Identity Formation Podcast Series

When we think about identity formation, we can think about it in two different aspects, that people go through some kind of exploration, but then there’s commitment. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

Delighted to have you along. Ted Witzig Jr. is with me today. Ted, Amber, and I had a couple episodes on identity a long time ago. We really unpacked identity in highlighting a Christ centered identity. And that’s most important. Maybe you could say it’s all important. 

Yet, we carry more identities than just a Christ centered identity. Is that a true statement? There are different aspects of identity, and yes, our identities are different. I would love to explore that today. I want to look at, pop the hood a bit of identity, and get into the mechanics of how identity works. 

Okay. You follow me with that? I do. Because I think with a large objective, maybe a larger objective and just saying, how do we steward this area of our life? Yeah. Would you say that is something we need to steward? I would, and particularly because it’s something that is growing and developing and changing across our lives. 

So, let’s start again by reviewing what we mean by identity and why it is such a big deal. So, the definition I like to use is it’s the sum total of how an individual would answer the question of who I am and who I am not. And I think that for most people, it’s pretty easy to identify some parts of their identity. And then other parts, they don’t realize that are actually aspects of their identity. So, it can range from things like our demographics, the fact that you and I are both males, the fact that you and I are both fathers, those are aspects of our identity. But then there are other aspects that people sometimes will forget, and it has to do with things that have shaped them, things that they value, our worldview, our educational status. 

So, I can already sense that there’s something really abstract though about identity, and I’d like to push towards that. Okay. I mean, the demographics is easy enough. Sure. We fill those out every time we have to fill those forms out and say who we are and our age and our gender and all of those types of things. 

Right. And certainly, that plays in there, but it’s not as simple as that, is it? No. And I think the reason is that as we’re going across our lifespan, different parts of our identity tend to be emphasized. more than others. And so, for little ones growing up in our home, they don’t think much about identity at all. 

But boy, by the time you hit junior high and you’re hitting high school, identity, particularly identity as belonging, who I’m with, who I affiliate with, how other people see me, how I want to be seen. All of a sudden, now we’re in deep water. So, when you said belonging, now we’re starting to capture that abstractness that I was searching for. 

Right? And you mentioned what people think of me is a very abstract thing as well, right? I mean, because I can write my demographics down and it’s totally objective. Sure. But belonging and what people think of me is completely subjective. Oh yes. And just think, in this online environment of social media, people actually want to cast an identity because they want to help shape how people see them. 

Okay, because they want to be seen in certain ways and then based on what I feel like is important okay, so let’s say I think it was really important to be seen as educated or athletic or very intelligent or very musical whatever, I think that ideal is I’m either into that, or sometimes people, well, what’s interesting is you see people with their identities, if mom and dad really are into an identity, well, guess what? 

I’m not going to be in that identity. You see what happens? And so sometimes people are trying to gain entry in, other times people are like, you can’t make me go into that, even if you try. Which, maybe we can see rebellion through the lens of identity crisis or struggle. Oh, sure. Alright, Ted, I want to talk to good identity. 

Yeah. Do healthy human beings have identities that are good and wholesome and managed and stewarded. You know what I mean? Yep. Is it okay that I see myself as a teacher and want to be seen as such? Yeah. Having Christ centered identity is so important that to see yourself in an academic or an occupational or another role seems like it’s not supposed to be. God has planted us all in different places and given us all different personalities, gifts, family situations, skin colors. 

You know, he’s chosen the times and places that we were going to live. So, in so doing to see yourself as a teacher, I see myself as a psychologist. We will see ourselves as ministers. The fact is those things are not wrong to see ourselves as part of our identity. Again, I said earlier, it’s multifaceted and it’s supposed to be multifaceted. 

I think what’s interesting is if each of those identity aspects are used ultimately within the bounds and bonds of Scripture, they can not only bring glory to God, but they can be a blessing to others. And they can help us to have abundant joy. I think what happens is when an identity is given too much emphasis, or if it goes above our identity in Christ, then what starts to happen is that thing becomes so large that it crowds out other things that God said were really important. 

So, for example, if you and I have an occupation, That’s really important to us, and that’s fine and good. But let’s say that occupation is so important and being known in that occupation is so important that now I don’t attend to my relationships in healthy ways. So that I’m causing neglect and another thing then I’ve let one identity become so large that I forgot that other facet is also there. 

So, you’re really giving us right there a key on what stewarding your identities are and that is knowing the importance of this particular category of my life. That’s right. Because it is very common for people to feel their identities rub up against one another in a way that feels uncomfortable because they seem to be in conflict. 

They can seem to be in conflict, right. Each one is demanding time, for example. Exactly. Which one am I going to do? Right. And so, the extent that one gets involved in something is sometimes limited by another identity. There are times that we have to make pivots in our identities that can be really, really challenging. 

So, here’s what I want you to do. I want you to give us a caricature of a really healthy person who stewards their identity well. What are my values? And what are my priorities that I’m living into? And what are the things that are going to guide how I make decisions about my time and about the things that I’m going to invest in? You can see it a lot of times as an investment.  

So, I think what I want you to speak to now, Ted, is what does that formation look like? So, one of the things, when we think about identity formation, you can think about it in two different aspects, that people go through some kind of exploration. of identity. They’re like, hey, do you think I would like to do this? Or I would like to do that? And as they see the opportunities around them, they think about what they want to do and they go, hey, I’d like to try option A, and some people want to go, well, I want to try B and sometimes C, D, E, F, and G. Then the second aspect, there’s exploration, but then there’s commitment and commitment is really where somebody says this is where I’m landing, at least for now.  

Okay. This is who I am. This is who I am. So, the exploration is you have time, but ultimately there’s a commitment. You’ve done a couple of things. And by what you’ve said here, you’ve given us a little bit of a shape for which identity formation happens. Exploration leading to commitment and that experience strokes belonging. Yeah. That was the abstract word that I needed. Yeah. The reality is when somebody has both belonging and meaning, okay, they feel like they’re in a flourishing place. Yes, they flourish. Okay. Because they have a sense that there’s a purpose why I’m here and for what I’m doing. 

If you think about what’s happening in and across society, one of the things that’s happening is detachment. People are struggling with where they belong and then this whole lack of meaning, of purpose. Oh, you know what? Hey, I can’t make sense of it or they don’t have a worldview that’s able to encompass both the wonderful things of life, but also the hard things of life. 

So now you’re giving us a caricature or a sketch of an individual who’s not in a healthy identity spot, okay, so let’s go there. What might throw a person into that place? So, a couple things. Let’s say that maybe they’re at a job and they knew who they were there. Okay. Let’s say they had belonging and purpose. 

They knew their work group. People knew who they were, they were prized for who they were, and things were moving along, but let’s say they took a different job in another state, or let’s say they experienced a loss in their life. Let’s say they were somebody who had been married for 45 years and now are a widow or a widower Okay, so things have pivoted, and a big part of their identity shifted. So that might be in their sense of belonging. That might be in who knows me or how I am known and what ends up happening in those places, we don’t have that sense of home. We feel unsettled and rocked around. 

And so, it’s kind of, where do I belong now? What is meaningful now? And then if you go through a transition that rocks your world. Then all of a sudden, you don’t have that equilibrium that kind of settles you. So, you’ve just given us a couple of ingredients that can produce this type of situation. These transitions, you mentioned death, a move, a divorce, losing a job, right? 

Job changes. Oh, yeah. Kids move out of the house. All of these things now put purpose, belonging, grounding, home, all up for grabs. And sometimes these things happen in a way for people that it seems like everything shifts at once. Okay. So, part of what we want to get across here in this podcast is to be healthy, we need to be stewards of this part of our life. 

If an individual finds himself in that place or knows that, hey, I’ve got a transition coming. I’ve got retirement in three years, right? So, what does it look like for me to navigate those waters well? So, a couple of things. Depending on whether somebody has this is anticipated or unanticipated, that’s going to make a big difference because one can kind of think about it, plan ahead, et cetera. 

But either way, I think it’s important to realize that when somebody has been in a place where they’ve had a settled identity, okay, where they fit, an identity that’s felt stable. When they transition, it’s the most normal to feel like you haven’t gotten your sea legs, you feel wobbly. And that is that exploration phase. 

It’s about, okay, who am I now that I’m retired? Who am I now that I’m in this role? It can still feel like it takes a little while to get your sea legs under you. So, what I hear, then, is that patience is required in identity work. Yeah.  

I’m halfway through our conversation with Ted on identity formation. We have seen the importance of the skill set of exploration and commitment. When we return, he’s going to answer the question, can we move to commitment too quickly? As well as looking at the role community plays in identity formation. Hope to have you along. Thanks for being with us. 

We have to allow ourselves to trust this overall process of growth that we’re in. Welcome to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m very glad to air the second half of a conversation that I’m having with Ted Witzig Jr. on the topic. of identity formation. 

So, what I hear then is that patience is required in identity work. Yeah. And I think one of the things that happens too is we have to have patience for ourselves. Sometimes we have to have patience for the people we’re observing in this. You know, when you’re the parent and you’re watching your 15-year-old or you’re watching your 22-year-old or you’re watching your newly married adult child in their role, they’re wobbly. 

Okay. And it doesn’t mean they’re in a bad place. It can mean sometimes people are in bad places, but sometimes it’s just that they’ve got wobbly legs. Okay. I want you to speak to the condition. We mentioned exploration leading to commitment. Yeah. Okay. Because I think when you talk about that kid space, there are some kids that seemingly move into commitment quick and easy. 

Yeah. And other kids that don’t get to commitment quick and easy. Yeah. It comes through pain. Sometimes heartache. But what I hear you saying is that exploration is important to land at a good place. Yep. So, one more thing and then I want you to address that. Is it possible to go to commitment too soon? 

Oh yeah. So, if you think about, if we frame this up, Matt, and say that a healthy identity is one that has both the exploration and then somebody’s committed to it, there are some other options, okay? There are people for whom they feel like they’re frantically exploring. Okay, frantically exploring, but they can’t find the ground. 

And we call that identity crisis. Okay. And that is when I try this, and I try this and I try this and I’m going to buy this. I’m going to purchase that. Yeah. I’m going to try this group of friends and that group of friends, and I don’t know where I fit. And so, they kind of sometimes make impulsive decisions or feel disconnected. 

But you brought up this condition of can somebody commit too soon? And the answer is yes. Sometimes people grab an identity, or an identity is handed to them. So, they commit very quickly, oftentimes before full understanding or exploration, and that’s called foreclosed identity That’s when somebody in some ways is like I am who they say I am. And so, early on it can actually feel safer for people because it’s like, okay, as long as I do what this group of friends does, or this group, or even this church group does because they have the belonging and the purpose. Exactly. It comes by way of that commitment. It comes very rapidly, okay, I know who I am and what I’m supposed to do. What happens however is that in this in foreclosure an individual has not necessarily gone through the process of sorting out their own set of beliefs. 

Okay. Now, I’m not trying to say that all beliefs are equal out there. The Bible helps us sort that out. But even as you and I have raised children or are raising children, we raise them up to know the Lord and to follow his ways. But at some point, and definitely points, they have to own those beliefs themselves. 

They have to come to say, this is what mom and dad believed. Ah, this is also what I believe. Here’s the thing. You can’t hand somebody an identity that is theirs. Okay. You can hand them a foreclosed identity. You can push them out of the nest and into exploration that they can do. The best place for them is to have counsel and encouragement, but also just the loving and holding environment, we call it, that allows them to explore and to own their own beliefs.  

See, now you’ve just commissioned us, Ted, with a larger scope here, and that is, what we do is we provide the environment whereby people can explore so they can get to that good, committed end. That’s right. That’s the beautiful thing about a church family and an intergenerational body of believers because you have the old and the young, you have the Sunday School teachers and the preachers, you’ve got the men and the women, you’ve got all these different things. 

We have to allow ourselves to trust this overall process of growth that we’re in because so many times just think about how your identity has been shaped by things that you didn’t want to go through. Okay, think about how many times your identity has been shaped by people that you didn’t know were going to shape it. We’ve talked about identity being the sense of belonging. Yes, purpose. Yeah, grounding and I’m going to add another one, worth. The way that those terms come to settle upon us is somewhat constructed by our culture, okay? Sure. I want you to speak to this. How one person, 200 years ago, was affirmed in their belonging, purpose, worth, the mechanism for that to happen is different than perhaps what it is today. 

Of course. And that’s just part of this beast, right? Oh, it’s part of this animal. Yes. I want you to speak to what does it look like today? Do you understand what I’m even asking? Well, I’m going to try. I think one of the things that we have to recognize is that in each generation there are different things that tend to be pronounced in terms of how people figure out what’s important and not individuality. Okay, that’s a big one right now. Individuality. Or another one being my ability to be unique. Okay, so when we start having this, it’s fascinating because, I just want to say it this way, I think that with each of these things, you will find that there’s probably truth and error that can be used so wonderfully by God, but also corrupted by our adversary Satan. 

Because, yes, it is so important. We are created as unique souls, and nobody else has that soul. It’s so important to recognize that uniqueness. But, when uniqueness becomes my God, all of a sudden, I’ve exchanged a beautiful aspect of God’s creativity for a lie. Okay? And, the problem is, then what starts to happen is people start to strive. 

Like this. I have to be the best. I have to be the most of this. I have to be exceptional in this or who knows what that is. I mean it could be in almost anything today that part of the identity objective is uniqueness and set apartness. And actually, I think it’s really profound that identity plays on both uniqueness as well as collectiveness. 

Absolutely. Right. And that’s why I think it’s so beautiful when we see the truth of that uniqueness where you see God as a shepherd, really shepherding an individual, but then also shepherding a flock. Yeah. Okay. And a society and a world, right. So, you see that kind of corporateness and the individual but what I hear you saying is right now we’re definitely on a swing identity wise towards individualism. And I totally see that I’m working with young people, working with my own children. They have a very tall order at 18 years of age to come to peace with themselves when uniqueness has got to be a part of that. Yeah, and they’ve got to construct it as opposed to allowing a group to influence that. 

They’re in a difficult place. To bring this to a close here, Ted, as we started out, you gave us the different categories that feed into our identity. Whether it be demographics, those things like gifts, ethnicity. These are very sacred things. Right? So, we can see here the identity plays on very charged aspects of our life. 

Sure. Right? Oh, yeah. That’s why this is a big deal. Yeah. And that’s why this is a topic that we do need to steward because it’s very fueled within us. Well, I think another part to that is people invest more in different parts of their identity. Okay. And so, what ends up happening is whether we’re talking about skin color or education or money or whatever kind of things, if that is really core to who I am, it is going to feel more and more sacred. 

Therefore, the more you don’t affirm it or the more that you’re different from me the more threatened I am by you. If we take an aspect of identity as being, let’s say how handy we are around the house and I’m pretty low on that, Matt. I’m on the low side of that. But here’s the thing. I also have come to terms with that. Because God’s given me other things to focus on and talents to use. And so, I can say, hey, you know what? I’m not really good at that. And it doesn’t feel like a bad thing that I have to be defensive about. You don’t lose your sense of purpose. Right. You don’t lose your sense of belonging. 

Right. Those are the core things. Yes. So, what ends up happening, though, is if I was really keyed in on that, to be known as somebody who is really handy. And then you outperformed what I could do, then all of a sudden, that can wound me, right? Then I can say, oh, well, he’s better than I am, and I don’t matter. 

So, it’s interesting, the relative space of those things and how they play. You know, let’s close with Christ centered identity. That is critical to everything. But this conversation, I wanted to talk about identity apart from Christ centered identity because it’s important in all of these areas. 

But I would love you to bring this Christ centered identity into what place does it play in all of these others? Yep. I’ll just say it this way. A twofold aspect of Christ centered identity. Number one is for the believer; I think it’s important that no aspect is higher than our identity in Christ. I think it’s one of the ways that if my identity as a psychologist or my identity as a father or as any identity is higher than my identity in Christ, then what starts to happen is I’m going to prioritize that aspect of my life over that. 

If our Christ centered identity is top, then it puts those other things in the right place. Okay. And so actually, I’m able to be the right kind of father, the right kind of husband, the right kind of psychologist. But the other thing is I do think that Christ centered identity actually can be the motivation, The power source that then I live out those other areas and can I add another word? 

Sure. It almost is the moorings. It’s the stability that allows our other identities to swirl and transition and run across people who are better and handier than us. Yes. Right. And for us to put that in perspective. Yeah. Because then, you know what, then it helps me to see money correctly. It helps me to see my relationships correctly. 

It helps me to see how much time I should spend on these things. And so, what it does is it’s the central operating identity that the other ones operate by. You can also see, then, why somebody’s religious and spiritual worldview would have such a profound aspect on identity. Yeah. For sure. And by Christ’s identity, then, wonderfully, we have belonging, purpose, worth, stability, and home in such a tremendous way that allows us, then, to go out and be healthy individuals in all these other important areas of our life.  

So, thank you, Ted, for bringing clarity to this, exploration to commitment. There is a formation that identity goes by. We have lots of identities in our lives and really, we are called to steward those important aspects so that we’re thinking accurately about ourselves, thinking accurately about others, and ultimately taking Christ’s view of us and making that be most important. 

And so, anyway, lots to think about. I think I’m going to continue to think about this topic moving forward but thank you very much to our listeners for being along. I am confident that this conversation applies to you in more than one, two or three ways. So, we trust that it will be blessed to you.