The Benefits of Laughter Podcast

When we step back, when we realize how odd we all are and people who, well, you said we, I was mainly wondering Ted. Oh, I was gonna leave it go. But , okay. But we are a strange lot. He was gonna say how weird Ted was, but he thought, no, let it go. 

Welcome, everyone, to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. It’s excellent to have you along. Today I’ve put more in the studio than what I’m used to. We’re all squeezing in here together. Brian, Ted, Kathy, Kaleb, we’re all here together. Yes. Welcome, everyone. 

Thanks. Thanks. You know, there are few things as a father, that I enjoy more than hearing my kids laugh. It’s really fun. From, the youngest baby, I think we all remember, you know, our infants, all of a sudden laughing, and that’s a marker in their life, to our teens, which is so much fun to listen to. 

So, with that as the backdrop, I would have to believe that God, our Father, likes to hear laughter. In this place we deal with a lot of heavy things, so I wanted to change it up a little bit and really talk about that emotion. Is it emotion? I don’t even know. So that’s where I quickly defer to the professionals here on what in the world laughter is. 

But as they say, laughter is the best medicine. What is laughter? It is as physical as crying is physical. So, I’m interested in how you would unpack that. So, would you say then that laughter is to joyfulness as crying is to sadness? Is that fair? Yeah. I think there’s a lot of correlation there and I think the other thing there is that what you talked about with spontaneity. I think a really important part is the punchline that you wait for in a joke. 

With little children, it’s often times the surprise. It’s the pop goes the weasel. It’s the peek a boo. It’s that thing. And often times, jokes or things that we find funny have like a little twist to them that like catch us and they’ll catch us either because we’re surprised by it or because it’s so true to life that it kind of like rings something in us and we go, oh yeah, and so it pulls that out. 

I would say even that brings out neat purpose. It’s really grounding in a way. Now, I know, Kathy, you’ve talked about grounding and the discipline of grounding. When a person is laughing, they’re very grounded in a particular moment. Typically, it’s happening in process. And I think in that regard, then, you do have to be plugged into the moment because you have an expectation that doesn’t get met in a good way. 

And then it gives rise to this. Delight and joy and in that, where there’s opportunity, especially relational opportunity, laughter, which is just really sweet. And sometimes laughter is a welcomed break in tense situations, like if a situation is really nerve wracking or there’s a lot of tension, and the ability to bring laughter in just helps shift that mood all around. 

One of the best parts of laughter is that there’s a connection after it. Like, that two people that have experienced this have something that they’ve experienced and that it’s actually drawing. Laughter is so relational. When I experience something funny, it’s a very communal experience. I really want to share that. 

How many times do we say, oh, I’ve got a great joke, or I’ve got something really funny that happened to me and we want to bring others into it. It’s beautifully relational. Yeah. It’s part of the reason, too, why we get frustrated when we tell a joke to somebody, like if Brian told me a joke and it was really funny to me, and then I tell the joke to Kaleb, and then I have to explain it, and he doesn’t get it, like, that would happen a lot. 

That would be terrible. We assume that with Kaleb. And not really, but it’s good. It’s great here. But I think one of the things is you’re trying to recreate that moment that you had, like Brian told me it was so funny. I want to tell you, and then you don’t get it. 

And, well, that’s not funny. You had to be there and it falls flat and you’re just trying to recreate a moment of specialness. And it is something that’s so contagious. You’re in church and my son is with his buddy and when you start giggling and you’re trying to stop, it’s an impossible feat once that gets going and it’s so fun for them, but everybody else is like, but when you’re in it, it is so connecting and so fun. 

And as soon as one person gets quieted down, the next person, you see the shoulders start to move and you’re done for. And you want to join, like when you hear others in it, and you’re out, you want to join in with it, whether it’s down the hall or in the other room. I want to step into that and understand what was happening, what was going on to be part of that. 

And it’s such a tricky thing. Sometimes we feel, oh, it’s inappropriate to laugh or I would like to participate, but I can’t, or I shouldn’t. And sometimes the mind just has a really hard time making sense of that. But certainly, we would just see a lot of value in laughter. And certainly, there’s times where laughter isn’t appropriate, but man, when it is, when it’s genuine and sweet and brings connection, it is a beautiful thing. 

Yeah. Kathy, we’re all looking at you for something profound. Go ahead. No pressure. Just tell a joke. Yeah, yeah. Two elders walked into my room. Oh, yes. Go ahead. 

I have nothing profound at this moment. Yeah. You know, let’s go back to Kathy, your comment about it cutting tension or cutting a difficult moment. Yeah. I mean, with all seriousness, this agency, a lot of brokenness that goes through its doors every day. Very, very heavy topics and every single topic and matter and issue is very serious to us and we’re very thoughtful about it. But yet at lunchtime, I think people might be surprised to know how much laughing happens. Speak to how pain and laughter mingle together, Brian. 

Yeah. One of the things in that mingling I think is when you can get lost in all of the difficulty, I think there’s a tendency for fear and dread to really increase. And in that, if there’s not a space or the freedom to also invite laughter and happiness into that, I think it’s overwhelming, and it can destroy you. But I think the way God’s created us to be able to live and experience the spectrum of emotions, and when we do that, and we’re allowed for both ends, that produces life, even though sometimes that’s really sad. Laughter can feel like a buffer to some of the heart and pain that happens. Yeah. And it doesn’t minimize the pain, right? No. Well, I think one of the things that we would say is that when it happens, it’s not necessarily exactly a rhythm, but it’s a back and forth. 

Okay, it’s a back and forth, and you see this, like, my grandpa passed away, recently, and as we’re preparing for the funeral and things like that, we would hear about a memory that would just bring tears to somebody’s eyes. And then the next thing we’d be laughing and that back and forth allows a picture of health. 

It just was so special to go back and forth. And I think that’s when you hear laughter here at lunchtime. I think that’s one of the things that’s happening is that we’re connecting with each other. We’re taking a break from some of the heavy and it’s just our own group enjoying each other and cutting some of the tension, those kinds of things. 

I think the flip side is, if there’s a really a sad thing, and I can’t allow myself to feel sad, so I won’t allow myself to feel sad, and so I’ll only allow myself to be distracted the other direction. I can only have this emotion, not that emotion. Versus kind of this back and forth. Yeah, I think it also has a sense or a way of reminding us that we are not in control of some of these like putting ourselves in a proper place with laughter and being able to surrender these important and critical things to God. But at the same time being able to remind ourselves who we are in this story and the broader story that it’s God’s work. So, Kaleb, I really liked how you have processed that personally, a person who walks through a lot of pain and then how I think what you said, take yourself less seriously, you personally, not the situation, but you personally realizing that, oh, I am not the savior and this is in good hands and so it frees you to a level of flexibility that laughter brings. 

Is that a good way to say it? I would love to hear a little bit about that skill set because I think that’s an important skill set for all of us. I think one of the things in a situation, whether you’re talking about a potluck, whether you’re talking about a family situation, I think being able to find the moments of levity and to be able to laugh together, and to be able to be serious together. 

I think what happens is some people have a greater tolerance to jump from one to another. That’s where there’s a little bit of wisdom about the people that you’re around to, especially in spouses and in families because what is funny to one person, what is just even ribbing somebody, they did something and you just really got them, somehow that person might think that was hilarious and they took it just fine. 

And the next person is like, you embarrassed me in front of the whole group. Right. I think one of the skill sets that kind of strikes me in the midst of being able to, to laugh, even in the midst of the reality that there are really heavy things is that for some of us, it’s a little bit easier to leave something that’s not resolved where for some, that we get in this place of until this thing, this big thing gets resolved or figured out, that is all that can consume. 

Whereas the skill set to be able to say, okay, you know what? I don’t know that this is going to get figured out. I don’t know that there is even a solution here and I can step over into this other topic or this other thing and enjoy this while this continues to sit here. And then I can go back to it. 

That can be a tricky dance, but I think a really important one, but it’s a mindset from what I hear. Yeah. And I think that part about some people would feel like if something is heavy and unresolved, to joke while that is unresolved feels disrespectful or inappropriate or inappropriately timed, where somebody else is like going, it’s cutting the tension, it is helping us cope, and things of that nature. 

Yeah. I would love to hear your thoughts on how God views laughter. How we’ve used mirth, I think sometimes we can, anyway I don’t want to cage this too much, but sometimes I think we wonder is God okay with me laughing in this moment, right? Well, I think part of that comes down to the word that you just used where in the King James version, the word for laughter is used as mirth and a lot of people read the word mirth and don’t know what it means. And so, therefore, don’t even know that laughter is actually mentioned in the Bible. And so, I think that’s important just to start there. Yeah. And in that, like it certainly does, it shapes your view of God and like if you see that as something that’s off limits or okay, or even maybe invited to you and celebrated and part of who he is, part of his design that changes the picture pretty significantly.  

Oh, yeah. And I think too, if I think of laughter in that way, I think of joy. And I think that joy is definitely an important attribute of a Christian. I know the verse that says the joy of the Lord is your strength. And I think that kind of Matt, in my mind, that is how I think about how God thinks of laughter and even thinking of Jesus welcoming the little children to come unto me. I can’t imagine that he didn’t at some level engage in laughter with them because as we think about laughter, kids are a great place to teach us about laughter and being able to laugh together. And so even in his presence here, in the way that he walked and engaged in being present, in the midst of some really hard things, he would welcome, like, let the little children come unto me. 

And, you know, I imagine them sitting on his lap or, and how could he not, you know, be laughing and engaging in a playful way? He would not have had a following of children. Yeah. Right. And even the sense of, like, in the Garden of Eden when he created it and the sense of delight and enjoyment, just being a part, I know that isn’t completely laughter in a sense. 

There is a sense of, like, just enjoyment in and pleasure that is kind of a part of that. I think you’re hitting on something out there that’s really important, and that is that God designed and created pleasure, and he created delight, and he created joy, and he created these things that, when we think about the things  like the seriousness of the fall, when we think about sin and the outcome of sin in life and to think about the fact that there is a heaven and a hell and how serious that is, it sometimes makes it so that we forget the purity of God’s design for pleasure and for joy and things of that nature. And we think about it like this in heaven, there’s going to be these things, but we accidentally, I think we’ve whitewashed it so that it’s a little bit like it’s going to be an eternal somber playing a harp. And if Brian was playing a harp for me, I mean, gee whiz, can you imagine? Hey, I mean, you know, I’m sure things are going to look different than I anticipate.  

So, you never know. But it’s amazing when you even just think about creation as it is underneath the curse and how pervasive that was. And yet how unnecessarily amazing and delightful things are. Like as you go on a walk, it doesn’t even have to be, I mean, you can do it in Michigan, but you know, actually Michigan, that’s a poor pick. Kansas. Yeah, exactly. There’s nothing in Kansas. Yeah. Tumbleweed. Exactly. There’s tumbleweed in Kansas. Isn’t that right? I was going to say the Flintstones. Not Utah, we’re talking about here. 

 Well, Brian, I appreciate you mentioned taking a walk and those types of things. I mean, certainly the narrative of the Bible is about death and life, right? I mean, that would be one arc, right? It’s all about life and living and really what we’re talking about here is a key aspect to living. 

And I don’t even know how to put into words, but I’ve been just thinking a lot lately on Matt, be sure to live today. Good grief, that’s what God put you here for, right? And we can very much say, okay, don’t do this, and don’t do that, and stop this, and fix that, and all of that. That’s an aspect of living. 

But I think I might find good positive emotion if I just lived. But I do think there is something really powerful, and if we go through life and it’s just the thou shalt not, That it does get really hard to invite joy and laughter into that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And that’s important, right? The thou shalt nots are really important, but if that’s all it is, you know, I miss the kid doing something silly in Walmart that maybe is driving mom crazy, but it’s kind of funny to observe. 

We have the death of Christ. We have the burial of Christ. We also have resurrection. And we have power and he says that he came that we might have life and have it more abundantly Each of you have mentioned it in different ways. I mean he could have made food taste like nothing. He could have made scenery that was completely black and white. 

Who knows? I mean, just think of all the things that have so much variety, opportunity, beauty. Yeah. And even reading in John 15 this morning, at the end of that word, Christ’s commandment to us is to love each other. And if we’re gonna love each other like that, that requires positive emotion. I think not solely, but certainly, and then the byproduct of those relational interactions that are fueled by love and motivated by love are going to no doubt bring laughter on the other side of it. Yeah. When people are working together and whether it’s an office or whether you’re working on a project at home and somebody spills something. Let’s say, okay, you’ve got spilled milk, you’ve got a dumped over canister. 

There are so many different ways that that can be resolved. Sometimes it’s anger, right? People are angry that it happened. But there is sometimes the opportunity to laugh and, oh, you dumped that over? I’m the king of dumping over milk. And there’s a way that it can be used to diffuse and have some common humanity between people. 

And I think part of it is being able to poke fun at ourselves. And I think when that is done the best is when the person or the people that have the most power in the room or the most authority most influence are able to do that it just allows a nice diffusion and a common humanity that that can actually, I think, neutralize shame instead of pointing it out. In that moment you give permission to be human. 

Yeah. It’s a huge deal and sharing the experience. Yeah, exactly. How many terrible moments in our life do we look back and laugh about? They become the funniest stories that mark our lives. Not every difficult story is that but there are moments whether it’s a blown tire on the road that totally messes up your day, up ends it completely, puts you at the that, you know, the day could not have gone worse Yeah, and then all of a sudden that’s the story that rides the distance and it’s great. 

Yeah. There’s got to be something said here about the healing of humor, right? Oh, yeah, Definitely. Sometimes the turnaround time between when that can be funny, is pretty fast, and sometimes it takes time. Okay? You know? And, because sometimes if you tell somebody, you’ll laugh about this someday. 

Yeah. It might just get fixed. Exactly right. Oh, you’ll find this funny. Even if you’re right. Yes, yes. And it’s like, it’s not funny now. So, there is a timing element to the whole thing. Well, there’s a ton of timing and humor. Oh, everything. There is an element of humor that I think really rides on truth. 

I think we spoke a little bit to the unexpected surprise, the twist in the matter that all of a sudden, oh, this is the real thing and not that, but even hearkening to the old days of a court jester, right? Who would through humor, speak to truths in that culture, speak to truths in that reality. 

Sometimes we can stomach truth easier through humor than straight out. It’s not uncommon, Ang will be scrolling through Instagram and there’s this, I don’t know if she follows them, this meme or saying about teenagers and it just connects to like things about them that is so humorous because it’s so true. 

And on one hand, it frustrates us. Yeah. Being able to laugh about that truth. And it’s like, Kaleb you have a little bit more bandwidth for the socks on the floor. Yes, totally. Totally. Yes. Yeah, it’s amazing. Yeah, it is really something that speaks to what Kaleb mentioned earlier too, that it can help us just not take ourselves so seriously when we step back and we realize how odd we all are whether it’s as a family or a people group. 

You, I was wondering, Ted. Oh, I was gonna leave it go. But okay. Alright. But we are strange lot. He was gonna say how weird Ted was, but he thought, no. I’ll say we, Brian, that if we miss that, oh my goodness, we miss a lot. I think. Yeah, sure. And there’s a level of like, it seems just as I think about at ACCFS there’s a level of safety to know where this humor is coming from. 

Like when you don’t have that in relationships, it’s easy to maybe take it more personal or take it in a direction it wasn’t intended. Yeah, sure. Right. And the context of you know the team or the group and having a level of safety there that they love you. Back to what you were saying, Brian, and that this is coming from a place of actually appreciation and care that then leads to connection. 

I think it is important and then that it comes to from a place of a lot of trust and we’ve known each other and at times too with humor, you are going to overstep and to be able to recognize, oh, and to be able to apologize and come back and repair, but for humor to continue to flourish, like honesty also has to be there, right? And seriousness that both of those are required. You can’t just have laughter without trust and relationship.  

Well, I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. Thanks for the laughs and the content. I think, listeners, you were able to detect the level of pleasure and enjoyment and it’s healthy. I think what’s been shared here really nicely. It helps us see, and we’re not surprised, that God would have it that way. Right? You know, I thought, Brian, as you talked about the don’ts. We don’t take don’ts very well, the Ten Commandments and whatnot, but suppose those don’ts define a beautiful space to live. And that’s really what it does, doesn’t it? It defines a beautiful space to live. And, in that beautiful space includes laughter, joy, mirth, as we’ve mentioned here. We’ve seen relational benefit, emotional benefit, mental benefit, in a lot of ways. So, thanks each one for listening in. 

I hope this was delightful.