional or unintentional, and yet then there’s a progression for that wounded spirit. I appreciate how the Bible talks about the root of bitterness. A wounded spirit that’s not taken care of well or biblically goes into bitterness, which then moves into anger, which then moves into insubordination, which then moves into the ultimate rebellion against the rightful place of God in my life and rightful place of other people in my life. 

All right. Now there’s a lot there. You have really spelled out a progression that happens when we don’t handle the hurt well. Yeah. So, it is incumbent upon us as believers to learn how to handle the offense. It is going to come but it does lie within us to be able to process. And this is where I want you to help me out. What does that look like so that we don’t become a victim of the scandal, but a victim of our inability to process the hurt? You see that? Yeah. Fill that space out. Paul speaks into this a couple of different places. 

First of all, he was talking to Timothy about enduring the hardness, right? He reminded Timothy to be trained, to be ready, to be a soldier, to know what you’re dealing with. And so, I love that. It wasn’t just this random sit back and it’ll happen, but he was encouraging Timothy to be a soldier and to endure the hard piece. And then he steps into and speaks about this in Acts 24. 

He says, “Herein do I exercise myself to always have a conscience void of offense toward God and toward men.” So, Paul is speaking into this, “I exercise myself.” So, we now get another layer here of Paul saying, “All right, so here’s what we’re going to do with this.” But why do we exercise, Matt? 

And what does it mean to exercise myself to not live in this offensive, always being receptive to always having an offense on the ledger. Yes. That’s what I hear you say there. What does void of offense mean? It means not having it on my ledger, which sometimes we like to keep offenses on the ledger. 

Yes. Actually, this offense is going to be really helpful for me. Yeah. Because I’m going to be able to get leverage later with this person because you know what? They owe me. Yeah. We tend not to clear that and so speak to clearing. How are we void of offense in an offensive world? 

I think Paul speaks about that when he says to exercise myself, I think he’s asking us to remember a few things, and one is the power of relationships, right? Who has the potential to offend me more? The random person at Walmart who cuts in front of me in the line that we’re just getting there at the end? Or a random person at work who just comes through and has a bad day? Or is it that person at church or the couple we’re in potluck with or that minister said something, and I think they were talking to me, or my spouse forgetting to do or say something? 

And those people who are closest to us, especially in that relational church setting, there’s a much higher expectation there, isn’t there? Yeah. Oh, I think you’re absolutely right. Again, a scandal is most scandalous when it’s most surprising and when it’s somebody that is out of character, right? 

And I think you’re absolutely right. It’s those who are the closest. I hold the biggest potential for offense in my wife, Rebecca’s world. I hold the cards. I can do the biggest damage to her much more than, as you mentioned, some random person. Whoa. 

Yeah. I think that’s important for us to recognize, Craig, that we have this power. And we also are fallen and recognize that offenses are going to come. “Woe unto them through whom they come,” I think is how Christ continues that. Yeah. Let’s key in on this exercise thing. 

Yeah. What do I exercise? I think that’s a really optimistic idea that there is an exercise that builds muscles to be void of offense. Yeah. I think part of this exercise, I appreciate how David said in the Psalms, one thing that he talked about was that, “I’m going to behave myself.” He spoke about those who regarded evil for me to the spoiling of my soul, but he goes, “But as for me, when they were sick and my clothing was sackcloth, I humbled my soul with fasting, and my prayer returned into my own bosom. 

I behaved as though he had been my friend or my brother. I bowed down heavily as one that mourneth for his mother.” I love that mindset that David has here. He says, “I’m going to behave myself as if they were a friend or even in that relationship of mourning.” And so sometimes I think he’s reminding us, “I may not feel like doing the right thing but I’m going to behave in the right way.” And to be willing to step into that. Sometimes that’s where I can abide in, and if I’m able to repeat some of those, “Okay, here’s how I know how God wants me to act and to respond,” I just appreciate the reminder that David speaks into. 

Exercising peace may not always be what I feel like doing at that moment. Yeah. Okay. That’s a really interesting psalm. Is he really reminding himself who the offender is, which said another way, is he reminding himself who the offender is not? Is that part of pulling the poison from the scandal to make the offender less scandalous “This is my beloved wife.” 

Yeah. “This is my child.” Yeah. This is a son or daughter of God who has acted poorly who has perhaps offended me. But it is these I don’t know. That’s a far cry difference in saying, “This is my enemy. This is the one who hates me.”  

You see how that sends you in a different direction? Oh, and when we’re in offended mode whereas God is saying give and give. “Give into the reminder that I will be with you, that I will be your strength. Give into trusting me.” Whereas when we’re offended, we go into protection mode, right? 

I have to protect myself. A betrayal coming out of that offended mindset is a huge struggle to overcome because it’s just going to put me in my little wall, and I’m going to just lock all the doors, and I’m going to protect. Nothing much healthy happens in exercising myself when I have completely shut everything and everyone else out. 

And so, the alternative is not protecting ourselves, but finding something in God. Say more about that. Yeah. What does that exercise look like with God in context of our offense? And to share that, I’ll put on my counselor hat for a moment. Sometimes we have to have a healthy boundary with individuals or a certain person who’s just really having a difficult time in how they’re acting and responding. And sometimes we talk about a healthy boundary and stepping away or stepping aside from that, not that we don’t love them or pray, but that sometimes a healthy boundary is needed. 

Yeah. And so, I want to keep that in context to this conversation here. But I love thinking about that, Matt. Okay, so what does God want me to do with this? I think the first place to start is he used it in a parable of just how thankful are you? Who was forgiven the most, and who was the most thankful? 

And I think one of the big questions in this is that being offended or being upset or having someone hurt me can always do one thing. It can always drive me back to say Oh, Jesus, I love you. You forgave me when I was at my worst, and however I look at what anyone else is doing or has done, I want to always be reminded of that peace, that place where Jesus took that place on the cross for me, and I want to always be reminded to be thankful for that. 

And what that does is it really helps us understand in a couple of different directions. One, understanding that offender, again, in really healthy terms and in terms of their fallenness but also helps me understand myself really healthily. Yeah. That has to be a key to this. 

And that’s such a challenge because at this moment our backs are stiffened against another, and it’s really hard to look inward, doesn’t it? So, the moment poses this challenge. But what I hear you say in this remedy, in remembering the forgiveness of Christ, really turns that back on ourselves. Perhaps I could say, in coming to the conclusion that I’m not much better. 

It’s hard to engage in a fight when you recognize that I’m not much better. Yeah. It’s hard to fight with someone when we agree, right? Yeah. Oh, your struggle or challenge might just be different than mine, there’s a piece of that how does God see us, and to be reminded of that, but then to not just be stuck with that and to be like, “Oh, I can’t do anything,” or, there’s nothing that can be redeemed out of that. 

I love the beauty where God is always calling us into, “No, this is how you live in an offending world, in offense. This is how you live in a world that is broken. These are some things that I ask you to be able to do.” And certainly, as we recognize Jesus’ love for us. 

But then how do we show that love? How do we love our enemies? How do we have some of Corinthians 13, “Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth?” How do we endure in that scenario when people or things around us just seem to be in such a fired-up offensive mode? Yeah. 

And I like how you’ve really caged this conversation in learning how to live in an offensive world, and certainly we have Christ as an example of that. I think he so much has modeled just exactly what you’re saying in the sense of how did he respond? So, let’s take some of that one at a time. 

What are some of the things that come to you as you think about what Christ has modeled in living in his offensive world, which was quite extreme. I appreciate Jesus was so good. There’s a comment that says, “Seek first to understand, then to be understood.” 

Jesus, often in the face of those who were the maddest at him he usually asked them a question. So, I think that’s a good step for us to think about. If there’s just conflict, tension, something, to be able to ask gentle questions and to help me understand, help me to see more. You shared about this. “Help me to understand. I don’t know if I have that perspective. Can you help me understand?” And I think just gently asking for information, seeking to understand certainly is a way to move forward in a beginning sense possessing humility. Yeah. Not coming in protection mode, not coming in an I’m right, this is a debate that I have to solve mode. 

I think that’s the narrative of the world, right? With any conversation and differences, there always has to be a winner and a loser, and it seems like until I’ve beat you into submission with my beautiful articulation skills and dialogue skills, we lose. And I think there’s much more that comes out of just being able to let me hear your heart. 

Let me be willing to hear your heart. Yeah. And I think that Kirby Reuter mentioned in a previous podcast not long ago how he was so struck that Christ never felt threatened. That’s not the posture, that’s not what we see in Christ as he engaged with very offensive people. You never get a sense that he goes into protective mode, that he goes into saving himself, he goes into threat mode. 

And that’s quite a tall order, isn’t it? And a mark of the Holy Spirit is that we would live in such a way that we don’t feel threatened, necessarily. Because when we feel threatened, that shifts a lot in our minds and hearts, doesn’t it? And it takes us into protect mode, right? And when I’m in protect mode, I’m shutting out other people from their rightful place. 

It may be in my heart or in my relationships. So, to be able to step into when Jesus spoke about loving your neighbor and praying for those who despitefully use you. Isn’t that a phrase that fits in today’s culture? So, then he calls us to pray for them, and then he goes even farther and says, “Do good unto them.” 

So, he’s given us this template of how we’re able to navigate some of the hurt that we’ve had, but in a way that brings glory to him and ultimately frees ourselves, right? It frees us when we release that to Him. To say that’s countercultural is actually an understatement. It’s just counter to our nature. Yeah. Isn’t it? Oh, absolutely. It requires an understanding that is very foreign to our nature? What would that understanding be? How would you put that understanding into words? My mind goes to the fruit of the Spirit. He’s giving us this desire of, “This is what a believer in Me will produce. 

When you’re rooted in me and when you’re growing in me, this is the fruit that will come out of that.” And then the narrative to that is how we respond to those that aren’t growing fruit or they’re not connected in that way, and that’s so different to them. That’s so different to their response way, but we are able to share and to model a more excellent way. 

This is a way of how we can respond even in hard things, even in hard times. I think that living in an offensive world should probably bring Jesus very nearby. What I see in the culture is we have a good understanding of offense. It’s very real to us, and atonement is very much desired, and we grasp for that atonement in lots of ways that don’t bring atonement. 

Which we see quintessential in Christ. Isn’t that interesting? Yeah. And so, you have brought us back to Jesus, and I think you’re spot on. Our offensive world should be bringing us to him. As it reveals our own hearts, and as we acknowledge what he has done for us and his forgiveness to me, and then as my narrative, my response, the antidote to an angry, offended world is the gift of forgiving, and that I desire to be able to be forgiving. 

And the more forgiving I am, does that decrease how offendable I am as well? Yeah. Am I right that passage about offenses come Christ says woe to the offender? Does he go into talking about forgiveness? Does that immediately follow that? He speaks into that, the challenge of that, right? And even engaging with people about speaking to them and, he speaks about the person’s response of repentance or not, but then there’s forgiveness that is a significant element of that. 

Is that where he speaks about if a person sins against you seven times? Yeah. That’s in there. He speaks into that piece. Okay. And that triangulates with the Lord’s Prayer. There in that section where he says, you know, “Give us our bread,” which is a daily thing. 

Yeah. When you pray, “Give us today our daily bread,” we’re talking about something daily here. I’m going to need you to intervene daily. And then he goes into, “Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors.” Yeah. I think we have to adopt the daily nature. I think what he’s talking about is what we need daily. 

I need to have forgiveness to be a daily part of my breathing in and out. I don’t know. I’m just struck in this moment, Craig, to see one of the conditions of a believer I’m going to suggest based on this Scripture is that we breathe in and out. Forgiveness is a part of our daily existence. Yeah. 

I think when they talk about exercising, that’s not, “Oh, I do that once a month or once a year.” Yeah. It gets back to when Paul’s saying, “I exercise myself to have that conscience that’s going to be void of the offense.” And so, what you’re saying, Matt, I think gets back to what Paul’s saying. 

Yeah. That’s exercise. Yeah. That is something that I need to be doing, that I need to be putting on every morning as I prepare for my day. And when we do that as a regular exercise of breathing in and out, we keep the ledger of offense clear, don’t we? Yeah. If I wake up every morning and I know that I am on a battleship and that my battleship has a purpose and that there are very specific things that you do on a battleship as opposed to a cruise ship. 

And I wonder sometimes in my spiritual life if I’d rather think about just being on the cruise ship where everyone takes care of me. I’m a consumer, they fulfill my needs. It is easier to be a victim when all these nice things aren’t happening to me, as opposed to that exercising myself to be like, “But if I’m on a battleship, I know exactly what the purpose is and the role and the mission,” and that just helps my mind be ready for whatever will come. 

And Paul carries that metaphor to Timothy and talks about a good soldier of Jesus Christ not entangling himself in the affairs of this world. It’s almost don’t take the snare and don’t get consumed in the scandal. Yeah. Craig, this has really been excellent. There’s so much more that can be said. So much more. But my brain is full, and I think I just need to marinate on what’s been said is all. Thanks a lot for your participation. God bless you, each one as we all together work on this. In fact, the Lord’s Prayer does that. It’s a collective prayer of us and our God. May he bring this about in us. May we breathe in and out the forgiveness to others as we have been forgiven and live well in an offensive world. Thank you, each one. Thank you, Matt.