Caring for Aging Parents Podcast Episode

The families that have been able to say this to their departing loved one and to hear that in return go through this process so much better than others. The four statements are thank you, please forgive me, I forgive you, I love you. And this is most important. Welcome friends to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

I’m glad to have you along. I am very happy today to interview Tim Funk and Roger Gasser. Welcome brothers to both of you. Thank you. Thank you. Good to be here, Matt. Our topic today is caring for aging parents. This topic makes sense in every demographic, in every language around the globe. Caring for aging parents is common. 

And yet I’m going to talk out of the other side of my mouth because it’s also occurred to me that it’s very broken. God has not created us to endure aging and death. All of that was a result of sin, right? From that vantage point, what we’re talking about here is very unnatural. That makes a lot of sense to me, Matt, because although it is natural and death is a part of life, I enjoy going past cemeteries and thinking about the lives that have been already lived and that they’re over now. 

But it’s a different perspective when you believe that you are going to die. I mean, it’s something that other people go through and so far, we don’t know what it’s like. So even with that address there, Roger, you really bring death pretty close to us when we care for our aging parents. There must be a reality that sets in in those moments to say, life is real, death is real. 

And there is a bringing near to us that perspective of the frailty of life. Yeah, I think the other thing that you find too, is that as you get to a point to where you’re seeing your aging parents, you also realize that you are aging as well. And that it’s not too distant in the future that you may be on the receiving end of this, but for now, you’re walking into this time and it’s really for a lot of us, even as we get into our 50s and 60s. 

It’s a new experience for us trying to think about how we take care of our parents that are aging. Both of the dads that I knew, my own father, pop, and Sue’s father, dad, were both pretty strong-minded people. And yet in the face of death, they can’t exactly know how it’s going to go. 

We don’t know physically what’s going to happen. We don’t know mentally what’s going to happen. And it’s just as the Lord told Peter in the last chapter of the gospel of John. Peter was pretty strong minded. We get that sense from reading the New Testament and yet the Lord had to tell him, Peter you know, when you were young, you dressed yourself and you did pretty much whatever you wanted. 

But when you become old, someone else is going to dress you and they’re going to make decisions for you. And this is true for all of the four parents that I have known did not choose this, and we don’t know for us when that’s going to happen. And so, as we walk these days with aging folks, we’d really like this podcast to bring a bit of voice to that experience, bring a bit of encouragement to many who are currently walking these days and to the many of us who will, Lord willing, have the chance to do so. 

And so, there are a number of dynamics and the first that I would like to broach is if there is a family unit and there are siblings involved, this is a road that you walk together with brothers and sisters. And I would imagine then there are some issues that come out of that. 

Yes. So, like with my mother’s passing, there are three of us children in the family. And honestly, my sister was probably the primary caregiver. She was right there with her all the way and communicating very clearly with the doctors and communicating with any type of care that needed to be done. My sister was on top of that. 

The interesting thing is through that time, there are always communications challenges and things like that between the siblings. Just making sure that everybody is informed of the same level of information, and that’s actually virtually impossible. So, you end up there’s just a lot of grace through those things, because decisions are getting made. And when there’s a surviving spouse or someone living there and how do you navigate it when you have both of the spouses still alive? You’re taking care of the one that seems to be failing and the other one is struggling with the grief of some of that. Or they are trying to figure out how they can help and they’re not as capable as they used to be. And so, you’re coming in there and you’re dealing with the dignity issues, you’re dealing with how you get the right amount of care to the person that’s there and who needs the care and then also trying to keep the family informed along the way. 

And there are just a lot of different dynamics in that space to do that. The other thing that you’re trying to do is honor their autonomy as best you can through that. And so, there are just a number of different dynamics that you’re trying to manage. Not all those you are doing cognitively. 

A lot of times you’re not purposing to do each one, each dynamic area on its own. But you’re doing that in the course of a day, in the course of a week, in the course of a month. And so, it’s a challenge. So, Tim, to summarize a bit there’s certainly the physical aspect of caring for your folks. 

Obviously, that is the impetus of it all. So, there’s something physical, there are physical decisions to be made, but then you have the relationships that also need to be navigated as well as the emotions, the grief, the complexity is clear. When you say it like that, Roger, I’d be interested to hear what comes to mind as you think about some of those complexities. 

It’s very likely that siblings don’t all agree at the same time at the same rate as to what needs to be done. And so, this requires good communication, frequent communication. And in my parents’ case, it involved people staying overnight with my dad and staying overnight with my mom and realizing that my mom couldn’t take care of my dad anymore. 

There was going to need to be intervention. Other people were going to have to become involved. And so, this takes lots of talk and lots of communication one way or another. There reaches some point for most of us when our children’s decisions become better than ours. And so that doesn’t happen quickly, and there’s no defining point. 

But we have to realize that other people can sometimes make better decisions than us. So, Roger, one of the things that, as you were talking about that, just a comment, struck me as you were talking about the physical and you were talking about the mental impact. And the decisions that have to be made and how cognitively sometimes things are changing. 

But what I have experienced too, and I’d ask you to think about, is something in the area with the emotions as we’re dealing with the loss of that and the loss of some of those capabilities. Did you experience that with your family? I know we did a bit as well as there was some emotional piece that stuck out as we walked through that spot. 

Sure. Yeah. The losses are many, and of course these tie into grief counseling as well, because people deal with grief generally because of losses, and losses can come in many ways, but with our aging parents, one of the losses that’s going to happen is independence, and one of the losses is probably going to be health, and one might be thinking ability. One might be mobility and there are many losses. It could be the loss of a driver’s license. It might be that it’s wise for our aging father not to drive anymore. To be able to explain that is hard. They don’t understand why children are taking away their driver’s license. 

And so, there can be a relinquishing of control if it can be done gently and with love and in kindness, that’s great. If it can be accepted, that’s fine. We’re all going to meet our Maker. We’re all going to have an appointed day and we don’t know when that is, but getting up to that point is sometimes a scary proposition and it takes management in the case of a family to help mom and dad get to that point. As you’re sharing that, I just remember some words that my mother shared as she was walking into this place of losing more capability. She says, I’m not afraid to die, but she said, I’m just afraid of the process. 

Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Our thoughts and feelings are complex and confusing. I would imagine through this process, there are plenty of reasons where guilt would creep in. Guilt says I just made that decision. Was that more for me or was that more for mom? Sure. I do believe that guilt is going to be present however it’s done. 

In my family’s case, my dad never wanted to be in a nursing home. And he made that clear to us children. We, as a family, as a sibling group, could see that mom and pop could no longer take care of themselves and they needed to move out of their home in Smithville. Okay, so the next step was going to an apartment close to the Rittman Nursing Home. 

And it’s fortunate that there are a series of apartments. There’s a complex there. And so, he did not want to do that until he says, well, I’ll maybe move there if you let me draw my own apartment. And the Rittman brothers just played that one great. And they said, sure, Brother Arthur, you make a drawing and they followed it. 

They let him make their apartment just as they wanted. And so, it was easy for my dad and mom then to move into that apartment. Well, going to the nursing home was the next step, but they were right there. And he still adamantly refused. I’m not going to go to a nursing home. And it was clear from our family from the siblings that mom could not take care of him. 

And so, the day came that my dad went in the nursing home and then the guilt came. Here’s where we got to this topic. It was about guilt, and then my dad lashed out. And so that’s the guilt. Parents don’t always understand. We won’t always understand what our children do for us.  

What I really appreciated in that story, Roger, you showed how dignity was given to your father as he was transitioning. The creativity that your family had in saying, okay, how can we give control to dad because we’re taking some away? And that helped that transition. Control is what we as people tend to want. And so, for our loved ones, if we can help them gain some control of their life through little ways or big ways. And so whatever we can do to help them retain a little sense of control over their lives, that will be good. 

Just to your point there about the regret about the emotional struggle of saying, okay, we’ve gone against dad’s wishes here. Tim, I would imagine those types of things could really haunt you if you don’t process them. Yes, that gets into some very sensitive areas and when do you move towards palliative care? When do you move to hospice? Help them so that they can make the decisions as much as they can along that path. But recognizing that you’re doing that out of love and you’re going to have all kinds of second thoughts and things like that. And I think that’s where the issues come in even with siblings and things like that.  

There is no perfect answer though. The only decision that’s being made is the time because the decision will be made, but at what time? I think sometimes we have this utopian view of how we would like to see it go. And even as we speak to our parents, some of them say, well, I don’t want to go into the home. 

Well, that may not be a choice for us. I can tell you that my father has gone into the home. It’s like, he thought, boy, I wish that we would have done this sooner. Like Roger spoke earlier, all those losses and those things really forces into decisions that we don’t want to make, but if we can make them as proactively as possible, the better off we are, but at some point, hard decisions are going to be made. 

You know, I just want to accent something that both of you alluded to, and that is the tremendous care our elderly facilities in our church provide for our seniors. And I don’t know the history of our nursing homes in the Apostolic Christian Church. But there was a heart and a vision decades ago to care. And to help cradle end of life and what a testimony to the gospel we see in in our facility. So, I just wanted to accent that point. I am overwhelmed with how much work and how wonderful the care that our homes provide. And I would tell you that the states that inspect them would probably tell you that they are some of the best in the states that they are in.  

That is correct. And I would second that. And I believe that many, if not all of the people who work in those facilities, consider themselves a ministry and not just a job because they are serving and they go above and beyond what’s reasonably expected of an employee. 

What advice do you have, or do you find you commonly give to people who are walking this road currently, based on your experience? And I’m thinking a little bit, what larger view should we have that kind of carries all of this, so that we don’t despair? I am of the mind that everybody’s situation is different. I think Brother Tim mentioned that, and that is true. And I think it’s a combination of cultural factors. It’s a combination of familial factors and a combination of health. 

It’s what you’ve had as core beliefs. And I think that everybody’s situation is going to be different. I don’t think there’s two people or two families that do this exactly alike and I think that’s okay. That’s all right. I’ve seen some that have done very little planning for the care at the end of life. 

But I saw my mother walk it and it was interesting to me to watch her because she had, over time, accumulated some dishes and things like that. As she saw that she was going to, at some point, have to downsize, she started just giving more things away to her children to her grandchildren, and she loved giving her things away. 

And by the time she passed away, she had very little left to give away. And it was actually a really good example to me. To see that Tim, there’s something so incredibly beautiful with what you’ve just painted is this picture of letting loose of our grasp on this world, which comes with loss. 

And we’ve already spoken of the deep pain of that loss. But what your mother was able to do was to redeem the loosening of her grasp and found joy in giving away that plate and found joy in saying, oh, this will really bless somebody. And while she was blessing another person, she was doing that hard thing of loosening her grasp. 

Yeah. And that comes at a different point for everybody. I think there’s a time, Brother Tim, when your mom probably collected plates. Exactly. She probably accumulated them. And then at some point she decided, okay, so it’s time to quit accumulating. It’s time to start giving. And I don’t know when that happens. 

And I think it’s probably different for each of us, but it’s good for us to understand the apostle’s words that we brought nothing into this world and it’s certain we can carry nothing out. I think too, there in Ecclesiastes, there’s a time for everything, right? One of the books on my shelf is written by a hospice doctor. The title of the book is The Four Most Important Things. And what he said as he has observed lots of people dying the families that have been able to say this to their departing loved one, and to hear that in return, go through this process so much better than others. 

The four statements are, thank you, please forgive me, I forgive you, I love you. And this is most important. Roger, I feel like those four keys are really the cradle that we walk with these days with. Probably all of us have seen some examples where those statements weren’t used as we got closer towards the end of life in some people’s lives. 

And even after the person has passed, maybe even into that time of how do you work through the estate or those types of things that are left over and the inheritance piece of that, you start to walk into that space and if you aren’t using those four statements or if you haven’t used those four statements in a while, you can start to build some pretty strong walls and you can have some pretty interesting thoughts about each other that really don’t bring a lot of grace to the situation.  

Yeah, really Tim. Thank you. You really broached a huge concept of estates and inheritance and those types of things. Those are hugely impactful on the way we process, and further confuse the thoughts that we’re having, and have a great potential to be divisive. That is the difficult piece because as we walk into that space, you know, and there are some people in the family that are converted and have a more eternal view of the way things are going to go. And even though something may be an heirloom, it may be something very costly or very valuable, there’s nothing more valuable than your relationship with your brother or sister. 

We know from Scripture that relationships are priceless. Number one, our relationship with Jesus Christ. And so, as we walk into that, and especially as we walk there, as a Christian, I think we really need to be aware of the Spirit’s work in our heart, that we can show forth that testimony of Jesus in that place. 

And yeah, it can be a very divisive place for families. And I think both you and I have experienced that and have seen that. Thankfully not so much in my own family, in the families that Deb and I have been a part of, but we have seen it in others and it’s difficult. I believe, and everybody in my sibling group, my family of origin, believe that Mom and Pop gave us their inheritance long ago through the faith that they passed down to us. 

I mean, I did not detect any grasping of that because the inheritance had been given long before. This topic has got lots of complexities and nuances and difficulties. We spoke of regret, but going back to those four phrases, Roger, that you mentioned. If we say thank you, if that’s part of our vocabulary through these days, I love you, I forgive you, please forgive me. If we have those as our attitude towards our siblings and towards our folks, well, we’re never going to have regret for those four sentiments, are we? That is correct. And if we say them to our parents and we hear them from our parents, we can just as well say them to each other because we never know when the last time is that we’re going to see each other. 

Yeah. Thank you both of you, Tim and Roger, for speaking from your experience. You opened yourself up for us to be able to look at it. Thanks both of you for sharing. Sure. Glad to be with you. Thank you, Matt. And to each one of our listeners, it’s great as always to have you along. All things of life concern us. 

And we pray and trust that this particular episode blessed you as we considered end of life. Thanks for being with us. Goodbye.