Mental Health and the Church: The AC Story Podcast Episode

For quite a while now, the statistic that you will find is that in the United States, 20% of the population have a diagnosable mental health condition at any given time. I want you to just say to yourself, okay, but I don’t agree with 20%. I think that’s way too high. So, let’s just go with 10%. Now take a church of a hundred. Now take a church of 300. Now take a church of 400. Okay? And just go with that for a second. There are people who are dealing with things. There’s a person struggling with something.  

We have Ted and Ron back for another round of history. Welcome to both of you. Thanks. Just a few weeks ago, we laid out the history of mental health and how it grew into what we understand it today. We were pretty concentrated on Central Illinois, but that was kind of a microcosm of something larger happening nationwide. And since we’re recording this now a bit later, I’ve had the time to reflect and listen to it again, and all of a sudden, I realized that I missed something. 

So, I want to start right there. So, Dr. Zeller takes the bars off the windows. And he uses them instead to cage animals in a zoo on site. Did I catch this right? It wasn’t just a little meaning in that. Yes. There’s a ton of meaning. Yeah. I was like, how did I miss this? Yeah. Why didn’t I get it? I mean, wow, he was going far beyond. He was making a point and making it strong. Yeah. He saw people. I think that’s the key. The bars had to go because they refuted the personhood of the people behind them.  

Yep. You know, we’re going to tell a little bit more of the story here. Okay. And I think as we left off is where I want to pick up. Ron, you were talking about alcoholism and how that was the first presentation to the Elder Body in the sense of careful thought and reasoning through what it is that they were seeing in individuals. Here in this podcast, I would like to talk a little bit about the history of the Apostolic Christian Church in terms of their growth and awareness of mental health and how they’ve grown into that. 

Obviously, we have some major ministries that have come out of that understanding, The Home for the Handicapped as it was called in in its early days, and ACCFS. And so, yeah, let’s start there. Ron, take us back there. Pick that story up again with alcoholism.  

I want to be clear; I didn’t live in that time. This is looking back historically, but not much after that. So, I think there are a couple pieces. Some of this is conjecture, but I think it’s pretty close to accurate. I think across the board, churches dealt more with alcoholism at the time. Alcoholism stood out. Like, how are these people who are good people who we’ve talked to, they have repented and yet it’s still occurring. So, I think those questions were the first ones to be asked and it made alcoholism the one to stand out and it very much lined up with a time in terms of service history where they were being treated differently. Also, not everybody agrees with this disease model that there’s something going on physically, mentally, and psychologically that’s making this a problem and perhaps there’s an intervention that could match that. And so, I think the church became curious at the same time the rest of society did, and I don’t know if there are today, but there were significant parts of the state hospitalist system which treated alcoholics. 

There were parts of the system like the Elgin State Hospital that we’ll talk about a little bit later. That’s actually where Dick Kilgus began his work in the alcoholism unit. Okay, I want to seize on something. You mentioned as you talked about alcoholism, you mentioned churches trying to figure this out. 

Yeah. And the medical field was trying to figure this out. Those are the two organizations that have been trying to figure this out. The local PTO isn’t trying to figure this out. The local Kiwanis are not trying to figure this out, but churches are. And I think that actually posits today’s conversation very well, because we’re going to be talking about the Apostolic Christian Church. 

Sure. I’m fascinated now why churches would be a stakeholder in mental health. Do you see my question? I would conjecture that initially the church’s interest wasn’t just compassion, but that it was what we are supposed to do with sinful behavior that we don’t understand and maybe doesn’t follow the usual spiritual model. 

What do we do? So, the church was, I think, in some ways pushed into looking at this in another way. I think that’s really excellent. I think this is really healthy. Yeah. Ted, I think the other thing that comes in here is that for churches, the concept and our belief is that God is close to the suffering. 

Okay. And that God gives grace to overcome. So, there’s a concept of spiritual power and the concept of a faith community working together. That what you find is even when you go back to something, whether we’re talking about dealing with alcohol, the very first treatment option was Alcoholics Anonymous which came out of a Christian frame. 

It’s not always used that way today, but it came out of a Christian worldview and things of that nature which is very powerful. But the things that it taught were you have to tell the truth. You have to turn your life over. You have to be accountable to the community. I mean, there are all these different pieces. 

You have to turn yourself out through God, you confess all these things. And so, even with that, you find that you’re telling people to come out of the shadows. Okay. You don’t do it alone. All right. And then you’re also finding the concept that there’s a process of help. It’s not something that you turn a light bulb off. And so, these are all the things going on. I want to linger with this point because I do think it’s somewhat of the concrete that the rest of the conversation rests on. 

As I trace both of your comments to the question, why are churches stakeholders in this? And what I’m hearing is that churches take helping suffering people very seriously. Furthermore, when you’re helping the suffering, you begin to ask some really deep questions. 

Sure. And you find complexity where you were hoping there was simplicity. The church has helped the mental health awareness along. Oh, sure. Because of the fundamental principles of what church does for people and the serious responsibility that a pastor takes when he says, I need to help this person. 

I think about that and now we’re imagining this presentation of alcoholism to the Elder Body that had to come by invitation of a group of men who wanted so badly to help but couldn’t. There were nuances that their hearts were crying for as they wanted to help people. 

Do you think I’m far from the truth? No, I think that’s absolutely true. One of the things I look back on that we don’t reflect on is their sense of humility. Also, they realized they couldn’t help alone. We don’t have the tools we need. 

There’s something more. And so that willingness to step out and say, come and tell us your thoughts about that. Come and explain what the current thinking is and there may be other interventions which are more effective or that can work with ours. So, I think without question that’s accurate. 

Yeah. And let’s let that then be the foundation that we build off here. Because I would like to get into this story of our church and its growing understanding of mental health and what it did about it. So, Ron, you dropped some names early on and what the problems were confronting them that led them to where we’re at today? 

So, the names that I don’t know would be who in the Elder Body leadership initiated. I suppose we could find that if we went back and looked, but they had some awareness. There were people even in the church who were starting to have some exposure and some other ideas. So, when you say exposure and ideas, you’re talking about the professional level. For sure. Okay. So, of the two that were asked, one was a physician, and within that practice would’ve been exposed to alcoholism. Then Dick Kilgus, who actually worked at the Elgin State Hospital, which had an alcoholism program there, meaning inpatient where you went and stayed and they were not people who came and said, we need to tell you, or you need to know. 

It was the Elder Body saying, we want to understand better. Would you come and tell us. Who was the physician? I think it was Walt Gasser. Yeah. Right. And they knew each other and had quite a bit of respect for each other. 

So, it was the Elder Body saying, we need to ask some questions, which is really encouraging to me. Neither of them were forward people saying, you’ve got to go there, you have to do this. They came by invitation. And I remember Joe Braker was asking the same question, Ron, they’ve taught us that alcoholism is a disease. He would’ve been from an era who wouldn’t have started there. 

In that explanation, he shared his migration from the sin of drunkenness to the awareness that there is an addictive piece to it. I never had any sense he diminished the sin but was willing and able to see that there was more needed in terms of intervention. So, I think they did. 

I’m pretty sure they did the first presentation to the Elder Body, which would’ve been on alcoholism, and then one, I think not too much after that, which would have been on schizophrenia. It’s kind of exciting to think of what occurred there. I don’t know that they were as excited at the time, but I remember Dick talking about talking to the elders also about some things related to marriage. 

Do you remember that? No, I don’t. I suspect that it’s true. The way he approached spiritual leadership gave the Elder Body a huge degree of comfort. And one of the pieces which we will come to later when he was ready to propose a counseling service, and if you know him and know the death of his heart, this would’ve been passionate. 

And they said not yet. And his response to that, if they said, not yet, then we need to wait. Yeah. But it was a gift to the church because things didn’t get pushed away, then he could work with them and gain credibility and when the time was right there weren’t those things to overcome. There was a readiness to step in and a high degree of trust. 

Well, I think that’s super neat to talk about and do we want to go to that request for an agency or are there more benchmarks along the journey that you want to share. Well, the next step was appointing this task force called the Mental Health Task Force. I’m not sure if I have the right term.  I thought it was the Mental Health Committee. Yes. I think it was. So, there wasn’t a specific assignment. Was that an elder committee? No, I think there were two elders on it. 

Can you give me a decade? So, it existed in the seventies, and I came into it in the eighties. Okay. That’s helpful. Yeah, so I don’t have exact years there, although I think there may be some pieces there. So, the initial thought was to explore and one of the first things that was done, which is I look back and I think, wow, that was a big deal. 

Wait, a minute. Explore what? Mixed mental health in a broad way. Okay. So, I don’t think there was anything like, what should we do? Or what’s the core of it? It was really just take it and teach us and find out what’s out there. And so, really an expansion as, okay, alcoholism is one thing, schizophrenia is another thing. 

And we’re not so naive to think there’s only two things on the table. Let’s do some research. Is that when they did a survey? The questionnaire that went out, and I’m sure it didn’t go to everybody, but it went to a large number. The response was high, and it asked things like, what are you experiencing within yourself or your family, questions about addictions or depression, those kinds of things. What kind of services have you sought? Where did you get help with those things? And this went to who? It went out to the whole church. Really? Yeah. And if we looked, we could probably find the numbers and I’m sure it had to go through the local church because there would’ve been no other way to disseminate it. 

But the response was very broad. There wasn’t a high resistance to it. Not everybody filled it out because not everybody had an interest. But I remember looking at the data that came in. So, that was a huge awareness piece. So, long before maybe we should have an agency or maybe we should have a hotline, or those pieces was this data. And the data showed that, yep, there are people who need those services and who are accessing those. And I think it showed that while those things were often private, it’s there, it’s real, it’s not unique.  

So, I think one of the things that you have to remember that at a time when this was not talked about. There was a lot of shame attached to struggling in some way out in society. It was a shame in the church, not just ours. But then I want you also to do something. I want you to think about 20%. For quite a while now, the statistic that you will find is that in the United States, one in five have a diagnosable mental health condition at any given time. I want you to just say to yourself, okay, but I don’t agree with 20%. I think that’s way too high. So, let’s just go with 10%. Alright, let’s go with 10%. Okay, one in ten. Now take a church of a hundred. Now take a church of 300. Take a church of 400. 

Okay? And just go with that for a second. There are people who are dealing with things. There’s a person struggling with something. Okay? And that’s real. And if you are in the role of helping people. You can’t ignore this. Oh, that’s a great point. You can’t ignore that. 

So, Ron, pick us back up. Now this committee, they get feedback. They realize that yes, it is present, and people are actively seeking solutions. Yeah, so two things that happened early on with this committee that I think are very significant in terms of the growth within the church. So, one that was established was called the mental health hotline. 

So, there were either five or six sisters. They chose nurses. So, it wasn’t necessarily about their knowledge about mental health. It was about their medical training that taught them how to listen and hear what’s going on and ask them questions. So, the operator who had nothing to do with our church would say, Apostolic Christian hotline, can I help you? 

The person would share whatever information and then they would be referred to whichever sister was on duty. So, they would get that, and they were expected, I think it was within 24 hours to call them back and give some information, primarily referrals. Not only referrals, but primarily referrals. And so, their duty was really to direct them to the next best step. 

So, this happened in conjunction with the development of the national referral database. Okay. Which we still use. Yeah. It wouldn’t resemble it if you looked at it and it was continually updated. So, if there was a situation that happened in Ohio someplace and somebody had used a service, and they came up against a situation with counsel that just didn’t work. They weren’t supportive of the church, or their advice wasn’t biblically based. Then they would get pulled from the database. And the elders were pretty in tune, I think, as somebody sought service, they would share that. And so, they would let that committee know. 

So, this was an ongoing referral database. That’s what the sisters used. So, they would just leaf through their database. There was no such thing as doing this on the computer. Just find the right page, look for what was in that area, and give that information to whoever called. So, this call center was the very first service that our church offered. 

It was the first service, that’s correct. For our membership. But the call center and the referral database, although they’re not one in the same, could not exist without the other. They were very much a part of the same system. And then over time some simple brochures and handouts were created on what is depression, what is anxiety, things of that nature. 

And they would send out brochures. So, education in conjunction with brochures, just explaining alcoholism or bipolar. You know, any of the things we’re currently talking about. We asked each church to send us a tape of any presentation they had on something mental health related. 

And so, we had Loren Stoller with Understanding Depression, which was used incredibly and was very helpful. I think Bob Pflederer did one maybe on marriage. You did one on depression. Yeah, I remember. So, they just came to us, and we would screen those presentations to make sure we were comfortable with them. 

And a set of those tapes went to each church. If I had to guess, maybe about 20 tapes, something like that. And while that sounds very simple in terms of education, in the sense of normalizing and encouraging people to get help, it was a huge, compassionate step forward, that it’s okay if you have this, there’s help out there. We support you in getting help.  

Well, with that extension of education, you’re really taking it not only to servicing those who are struggling, which the survey highlighted, now you are educating the church as a whole and those who are not struggling and have no reason to understand it well, but now they are being asked to understand it, which is now a community expansion. 

Right? Sure. So, somewhere in there, again, I don’t know what the timing was, there was enough interest in a counseling service. That’s when it was presented to the elders. What was the hope? It was to establish a counseling center, very much like this, and have professionals staff it. I think this is also where just looking back you can see God’s hand in things that you can’t see going forward. 

The thing about it, as we’re going along, again, remember what we’re understanding more in the Apostolic Christian Church. So, society is understanding more, other churches are understanding more things of that nature. Remember there was also to this sense that in the 18 hundreds, or you go back further, all the different kinds of things would’ve been thrown together as a mix. 

So, now over time, our church actually starts to be able to develop some of those specializations also. So, you’ve got the Home for the Handicapped, now LifePoints, and we have Gateway Woods. There’s an understanding of broken homes and the needs of those. So, you have these different things emerging in different places. 

There’s an understanding of life and different kinds of needs. We had different brothers and sisters over time who went into the medical field. We had teachers, and as it went from more of an agricultural understanding, we started to have people going into medicine at various times, dentists, and other things. 

So, all that’s emerging, and I think that’s part of the context this is coming up in. We have to remember all this was helping to buoy this as well. Yeah. I would add to that also as the churches move toward missions, the idea that we should serve and teach and not just be here to learn. 

Yeah. So, you mentioned Gateway Woods and LifePoint. Nursing was also a little bit ahead of that but within that same time era and all of that. We started to open up and think of not do we have to do, but what can we do? Where are the opportunities to do that? 

And I suspect some of that also ripened along the way from the first proposal to the second proposal. That would’ve been the late nineties. But I think Gateway Woods actually was the first to put something together and step in and had Gateway Family Services here in Illinois. So, there was a combining of interests or people on that. So, Gateway Woods had some of the staffing on that first, I don’t even think it was called a board initially, but exploratory committee, whatever it was. The actual committee that put the proposal together, Ron Messner and Tim Sauder were named as co-chairs. Other members were Dick Kilgus, Denny Virkler, and Bill Schick. 

Okay. And so, what you had there is LifePoint Mental Health Committee and Gateway Woods. And then you had Jeff, Thames and I as advisory members. I think it’s really helpful because it shows the why. Well, there were differences of opinion about approaching those pieces. There was broad collaboration in terms of moving forward. They brought tremendous gifts. From that came the proposal in 2000 that resulted in us actually starting services. So, there was a readiness, and we would say the Lord prepared the way. But the church was ready and church leadership was ready at that point. It started happening pretty fast. 

Yeah. The other thing, and this does bring up God’s hand in so many of the different things with different people at different times, whether you’re talking about the various roles of boards and elders, but then also people outside the Apostolic Christian Church, that helped us along the way. 

Also, there were people in professional services that came into contact with Apostolic people, developed a love for them, tried to understand and serve them. And so that’s been a really important part of that. And the fact that even as I was coming into the field, I was able to have Ron and Dick help mentor me. 

You know, as an Apostolic Christian young guy coming into this field, it’s not known as a Christian friendly field for sure. And to have mentors and professional mentors that helped me. And then, you know what? Now I get to do that for others. Well, and just even speaking to the partnership, although that might be too strong of a word, or maybe not exactly the right word, but this partnership with non-AC entities has been huge. Right. And I think we should speak into it. So, use names or not because we wouldn’t be where we are today both in terms of your training, internship, and ongoing supervision. Following that, the mentoring and counseling, that supervisory piece, but also down to paper like forms and processes. The Christian mental health community was all willing to partner and help.  

Yeah. And when I was coming into the field, I needed to do an internship and that’s when I contacted Dr. Hammond. He had known Bob Pflederer and Joe Braker and they had talked, and he was trying to understand how to serve the Apostolic Church and that’s when I was able to do an internship with him.  

I’ll never forget the call that I had to him, as I can remember right where I was when I called him and I said, hi, my name’s Ted Witzig and I’m interested in doing an internship. And we were talking, and he said, so what’s your faith background? Or things of that nature? And I said, well, I’m from the Apostolic Christian Church. And there was just dead silence on the phone. And I was like, oh boy, what’s this mean? And anyway. He said, Ted, I have been praying for you for years and years. 

And he said, I did not know that I would ever get to meet you. And he had been working with Apostolics, as well as others in the counseling field here in Central Illinois. And he just felt like that people would be served well if they had someone familiar within the church. He prayed for the Apostolic Christian Church, that the church would raise up people to be able to help in that regard. 

Part of our task was to set up the processes and forms, so we went and asked him about it and asked, hey, can we purchase the forms that you use and help us? We don’t have a business plan or how do we do this? With Dr. Hammond? Yes, with Dr. Hammond. And Dr. Hammond says, no. And it was like, well, this is going to be an awkward lunch. And he said, no, you cannot purchase the forms. But Ted can come in, make any copies or take anything that is needful, that will be helpful to you.  

It’s humbling. It’s an incredible story. It’s humbling when you hear history like this, you recognize how you are the recipient of work, toil, prayers, faithful men and women for decades. 

Yeah. Right. Without question. I mean, even in this moment, we in the church are indebted to God because he orchestrated countless men and women in our church and out of our church. Yeah. And I think when you look at that and you think about the things that came together with the Mental Health Committee, Gateway Woods, and it was Apostolic Christian Counseling Services at that time, in 2000. 

And then as it started to grow between 2000 and 2006, Ron was our administrator, and very part-time counselor because you were full-time at LifePoints. Yeah. I’d see three people on Tuesday evenings. 

Yeah. And then eventually as the Elder Body saw it necessary to bring together Apostolic Christian Counseling Services and Gateway Wood’s Family Services. In 2006, is when we became Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. That was where we had the clinical part but also the outreach and that’s why we have a very long acronym. 

Everybody wants a shorter name but that’s why we got it. It was the blending of those names, and it was necessary at the time. Yeah, it was necessary to show respect and acceptance of the material they had coming in. And so, within the church there were different preferences. Matt, for your knowledge, that was when there was a ton of conflict right? 

Prior to that? Yeah. Well, and I’m somewhat aware of that. And so let me just insert this and then I want you both to talk. We’re recounting history. And that’s important. Yeah. We need to know our history, but we also hold our memories with a ton of humility. Yeah, recognizing that our processing of history comes from our vantage point and our perspective. So let me say that out front. Because I do want you to share what you would want to share about that. What is helpful for us to understand what we learned. And then we’re going to recognize that our recalling of it is with grace and humility, recognizing that there’s more that could be said.  

And anyway, so yeah, do share a little bit about that, Ted, what did we learn out of that? What were some of the stress points. It was difficult. Yeah. So, what we realized there, just like there are different approaches to just about every other field, there are different approaches to counseling and then inside of Christianity there are different approaches how to do counseling and as we sorted that out. 

What you’re hearing from Ron and I is the mental health counseling side, and there are other approaches inside of broader Christianity approaches which range from what we would say is more like the spiritual warfare end of things. And then there’s another perspective that is going to be really focused on Scripture and it is a beautiful thing to focus on Scripture. But the concept is that inside of counseling, that all God wants us to do with counseling is contained inside the Word. So, we had different opinions and different beliefs about how counseling was to be done and how the Scripture was used as the sole tool or was viewed as the foundation from which we learned other things out of.  

And so, one would’ve been more welcoming to secular learning, for example, or scientific understanding, or the other one may be more resistant. Is that fair to say? I think it’s actually broader. I think that’s accurate, but I think this also fits within sovereignty and predetermination and depends on how you define sovereignty. If that is absolutely no influence, no personal contribution, then everything which has occurred was not just accepted by God but ordained by him. And so that’s a legitimate range within Christianity about how people fall in different places. I think all of Christianity would say God is sovereign, but what we mean by that varies some. 

There actually was good learning for us. Yes, it tempered us. It did in where we could be extreme and still do today. So, it’s not a bad thing, even though the differences aren’t that great because if you could just go happily down the trail that seems comfortable and pleasant to you, you can go further than you should go. 

Yeah. I really appreciate this. It should come as no surprise for anybody who’s lived any bit of life that growth comes with growing pains. Yeah. And even new ideas. Yeah. And vision comes with that. Can you succinctly lay out our platform? You already have, I’m guessing with the biopsychosocial. 

Yep. But if you were to say, this is a little bit about where we have come to coming out of that. This is our basic principle or axioms that we work under. Is that fair? Yeah. So, I have the actual thing that we finally got to through 2006. And so, the ACCFS board received this as their calling. The elders of the Apostolic Christian Church have discussed the nature of mental illness and how it relates to the soul of man. The elders have been united in their support, that based on Scripture and extensive experience, we believe we’re complex beings with three overlapping and integrated parts of our being. We are physical, spiritual, and mental beings. And these cannot be separated, but each part can be affected by separate factors including biological, spiritual, psychological, or social factors. 

Each needs to be assessed and any dysfunction needs to be treated or addressed based on the cause or causes of the dysfunction. This may include repentance, prayer, spiritual counseling, teaching, and medication or other health interventions and or psychosocial counseling. I’m pretty sure that statement specifically was asked to be endorsed by the Elder Body. So there was unanimous support for that statement so we could go forward with some confidence. 

You know, Ted, as you read that understanding of mental health and the human being and what it looks like in the faith setting that the elders unanimously supported, again it comes back to where I began and sanctions my point that the church has a vested interest in mental health. 

Now I’m going to ask a question here, because I think the case for its beauty has been well laid out. Is there any danger or is there any shadow to a mental health facility that is so united with a church? I’m curious what those are and what or how that has fed itself into how we operate. Is that a fair statement? 

I think it’s fair and I think it is one of the areas which we’ve actually talked about in any of our missions. So if a church who’s, I don’t want to say overemphasized, but deeply bought into missionary work in some country, or our nursing homes or LifePoints or Gateway Woods or here, in the same way that some churches got caught up into social gospel, I think that same thing needs to be watched for. The church cannot be defined by its nursing homes. It can’t be defined by its mental health services or presentations from us. It still has to be defined by the gospel and salvation. And as people seek help, as we get excited about that, we need to be careful. That is not the mission of the church. The mission of the church is the saving of souls. 

And I think any area, no matter what, if it was a soup kitchen, it could take on that flavor because it’s more hands on identifiable pieces. So, I don’t see it as a shadow, and I don’t sense something going wrong with that. But I think it is important that we all understand that if we’re going to steward this mission, we have to be aware of that. We can’t be blind to that. Correct. Sure. I totally agree. We believe that our job is to support the functioning of the church. Okay. We are not a church. But the concept that’s really important, we’re not a church. I mean, this agency is not the church. We’re here to support marriages and families so that the church does what it needs to do.  

Yeah, I think that’s beautiful and really important. Ted, let me ask you this question, and again, to a hammer, everything’s a nail. Sure. Do you think that there are necessary checkpoints, for example, or do you think you could possibly fall into the standpoint of seeing everything as a mental health matter when it is not? Is there a caution around that I as you steward your own profession? 

 It’s a good question. I think there’s always the need for checks and balances. There’s no question about that. And that’s true. I think part of the balance is saying there are going to be people who have questions or ask for cautions on things. And I think that we have to continually be able to look at ourselves and look at the things and go back. Are we true to our missions? And that’s where there’s safety here also. Ron and I here are employees. Okay. Uh, we have an administrator, Tim. We have a board of directors that sits over us. 

And then we have the Elder Body. So, we’re not free agents in that sense. I mean, we don’t feel micromanaged by that, but I would just say that we’re not lone rangers. Thanks Ted and Ron for this careful accounting of the history of mental health and the Apostolic Christian Church and this entity, Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. It’s good to understand the past so we understand better who we are. And even as I heard that, I heard an honest accounting of who we are and who we are not and how this agency fits into a larger effort. 

And that is the local church and the denominational church and equipping and supporting the care for people. Thanks, each one for coming on and listening. I hope that this has been helpful to you. God bless you each one.