Whole Brain Living Podcast Series

So, the left brain typically is more linear, more logical, more text based, and the right brain is more creative, or spontaneous, or more abstract than linear. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. Wonderful to have you along. 

I’m very glad to have all the clinicians here in the studio, Brian, Kaleb, Kathy, Ted, they’re all wonderful. Good morning. You know, two halves make a whole, and that’s true for everything. But it’s uniquely true, and especially true for our brains. We have the left brain, we have the right brain, and I think that’s somewhat common knowledge. 

We kind of use that terminology. But we are truly fearfully and wonderfully made. In fact, you might say if we don’t have one of those halves, we’re far less than halfway whole. That’s how important each part of the brain is to our psyche and to our function. Well, let me tell you what the goal is. 

We want to capture God’s beauty and design and intention for the beautiful brain. Okay. We also want to inspire the listener to be thoughtful, to employ both the left and the right brain in our relationships, in our parenting, and in our marriages, in our neighborhoods, just the posture that we have with the world. 

Yeah. So Matt, as you’ve said, the brain as an organ is made up of two halves, and those two halves are connected by a group of fibers called the corpus callosum. And so, what we have in that is this beautiful structure and it is one of the most amazing things in the whole world. It is just being understood what we know about it, probably. Well, we think we know a lot. We continue to learn more and more and more. And I don’t think we’re going to exhaust it anytime soon.  

If I can just pause you right there. If we think about our knowledge of the other organs. Yeah, the heart. And I’m the least one to talk about any of the organs. Something tells me we have a pretty good grasp of the heart, what each part does and what’s required and put that next to the brain. There’s a mystery within the brain yet and I think always will be. I mean, it’s just so complex and there’s so much that can be learned and while we continue to think, oh, we’ve got so much. 

And then, you know, it’s like the next arena opens up and it’s like, wow. And it is one of those places that just seems to continue to breed this worship and like, wow, there is a Creator behind this and it’s really exciting and amazing. I think sometimes you can notice it the most, unfortunately, when people have had a stroke or some kind of damage, you can really see the deficits there, and then you realize all the things that part of the brain was doing without us even thinking about it. 

When you think about what it is as an organ, it is structural, so it has structure, it is chemical, it has chemicals going on, it is electrical, so there is electrical signaling going on. It has blood vessels, and it needs oxygen and all those things. So, it is cardiovascular, okay, and then all that stuff working together and all these different things in an amazing way, and then it produces consciousness, which is something higher than any of the parts. And then somehow, and we don’t understand these things, how our body and our mind and our undying soul. So how all these things somehow this connects together. But it’s very interesting that we would most connect who we are to our brain. 

 Okay. You don’t really connect who you are to your spleen. Well, Kaleb might. I value my spleen. He values his spleen pretty highly. But the concept is, who we are really ties to this organ. And this is pretty amazing. It’s so mysterious. Let’s go right into it then. Left and right brain. Let’s just broadly brush these. 

Left and right brain. Kaleb, do you want to take it? Sure. So, the left brain, typically, is more linear, more logical, more text based, and the right brain is more what we’d think of creative, or spontaneous, or more in the arts, for example, and so more abstract than linear. We use both sides of our brain, but at the same time, I think we can have a tendency towards one or the other, right? 

Do you tend right? I would say, yes, I tend to the right. But I think it influences, part of this, influences the environment in which we, even here, what we take in. Yeah. I remember two men who had difficulty and were in conflict and I just remember them talking about how they would leave a meeting they work together and one of them would say, this is what they said, like the specifics, the detail, the logic, the linear left brain, left brain and the right brain would come away and say, this is what they meant. 

Right? This is what they intended and the meaning that was made out of what was said and how conflictual that was, but how beautiful it was once they were able to understand where they were coming from. That’s helpful. Yeah. Is the right brain more relational? I don’t know if I’d say more relational. I think the emphasis is focused on would you say more capacity for emotion? Yes. And I think in some ways that one of the parts that just makes it a little bit hesitant for us, I think is, if we’re talking about personality versus like to classify it as a specific brain side makes it a little bit tricky as well. 

But there’s certainly some of us that are going to be much more emotional, and we would tend to attribute that to the right brain. There’s going to be those that tend to be more logically bound. We tend to attribute that to the left brain. And I think those are helpful concepts. But whether or not that actually bears out on which brain they’re operating from, that’s a little bit in question. 

But I think it’s a good example of when we don’t operate the same way as somebody else, it’s really easy to miss each other. For sure. And I think one of the things is that somebody, when we get to the extremes, when you take an example to extremes, it’s easiest to see. So, when you see somebody who would be so logical and so analytical that they had difficulty connecting with people, okay, then that’s where you would kind of go, oh, well that over function there is creating under function in another place. 

And somebody that might be so artistic, but they have no idea how to balance a bank account or keep track of getting to a meeting on time, but those are the things that get to the extremes, that what starts to happen is that their strength in one sense causes a deficit in another. 

So that’s where it highlights and maybe even it’s not necessarily that one is more relational than the other. It’s also just knowing where you’re at. If you have good insight, I mean, you can be very logical and linear, but be very relational. It’s helpful if you know that if you have some insight into that and like, oh, okay it’s hard for me to understand their perspective or where they’re coming from and to see that deficit then helps you have a little bit of doubt on the way that you’re interpreting things and then that helps you be relational. I think too it’s good not to have that bias of, oh, I’m just logical so I can’t connect with the emotion or the creativeness of it. 

It’s good to be able to purposely access both parts of the brain. Yeah, because the beauty of the brain is its malleable neurons that fire together wire together and the whole idea that it’s changeable. And so even if I don’t orient towards more logical, guess what? That’s a skill or something that I can lean into and grow and build. 

You’re suggesting then we can grow in this space, right? And learn to access and use for good, maybe that hemisphere that we don’t tend towards. And I think one of the things about it is it doesn’t mean that we’re going to always just flip from one to the other. 

Or we’re going to be able to, I know it’s going to be a surprise, but I’m not going to be a Picasso. Okay. I’m not going to be a Monet. Okay. You’re really surprised when you see my handwriting. But at the same time, my appreciation, I just heard a podcast on beauty here and, and you know what, since I’ve heard that podcast, I have been intentionally like going, oh, look at that and so I have been. For those of us who are linear and logical, how do we access what would be perhaps a skill or a practice and to allow that right brain to grow and flourish? Well, I think even just from a spiritual development lens, to just spend time in the Psalms like that for somebody that is more left brain is going to be an exercise and like just tell me what you’re saying, I don’t have to work with it. Whereas to be able to just sit and imagine the pictures that it’s painting and what that might be and there’s not like this is the right conclusion but it’s really a treasure hunt that you’re invited to just enjoy. 

Okay, so I’m smiling, Brian, because I just sat down with a book on how to read poetry. Because I, for that very reason, you’re reading that one, aren’t you? Psalms are poetry, right? And it starts out by saying, don’t fixate on what it’s saying and the meaning. I’m like, what in the world? What am I supposed to do? But it basically says what you do is you, you enjoy it. You enjoy the cadence; you enjoy the pattern. You enjoy the imagery. You enjoy the imagination. And guess what happens with that? Enjoyment? Meaning starts to drop out of it over lingering now to a left-brain thinker. 

That was helpful. That’s right. Exactly. And that’s exactly what you’re saying. I think another opportunity as couples, when your spouse is particularly left brained is to go somewhere and then shut off the GPS and just enjoy the ride and sit with the discomfort of not knowing where you’re going. 

Wow. This is strange. I’m starting to rock. Wow. Is this to create distress? Yeah. Is that what you’re trying to do here, Kaleb? Yeah. Man. Okay, that sounds good. Shut off the GPS. But your point is, yeah, taking away some of those faculties of the left brain. Well, let me just say this with, with GPS and the rest of us. Do we live in a left-brain world? Do we live in a dominant left-brain world? We live in a day and age of information, of text. You know what I’m saying? 

We’re post the enlightenment, where everything has been reduced down that I can think therefore I am or whatever that saying was. I mean, that’s got to be forming, right? I think the ability to get information so fast and make sense of it speaks into that, like, here’s the problem, here’s the solution. 

And it pushes towards more of that logical thinking piece of it. Like with kids in development. The use of imagination and curiosity actually helps form that right hemisphere a little bit more. And so, when we have such ease of access to information, it stops our ability to have that curiosity or wondering. 

And when we have such information overload, the brain wants to make things simple. And that’s why you take whatever problem you want to talk about, war in the Middle East, or immigration, or what’s going on in the church, whatever, it’s so easy for people to go, this is the problem. Even though it’s a problem that has different trails and different issues that are coming from different direction, more like Swiss cheese, right? 

Our brain is trying to deduce because of the complexity and well, even to that point, Ted, it seems like I can hold more on the left side in terms of the brokenness of this world than I can on the right side. I mean, I go to overwhelm pretty quickly if this is an emotional thing, if I’m supposed to emotionally take in the world and all that’s going on, I quickly melt down, but somehow there’s a logical way to hold that. 

That’s interesting, right, those capabilities, but also the liabilities. Yeah, and I think to what that maybe speaks to as we think about maybe even stretching the left brain would be to think about compassion and empathy and those would be areas that would be good to strengthen. 

But you’re exactly right that it can certainly get overwhelming as we think about the things going on in the world and beyond that. So, I think one of the things that’s important about right brain, left brain is to remember that we think about Jesus being on the earth 2,000 years ago, and then you think about how many people were literate, okay? 

And then you go, when did the printing press arrive and when did the Bible arrive in people’s languages? Well, there’s a 1,500-year gap. I’m broad brushing there too. There’s a 1,500-year gap where most people didn’t have access to the Bible, and most people couldn’t read. But somehow the transmission of faith still happened in the Old Testament. It happened orally. It happened through stories. It happened through sharing. Worship still occurred. Now, it’s really easy for us to just think about it with the Bible. And again, I love the Bible. I teach, but it’s very interesting. Whenever I work with somebody let’s say in my elder role or even the counseling role who has a learning disability, and I find out how much I focus on reading the Bible and memorizing. 

And all of a sudden, I’m sticking them in a spot, I’m like saying, oh, you have to go through this one channel. And I have to kind of step back and go, wait a minute, let’s look at these other channels to think about how you take in information auditorily, visually, how you think about worship and learning that doesn’t have to be through this barrier of just the language, and I think it’s really easy to go there. 

Let’s go to the Bible. Let’s go to the things of faith. Let’s go to our churches, right? Left and right brain experience. Are we leaning one way? Are we leaning one way in the way that we present God to people? How has he presented himself in the Scriptures? If he created the left and the right-hand brain, I would have to believe he’s appealed to the left and the right-hand brain. 

Are we doing that in kind? I don’t know. But anyway, I’d love your thoughts on that. Sometimes I think we’ve moved towards, okay, give us the three-point sermon, like that has these bullet points of answers to these questions, which is really helpful. And where do I find it in the text in Scripture? 

And we need that. And it’s important. But at the same time, we need to acknowledge the mystery and the awe that both God is knowable in a sense, not just cognitively. But also relationally, right? And both of those are true and we need to cultivate both ways of approaching him and knowing him. And so sometimes we do need to know, okay, this reference in this Scripture and this teaches this truth about God that we know. 

And then we also need to understand what it is like to embrace him relationally and know him and experiencing him in life when I’m walking through this situation. That’s not a simple yes, no answer. You know, I really like that, Kaleb. And the thought that comes to me, the challenge that comes to me is, Matt, when I read the Ten Commandments, can I experience a left-brain experience as well as a right brain experience that supports it? 

And there is one. The left brain, what are they? They’re pretty clear, black and white, and I need that. But to supply it also to see God’s narrative behind it, to say there’s more to that story. You know what I mean? I think that’s a huge challenge. And don’t you think the Bible does that well? Like, just even if we look at the way Jesus taught when he was here through parable, it kind of allowed some visual pieces for the people that were more visual, along with the content of the important pieces of what he was trying to teach. 

There was an emotional connection of the shepherd going out and finding the lost lamb, for example, it resonates in emotion. So, I think you’re absolutely right. It’s amazing too, as we think about God that in his creation, and I think to see the creation, to see both of those pieces because it does inspire awe. 

To think about the exactness of the world, the order and the beauty that is in the order. And then you see for some reason, he made seasons and colors and all these different things, and you see the creativity and the diversity, and you go so which is God? Is he in the order and the intricacy or is he in the beauty and the fluidity and stuff like that and you go, wow.  

Let’s draw this episode part one of the left and the right-hand brain to a close, meditating on that thought that God is wonderfully logical and rational, as well as beautifully creative, employing both the left and the right-hand brain as he engages us. This, I think, gives us a vision for living in a healthy way in this new year. 

Thank you each one for being on and when we come back, we’re going to pick the conversation up and have an eye towards our relationships. How do we engage others using our left and right-hand brain. Hope you can listen. 

It’s the interplay of the right and left hemisphere at the same time as the interplay of cortex, the midbrain and the safety systems. So, it’s really marvelous. Yeah. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

Excellent always to have you along. Very happy to bring the second part of our episodes on the left and the right-hand brain. As the clinicians here at ACCFS spell out what this looks like as we engage with others, our children, our spouses, our world. What does it look like to engage with people using both a left and a right brain model? 

There are going to be some that we just naturally click with, and you don’t even have to think about it. And then there’s others with whom you’re going to have to be pretty purposeful. So, to ask somebody, hey, tell me about your week. For a left-brain person, that’s going to be pretty easy to respond to that. Whereas if you ask them, what was exciting from your week? That’s going to be a much more difficult question. And so just even thinking about maybe part of what was difficult in connecting there is that I’m asking questions that are the way that I view the world and what would it look like to meet them in that space. That would be just a really small, maybe practical thing to think about. 

For sure. Yeah, and I also think with married couples, you think about the left brain is understanding and make sense of the dynamics that are happening in the relationship. So, there is a need for the cognitive aspect of logically linear. Hey, this is what goes on when I approach my spouse in this way, right, that we get into this pattern or cycle. 

But then there’s also the piece of longings and desires underneath that are critical to connect to, which is the right brain part of attachment and shifting the attachment in a way that leads to a deeper connection. And so, I think both of those are important and needed in relationship and attachment. 

It’s interesting because I think about it, I have a dual role as psychologist and also as elder. And so, one of the things that happens in the elder’s office is when people come to confess. Okay. And I’m going to take something like confession. All right. The definition of confession is over here. The knowledge of what people know, I need to confess, X, Y, or Z is also left hemisphere. The emotion of it, the shame of it, the, oh, crud, I don’t want to do this kind of thing. But here’s the other thing. When I sit with somebody and we’re going to talk about confession, one of the things they do is I go to the Scripture, read James 4:16, and I read 1 John 1:9, and we talk about what the Scripture says. And then I say, I want to invite you to confess, but I want to invite you to confess because I know how much confession has meant in my life because I have had to, and what I try to do, and I don’t do this perfectly, but I try to connect. This is a human thing. And the relief that comes in people to connect at that level and those kinds of things, it’s an embodiment. It’s a relationship. It’s something else. And what happens in them is different because there’s a relational connection that’s happening.  

Yeah, one thing that comes to mind here that matters is again, I’m thinking more through a parenting lens to know our kids and to know how they operate. And so, for example, I’ve got a child who is very emotional. And so, if I can meet them in that, and I know that if I can help them understand their emotion or even share my emotion or do things that stir emotion and creativity, that’s going to be deeply connecting for them. Another one, I need to step into that, but they’ll get overwhelmed pretty quickly. 

So, we kind of have to toe in and then toe out and how I’m going to give that instruction is going to vary based on that. Now, obviously I don’t do this perfectly, but I think just to have that awareness and think about what it looks like to grow connection. And to meet them in the predominant way they view the world and operate, I think, can be helpful. 

I think it’s so good. I mean, I’ve got children like that too, emotional, right brain. And I think my logical exposition is going to be helpful. It never is. Yes, exactly. It’s a miss every single time. Just hearing you both say that I just keep thinking it’s the beauty of both. It just goes back to that piece of we need both sides for a purpose. 

It helps in parenting relationships. Yeah. So, I’ve got a question. A model that we’ve podcasted about, we’ve talked about, is that how you think gives rise to how you feel, and how you feel gives rise to how you behave. It’s a beautiful model. Is that a left-brain model, is my question. 

Well, I tend to think of it more as a triangle, that it could start with any of those pieces. But I think you’re right. If, if we primarily just start with thinking and then see that as the catalyst that drives everything else, I think that is a predominant left-brain model. And it would be wise to say, wait, actually, there’s some that they’re feeling way before any of the emotion comes. 

Or that, you know, their behavior is significant, that’s really the catalyst. And depending on the moment, even can be different for individual to individual. So, I think that’s wise to be thoughtful for sure. Yeah, I would agree with Brian. I know this is maybe an extreme example, but where you’re driving and maybe you nearly run into somebody, you are actually reacting in the moment and you feel like reacting and you feel the emotion, but you’re not thinking, right? I mean, it’s like your emotion is leading the way and that’s the way God designed our brains to work. And so, in those situations, we would say, actually, emotions leading will not speak to that exactly. 

You walk into a room; you walk into a situation even before you can process the content. It seems like emotions lead very frequently, even for those of us who are left brained. And maybe just as a very practical example of this would be if you’re in relationship with somebody and you come into the room and you think they’re upset, that’s going to kick in on that part that’s like, oh no, and the emotional, and you’re going to be perceiving that. 

Neuroception picks that up prior to even thinking. And then that is going to really drive your behavior and drive your thinking and like to slow down and say, wait a second, I think I’m feeling something because I noticed the facial expression and then we can wind back down and use our left hemisphere to help speak logic and then check in on our assumptions that come before we even realize it. 

So, slowing down, yeah, probably better to say is that our brain does some kind of perception first, okay? It perceives and sometimes it’s perceiving through a very conscious, logical or big picture. Sometimes it’s emotional and sometimes it’s if I can’t breathe, nothing else matters. Okay, so when that happens, that’s going to drive also the way that we respond as well. 

And we actually teach people when they’re more emotional or their lower brain is activated, the ability to ask questions gets that frontal brain back online in order to be able to think through and do more of the logical thinking. So, Kathy, is that then a hint and help to those who might tend towards the right brain or have any emotional experience to engage that left is asking questions? Yeah, I think about it a little bit with more from a parenting perspective or with kids that ability to sometimes have to validate the emotion to help calm that emotion, but also be able to engage in conversation to be able to start some of that facts and logical thinking play. 

So, it’s that need to do both there, it’s the interplay of the right and left hemisphere at the same time as the interplay of cortex, the midbrain and the safety systems so it’s really marvelous. Yeah. It also makes me think, too, that sometimes in the church, but maybe even outside of that, we primarily think, if I just get the right information, that’s going to solve things. 

Where, in many ways, it’s what does it look like to connect relationally? And that sometimes is actually the catalyst and the strongest catalyst towards change and feeling connection and even being able to grow in relationship with the Lord or with others. It’s more about relations and experience than information. 

I’ve had that exact experience and I’m finding out that my left brain isn’t enough to bring about the change that I need in my life. And it wasn’t enough until I had certain things explode in my life. Sure. And then I realized that logic and knowledge isn’t enough. That’s right. And now I’m finding myself reaching over into this other relational part, this other thinking. Okay, I need to read the Scriptures in a way that I have not read them before. 

Because facts aren’t enough. Exactly. Yeah, I think this is a really key part. There are many people, us included, okay, who know all that they’re supposed to do right. The information isn’t what’s lacking. And the question is how we embody that. That’s how we live into it. And that that particular thing oftentimes is the harder part. 

Then is the need to know the five steps. And so, a lot of people, for example, would rather read 10 books on something, listen to 150 podcasts, than call another person in church and say, I need to sit down with you and be vulnerable. Okay. And so, it’s like, give me another 50 podcasts. Okay. I think it’s an excellent point, Ted. 

I think you’re absolutely right. The amount of content, left brain content that I can bring in is important, but none of it really speaks to that relational point of view. Well, I appreciate your vulnerability, Matt, too, because I think it speaks to stepping into the relationship that also requires us to look at ourselves and what it brings out in us. 

So, what I mean by that is like with a couple where you have an individual who tends towards left and problem solving, which is needed, right? But there’s also a level of discomfort that comes up within the spouse when their wife or husband is in an emotionally tense place. So, part of building the relationship piece requires me to look inside myself and understand and be aware. 

What is it that it brings up in me? It’s different than the answer, right? That’s messy. That’s uncomfortable. And it makes me think, too, one of the things we’re doing right now at home is we’re doing No Screen November. And so, this is part of why I’ve been working long hours. It’s just better to stay at work. 

But what’s been really interesting to see our kids is you can tell them, don’t fight or get along. And they’re like, okay, just, if I sit in front of a screen and then I avoid each other, I do pretty well, you know, but then you remove that and you have to do life together. And all of a sudden, they’ve got to use the right hemisphere to creatively come up with games and the things that they can do together. 

And there’s a lot more play and laughter and actually there’s been some conflict for sure, but also, I think more rich relationship that’s been really fun to see. And it’s just kind of an experience like. That makes me as it’s coming to mind as we’re talking about this. Yeah, let’s do a podcast on play. 

Yes. Oh, yeah, let’s do it. Sure. Sometime that’s coming. Yeah, well, two halves make a whole. Thanks so much. All of you for sharing this to our listeners. You got a sense of the beauty of the brain, the beauty of God, but also that God so lovingly engaged us through the Scriptures, through the disciplines of Christian living, through relationship, to reach out to us in such a healthy way, both with the left, some things to know, and with the right, relational and emotional, may we go forward and engage people in that same manner. 

Thanks Matt. Thank you.