Vaping Podcast Episodes

December of 2018, the Surgeon General called it an epidemic as far as teenage vaping. And this year, there were about 3.6 million United States middle and high school students that had used e-cigarettes in the last 30 days. And so that was about 5 percent of middle school students and about 20 percent of high school students. 

Welcome to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. It’s great to have you along. Today I’m talking to Dr. Aaron Platner. And so, today’s topic is going to be vaping. We need a level set on this. I remember it’s been two years, three years ago, I teach some classes on a college campus and saw mysteriously smoke coming out of people’s mouths. 

And I remember being like, what is this? And it was vaping, right? Yeah, I think your exposure to vaping is pretty common to other people. Vaping is creating a vapor. It’s probably more technologized than aerosol, which basically means you have a component, and you transform it from the liquid form into more of a vapor or aerosolized form by heating it up with some sort of a coil. 

So, you can really vape anything that you can turn into a liquid. Most of the people are doing nicotine, that’s the most common. But CBD or THC like we talked about before with marijuana can also be vaped. And some other people have really tried the most random things such as energy drinks, peppermint, chocolate. 

Anything you can get into a liquid and heat up and turn into a vapor, you can actually inhale it. And I think even as I say that we see that there’s this whole kind of experimental or people can add or change the way they vape things. It’s very current, you can mix it in a day and an age where mixed drinks are vogue and mixed coffees are vogue. 

It’s not surprising that vaping and the ability to tamper and play with those ingredients would be part of its appeal. It would. And we think about even with younger people with technology, you can really use different vapes. To tweak how much you vape the temperature, and you can actually record it even into your computer. 

So, there’s this way that people can really tweak the technology in ways that are very beneficial for them. But the main difference we have is you have smoking cigarettes, which really has been on a downward decrease from the 1950s and the 1960s. And the main differences with smoking, right? 

That’s combustion, right? You’re heating up the actual tobacco leaf at a high enough temperature that it combusts or burns. And that’s where you get the end, which is red. You see the smoke coming off. And so, all those chemicals, some people say there’s about 7,000 chemicals that are inhaled. 

You smell it on people’s clothes, secondhand smoke. That’s what’s considered tar. That would be the very unhealthy part of cigarettes. So, we all know that as bad. The interesting thing is to take a look at how long it took us to get to that point was quite a process for another podcast. But it took us years for people to understand, yes, cigarettes are bad. 

We have this gentleman in 2003, his name is Han Kik, who actually invented the e-cigarette of what we know now. Essentially, this is a Chinese pharmacist who couldn’t stop smoking because he was addicted to, some people would say the nicotine, some the other components in it. 

And he knew he needed to stop because he was having family members die. So, his whole purpose was to create a healthier form of ingesting tobacco. Now, if you want to stop smoking, which I would strongly encourage, you could do a nicotine replacement, such as a patch or a gum that you chew or lozenges that you suck on. 

There are other medications, but he just found none of these things were helpful because he actually enjoyed that hand to mouth experience. The ritual of it. 

E-cigarette, electronic cigarette, where basically he would put the liquid nicotine, and you have a couple pieces, so basically you obviously have the reservoir or pod which kind of holds the e-liquid or e-juice or whatever you’re going to vape. And even with that, we talk about varieties, you can have so many different flavors. 

You can have nicotine with mango or, there are things called cotton candy or unicorn puke. I mean, they just, all different flavors that you can have, which makes me concerned. You have the heating element, which is the atomizer. You have a power source, which is usually a battery, but some of them you can like hook into your USB port and charge it that way. 

And then you have a mouthpiece that you use to inhale. Okay, there’s a lot here even to unpack. One is this history thing. It came by way of trying to stop cigarette smoking. Yes, combustible cigarette smoking for a healthier alternative to stop smoking. There’s a very common percentage that’s been kicked around that e-cigarettes are about 95 percent more healthy than regular cigarettes, and that’s been verified to be up in that percentage, but as it was expressed, if jumping off of 100 ft building is smoking a cigarette, we may say jumping off of a building using a Juul is maybe not the hundredth story, but is it the 50th story or is it the 20th story? 

We just don’t know because this is so new. And even as we talk about tampering, it’s really hard to compare and look at data because we don’t know what people are vaping at what amount. A number of years ago, there were all of these young people dying of these lung problems who didn’t have any other problems and what they determined was they were vaping. 

These kinds of chemicals should not be inhaled. So, example, one of the things was called popcorn lung, which if you eat microwave popcorn, it has that buttery feel. That’s okay to eat it. We don’t encourage vaping or inhaling that. And that was from a factory where they’re making this. And the workers were inhaling this chemical to give that buttery popcorn and their lungs were getting destroyed. 

And so, we had people vaping that because it was made by someone off the street and dying. So that’s the real struggle of what are you exactly vaping and inhaling in your lungs. When we talk about the ritual. There is a replacement of the old-fashioned cigarette ritual with the e-cigarette which was really to the point of the originator that he needed that ritual which I find fascinating. 

Yeah, I mean, we are a people of habit. I think it’s a question if we develop good or bad habits. That’s one of the concerns with teenagers who have been so interested in this. We know the brain doesn’t fully develop till 25, so the brain is what we say plastic, or it can really change and mold appropriately. 

So, if we have a bunch of kids smoking or developing these habits at very young ages, The question is, what does that mean down the road? And with the vaping and juuling, we just don’t know. You know, what kind of regulation is there at the moment? Yeah. Because nicotine, technically you need to be over 18 to purchase. 

Just touching base on nicotine. We know nicotine is a stimulant that goes to your brain. I mean, when you inhale that, you think about your lungs, it has so much surface area with all that blood being exchanged with carbon dioxide and oxygen. So, it’s going to go to your brain very quickly. 

The quicker we can get something to the brain, the more addictive it is. So, you know, inhaling is very powerful because it acts very quickly. So, Cool. What we know is when we inhale nicotine, it goes to the brain, it acts as a stimulant, and it kicks on that dopamine pathway, which is that reward pathway. 

And so, people find nicotine to be very relaxing. It can be very comforting and just very soothing. And hey, let’s be honest, every morning when I wake up, I have a strong cup of coffee and I probably have the same like, ah, deep breath of like, I could do this. Yeah. Hey. Alright, so Aaron, I’ve got a question. 

I’m curious here if there’s something to this. It’s one thing for a chemical to go into your bloodstream, and then to your brain, right? But then there is another, maybe it’s not being absorbed, maybe it’s clinging to the wall of your surface area of your lung. If you think about our lungs, it’s very big precious sensitive tissue. And so, you have all of these different filters from your nose hairs down throughout your trachea, all of these things try to keep your lungs safe. Inhaling a heated vapor into your lungs was once again chemicals. We’re not a hundred percent sure what they can do long term Can have some problems. 

We just don’t know what they might or might not be what what’s the content of a physical cigarette and then compare that to the e-cigarette or the Juul. So, the Juul pods, which are the most common ways that people are vaping, but a Juul pod has about 200 puffs. And so, if you look at 200 puffs, one Juul pod can be about equal to 20 cigarettes which is about one pack.  

So, I think it’s easy for us to see a package of cigarettes with 20 different cigarettes, the ashes, the butts that are left over. You can see how much you’re actually smoking, and it takes you about seven puffs of cigarette, which 140 cigarettes, you know, 140 puffs per package. 

But with a Juul pod, if you’re just kind of puffing here and there all the time, you don’t have to light it or not. You can really puff 200 Puffs pretty quickly. And so, when we talk about the addiction component, that’s a concern. When we hear stories of kids saying I can’t stop puffing and I’ve noticed I’m puffing more and more every day and I’m puffing through one or two pods a day. 

That’s a concern roughly equal to one or two packs of nicotine cigarettes a day that happens so easily and so quickly because it’s just so convenient. And so not everyone that juuls or vapes is going to get addicted. But whenever we do that, there’s always a certain component of people that will. 

And so, the more people that vape. And the more they vape, the more likely they’re going to be addicted. And the simple definition I have for addiction is use despite harm. You use something continually despite the fact that it’s harmful. Okay, how about, is there such a thing as vaping without nicotine? 

So yes, there are some ways that people can just vape the flavors. Right. And once again, there’s a whole variety of flavors. So, with the potency, you can modify to however little, if any, nicotine that you want. But the concern is the reason people are vaping because they are getting that reward pathway of the nicotine in there. 

But yes, it is possible to vape without any nicotine or CBD or THC, but just to have the flavors. Yeah, and you’ve even alluded by some of these comments already that this is popular among youth and what might be the reason for that? Well, one really neat study from a doctor at San Diego State University basically went to Twitter from 2012 to 2015 and collected every Twitter thing that you could find that talked about tweets about e-cigarettes, such as like electronic cigarettes, electronic cig, e-cig or vape. 

And basically, what they found was that people vape, because there was low cost, so it was pretty cheap. There were lots of different flavors they could choose from. They felt that it was safe. In fact, when they asked a lot of young teenagers, there was a certain percentage of people who had no idea that nicotine was actually in it. 

You can use it indoors. And it had a favorable odor. And then they mentioned social image. And then yes, it was quitting regular cigarettes. Sometimes it goes by the name of anxiety pin, right? Which I think is also telling that it’s used to curb anxiety. And so why don’t you speak a little bit about the anxiety? 

And in particular, maybe the anxiety of this age group that we’re speaking of. So, we are finding that this generation, I think we’re in Gen Z now, is much more anxious than the other generations before that. Now, lots of different reasons around that. We even talk about social media. I mean, seeing social media and the pressures that younger people have, we see that anxiety is spiking. 

Once again, getting back to nicotine. If whenever you feel anxious, you can kind of get this nicotine hit this kind of stimulant effect. It can be very relaxing for people, and it can also be very comforting. So, if you associate vaping as a anxiolytic or a way to decrease anxiety, there’s no doubt that it does. 

But if you can carry around this little stick that every time you puff makes you feel relaxed, well, it’s an easy way to really quickly treat that anxiety. And I would say, hold on, there’s no doubt that it’s going to reduce your anxiety, but is this a healthy way to deal with your anxiety? Are we cutting you off at the knees, so to speak, of learning different coping skills, learning different ways to work through your anxiety? 

Yeah. Well, you perceive my question then, Aaron, because as a psychiatrist, you understand medicine very well. And so, I’d like you to speak a little bit to this, to tease this out a little bit. How should we understand, I mean, could we call nicotine a medication in a sense? How should we understand this as medication for anxiety? 

We know there are many other medicines for that, so as we think about anxiety, in and of itself is a healthy thing. When I drive from Michigan to Illinois and I go on the expressway around Chicago, I know exactly what you’re talking about, just to be with my family. I should be a little anxious about these cars going very quickly. I think in Joliet the speed limit’s 55. 

No one’s going 55 and so I need to be a bit anxious just to watch out on the roads, but when I get to the destination, I feel like I can just take a deep breath. I don’t carry that anxiety with me. And I think when people are doing things for the first time, they need to be anxious because they’re aware of what’s around them. 

It’s helpful for them to learn those things. But if that anxiety continues, it’s going to wear people down. Anxiety is healthy at specific times for specific situations, but to expand it beyond that, the body just isn’t created or meant to be in that constant state of anxiety. So that’s where we can do different things for anxiety, such as, reading the Word, praying, seeking counsel, Bible study, those sorts of things are very helpful to remind us of God’s goodness and his grace and his provisions. 

Other things we can do are keep ourselves healthy, diet, exercise, those sorts of things. You’re just going to have more anxiety if your body’s not healthy. We all don’t get as many hours of sleep as we’re supposed to. You know, seven to nine hours, getting good sleep is going to help reduce anxiety. 

And I think there are a group of people who just lean to be a bit more anxious. That’s their kind of their mode. That’s where they have tendencies. That’s their leanings. When things become stressful, some people just kind of shut down. Some people get more anxious. And so, we have to learn how to deal with anxiety through different healthy ways. 

But for some people, like we mentioned in one of our earlier podcasts about psychiatry, some people might benefit from a lower dose of medication to just kind of get control of the anxiety. But I don’t think that the medicines in and of themselves have certain long-term benefits. Health concerns would say that something like nicotine does have long-term unhealthy effects. 

Is that in the combustible form with cigarettes? We know that’s true. That’s in the information. The concern is once again with vaping especially with young kids. Are we teaching them to deal with anxiety in incorrect ways? And they’re not going to learn the coping skills that they should or need to. 

Yeah. And so here we have a good rationale for an age limit, 18 years or whatever, to say, our young people, we need to grow up and understand anxiety for its value. And then learn how to work through it apart from crutches or these things that we will look to, to bring us through those moments, because it’s important for our maturity, but I also think it’s important for our church body as a whole. I think when I look at the different churches that I was a part of through schooling and everything else, there are specific times where there are specific pressures or anxieties placed on different people. 

And when they reached out to their local church body, their brothers and sisters who then came alongside them and helped them walk through them, that forged different bonds of community of brotherhood, reliance that I would say even to this day have been very healthy of the Body of Christ the church, working together as that body And I know Paul talks about when one body area is weak the other ones are going to come along and help and so if you’re turning to nicotine for your anxiety and maybe not even looking to your church body, you’re really cutting off some opportunities to really grow healthy relationships that down the road will be beneficial. What if someone helps you during that time and then they’re at a time of need, you’re going to just be much better able to walk through that with them and that relationships aren’t even forged. So, I really cringe to think that people could be relying on their plastic Juul. 

Yeah, instead of their brother or sister in Christ. Yeah, and I really like how you put that in the purposes of seeing larger purposes for how God works these things in our lives, and how he wants us to work through him. And it does bring to thought, and I know we’re not talking about alcohol, but in Ephesians 5 it does say, don’t be drunk with wine, but be filled with the Holy Spirit. 

You almost get a sense there that Paul’s making a similar distinction, saying, oh, you’re leaning on the wrong thing here, to be drunk with wine, while what you should be is you should be filled with The Holy Spirit, suggesting that it is a counterfeit to the real thing. Does that fit in this context as well? 

I would agree. I think that to be controlled by the Spirit means our lives are changed by it. And that is a healthy way to move through life, not being controlled by other substances, which Paul also says, are these things permissible? One could argue, yes, but are they wise or are they helpful? 

And he says, I will not be under the control of them. I will not let them control or dictate the way my life is to run. Are they addictive? I’m assuming they are because nicotine is. Yeah. So, nicotine is addictive. We do know that if you’re going to get addicted to nicotine, you’re most likely to get addicted to nicotine at a younger age. 

You generally don’t see people getting addicted to nicotine past their thirties, forties, fifties. If you’re going to be a smoker, you started smoking at a much younger age. Once again, getting back to the brain’s plasticity, how it grows and matures, and what it’s kind of connected or used to. And so, you’ll hear stories of people who stopped smoking successfully, but years later, they still yearn for just the smell, the relaxation, the flavor, the whole prospect. 

It doesn’t go away. Is that going to be with vaping? I certainly hope not, but we don’t know. And so, I think in all of the people and all these interviews and things I’ve read, that’s just been this common. We aren’t sure, but all the trends say this is probably not a good idea. Yeah. So, Aaron, I think I understand pretty well that nicotine and vaping, there certainly, you mentioned a stimulant, so there’s this anxiety calming effect. 

Is there any other altering in terms of the way a person would think when they are under the influence of a drug like that. Yeah, nicotine isn’t going to really get you intoxicated like we think of something like alcohol or anything else like that. So, I mean, in some ways people would say it makes them feel more alert, sharper, those sorts of things because it does treat their anxiety. 

So, you know, obviously if you took excessive amounts, you could have nicotine toxicity, but that is a lot of nicotine. So, I think people using it from day to day probably aren’t going to have any huge issues on those day to day like if someone’s drinking alcohol or using other substances, but it’s just a combination of things. What does that look like down the road? 

Yeah, and then we’ve already mentioned marijuana. That would have a completely different effect then. Yep. So, if we’re vaping marijuana, the THC in particular, you can all obviously be hot. But you know, people can vape alcohol, right? I mean, if you can turn it into a liquid, you can vape it. 

So, that’s where we don’t really know what people are or are not vaping and what that may or may not be doing and so you have an entire culture this whole vape culture where they have conventions where they get together and they have competitions of ways to blow different vape cloud. Cloud chasing they call blowing the biggest cloud for the longest time and then there are these people that do these vape tricks Not exactly encouraging it, but they do some pretty incredible things. 

So, I mean, you just have a whole society that is just around all of these vaping things and what they can do. And so, they share ideas, and they share new flavors of different things like that. And so, you’re building not only like concerns for the addictions of nicotine, but you’re building a whole fascination. 

Yes, a whole fascination, a whole identity, if you will, in nicotine and in a community. People get together in these vape shops, they vape at vape bars, playing pool or playing darts, whatever. It’s a very social activity. A new recreational activity. Yes. In a sense. Yes. Or maybe you could say a renewed one, a new medium of the old cigarette or cigar into a new culture. 

I think that’s helpful, Aaron, because it just helps us kind of understand our world a little bit better. Our culture helps us understand our own children, our own kids and where they’re at with that. So, a parent finds this on their kid, coaches, should we freak out? I don’t think it’s ever good to freak out. 

I just, I haven’t learned a lot about parenting, but freaking out usually doesn’t do the job. So, what I’m hoping is as we have these relationships with our children, when these things step in, I don’t think it’s something to obviously freak out about, but I also think it is something to get them to think about number one, why are you doing this, who are the friends that you’re associating with? 

What is this going to lead to down the road? How is this something that is glorifying to God? And once again, just take that caution of, I know it tastes good, it may taste like mango or peppermint or whatever. That doesn’t always automatically mean it is good. And so, I think having an open, honest conversation with your kids knowing what it is and being able to talk about it is going to be helpful and even asking your kids, why are you doing this? What is this doing for you? Help me understand that and opening up those conversations so that you can kind of direct them excellent advice. And I think you’ve given us a lot of points to really facilitate that conversation. We find and search for a lot of things to soothe us, don’t we? 

And I think addictions are one of many ways, but I think our conversations that we might have with our kids, or this audience is going to be pretty expansive. When we start to talk about the things that soothe us and the things that we use to soothe us because the conversation is quite expansive when we think about what we eat, for example, and our diet, for example, and the Scriptures warn against gluttony, like it warns against other vices. 

So, I think the conversation could be a helpful one to have. I think it could. I think opening up to our kids, what we can find soothing or comforting can be a real way. And hopefully we’re modeling that. Yeah. Because one other thing I’ve learned about kids is they’re amazingly perceptive. You know, they really are. 

And I think, wonderfully, as we go back to Christ and find him fulfilling, I think we read that he is sufficient, right? Which is a tremendous word. When you think of the reasons why we go to vice. He is wonderfully sufficient. And so, with that sufficiency of Christ comes a great deal of freedom. 

Thank you, Aaron, for this update and this level set on vaping. Thanks for offering your expertise and giving us a lens that a few of us have, so appreciate it. Glad to help. And thank you each one for being here and for listening in. I hope that you found, as I did, this conversation to be helpful, to be informative. 

Thanks, each one for being here. Have a great day.