Helping our Kids Explore their Identity Podcast Episode

You know, if we think about identity, it’s who I am, what makes me unique, what is my skill set, and exploring helps narrow that down. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. Excellent to have everyone along. Brian Sutter is with me and Kathy Knochel. 

Thanks for coming into the studio today. Glad to be here. We’re going to talk about parenting kids through the identity exploration. That’s a mouthful. So, let’s first unpack identity a bit, which is the topic we’ve talked about. It’s not all that unfamiliar. Identity, I think, is a household term. 

Yeah. I’m not sure it would have been even 15 years ago. No, it seems like it’s pretty popular right now, but it’s just come on the stage and you hear it all over the place. Identity has been always a thing. It’s a very human thing. But we are putting words around it because we see how significant it is, which is probably a tip to the culture and that type of thing. 

Let’s revisit identity shortly so that we can see what it is again. We’re really talking about the perspective of our kids, because as parents, we watch this whole thing unfold with our kiddos, and sometimes it’s pretty frightening, and we don’t know when to step in and when to step out, and it seems in my experience, I’m always doing the wrong thing. 

So, I’m glad for some direction here. So, let’s set the stage for identity again. Well, I think at a very high level, it’s just answering the question of who am I? And a lot of that’s going to revolve around what do I do? Where are my interests? And just as you think of a person, the things that come to mind would be a part of their identity. 

Yeah, and I think along the way with that is you find out who you are not, too. That balance of who am I and who am I not. I think that overall ability to have a healthy sense of self helps guide all the decisions and even like friend’s groups or activities or that sort of thing that you join. 

And so just that core of who am I? Where do I fit in? What makes me unique? What makes me, me? Having that settled answers a lot of questions. Okay. So that’s very helpful. Even when you say decision making. So, decision making is key. I think one of the categories that we think about certainly is a Christ-centered identity. 

Right. Which we want to say right here off the outset is the identity where all other identities fall in line. But we’re not going to necessarily focus on the Christ identity. Not because it’s not important. It is. Right. But we just want to acknowledge we all have identities. I identify as a teacher. 

I think that’s who I am. I’m a teacher and I think everybody has those things. This is who I am and there’s a place of belonging and groundedness that helps me make decisions and those types of things among other things. So, is it fair to say that what we’re talking about here today includes Christ? 

I guess I don’t want to say it doesn’t, but we’re allowing more in our thinking than just that. Yeah, for sure. And I think when we think about the topic of identity, having to look at it in all the different aspects of life. And along with that, I think one of the things to remember is as we start to explore who we are and maybe what our strengths and weaknesses are, what our interests are, one of the challenges sometimes with identity is that leads us in a path or towards different things than somebody else. And then wrestling with, is that okay? Is it okay for me to be a teacher? You know what? I wish I would have been a doctor. And that can be challenging, especially for kids as they look at their peers and helping them be settled, and you know what? 

It’s okay if this is where your interest is, if that’s even in a different place than somebody else. You know, and I think it’s fascinating, too, we see that identity is constructed differently in different cultures. Sure. And I think we commonly understand that we live in a very individualistic culture, which then means the identity is somewhat constructed individually, which as parents, I want actually more role in helping my kids with a settled identity. 

And interesting enough, in some cultures, I would have a larger role. Right. I think if you were to go to the Far East, you find a collective culture where the clan and the group do have a larger sway and this is who you are, but that’s not the air we breathe, which is just a thing, right? Right. And I think that’s a really important point to just acknowledge both. 

And even like Kathy had mentioned a few minutes ago, this identity like a sense of self, who am I individually, can be, I mean, that’s the primary focus of our context that we are in and to help our kids think through that. But also, I think we would want our kids to be able to think about, okay, what’s it mean to belong to a group? 

And that’s going to bring maybe some restriction or freedom, depending on how you look at it. And that’s important too. And from a Christian worldview, that’s a really important part of identity that sometimes isn’t quite as predominant in our present culture. I think one of the other things that I’ve just observed, which is tough, is because we’re an individualistic society, identity is constructed by the individual and early. 

So, at 18, at 15, kids are trying to figure out who they are, and if they’re constructing that individually, we have a 15-year-old brain figuring this out. And that’s where the anxiety and the heart rate for parents go up. Right. Big decisions are being made. Whether it’s their worldviews or their belief systems and they’ve got to own it themselves. 

You know what I mean? I wish we could push it off. So, one of the things I think that’s really tricky in some ways, Matt, that you’re correct that people are being forced to identify identity early on and in other areas, actually that’s extended. So, for example, people would have decided a career much earlier in life a few generations ago but today that’s pushed out and so that aspect of identity has been extended where as some other things with identity that I would say are maybe kind of more core to personhood and things that would even be closer connected to biblical, the worldview, those kinds of things are sometimes pushed earlier now. And kids have so many options that the landscape is pretty scary. And I think that’s part of what feeds the anxiety for parents. It’s like, wait a second. I thought we were talking about whether or not you’re going to be a teacher or a construction worker. 

And now we’re talking about like where you land at some really deep things at age 15 and that can be pretty scary. Yeah. I agree with that, Brian. And I think that’s why the tension is teens do need the input from people around them while they’re doing all of this. But there’s that worldview of the individualness of it. 

They want to figure it out. They want to be left alone. But that’s a tension that has to be managed by having people around them speaking into it in the right way. And to your point, Brian, about careers being left later in life, there are identities that have long been settled that now in today’s climate are being questioned. Exactly. Gender is certainly one. And maybe somebody coming to listen says, oh, maybe they’re going to talk about gender identity. Well, that is a subset of this larger topic that we’re going to talk about. We’re not talking today about gender identity, although some of what we say certainly applies. 

Right. So, Kathy, you made this comment about the role others play, and I think we’re getting to that now. Let’s lay it out a little bit, refresh our memories about how identity is constructed, how do we get to a settled place, what does that path look like, lay out that landscape. Well, one of the things to think about when it comes to this area of identity where it’s become a household term today, well, historically, and one of the ways it’s thought about is that identity comes from exploration. You get the opportunity to explore different ideas, options, and think through what seems to fit, what doesn’t fit. And through that exploration, then you move into commitment of, oh, okay, I think this is what fits for me. And it doesn’t work quite that linearly, but you know, the process from exploration to commitment tends to be the process by which identity comes. Kathy, what is that exploration then? What purpose does that play? Leading to commitment, right?  

Yeah. Well, I would say just the ultimate purpose is finding the things that actually do fit. It’s the things that, if we think about identity, it’s who I am, what makes me unique, what is my skill set in exploring helps narrow that down. I think what is interesting though, is there are a lot of barriers that can be faced through that piece. 

And I think that’s a really important piece of what we’re trying to do. What our family does, or this is the family culture of things, but then they are around their peer group, but this is how my peers are talking about it. So, I think those are some of the barriers there of trying to find out that sense of self. Who am I in the context of my family versus in context of my friends. And then also in the activities that I want to do those are all barriers that are faced through that exploration time and that goes two ways and a separation from, and a unification with, right? Identity does both of those things. I mean, if somebody steals my identity it’s understood that they stole my uniqueness. 

Right. And so, their identity calls for uniqueness, but yet it also calls for I belong to this group. Right. Which are just more colors to the painting. And it’s so fascinating even for my kids that are more on the younger side of things where you can see exploration and generally that exploration is something that we are a little bit more comfortable with. 

So, for example, when my son says, hey, I want to go do choir this year at school. Great. Go explore that. See if that’s something you like. And then by the end of the year, he’s like, you know what? I don’t know if I’m going to do that next year. So that’s part of that. Does he have your gift for music? Yeah. You know those that know me that music is just not really high on my giftedness. We’d love to hear it. You know, I would sing a song for you, but then everyone would leave. And so, for him to be able to sort through that has been really good. And then also for him to be able to think through like, just because somebody continues with choir doesn’t mean that you can’t be friends or that you can’t be unified as humans or you can do other things together. 

But there is some separation there and helping them think through that in a healthy way, I think it’s just an interesting journey. And there’s beauty of kids being able to do it well at that age because it sets them up for more success in the bigger, more life impacting ways. Exactly. So, let’s set up the mindset then. 

What is the mindset you as a parent have as you see your son? Yeah, well, I think when the year started, what I wanted to do was say, Bud, it’s time. You’re my son, this is not going to go well and you’re going to realize you can’t sing. And that’s kind of a big part of being in the choir, but the mindset of like, oh, he wants to do this. 

He’s excited about it. Like, why not? Why not give him the opportunity? And if he ends up loving it, that’s great. I would be surprised, but that would be great. So, let’s just give it a try. And again, at a young age, when they’re doing things like choir, that feels a little safer, but that same kind of mindset I think applies as we move forward into things that are a little harder. 

It feels safer, but I would wonder, Brian, if you face that same discomfort of like, where do I step in? What is my role? Almost wanting just to guide him to something that you can tell is maybe more his skill, but the need to just let him figure that out. Okay. So, let’s take something more difficult. 

Right. Let’s take something like faith. Which is very much part of our identity, what it is we believe. Right. And we very much teach our kids what to believe. That’s good parenting, I think. Right? Yeah. But at some point, they have to own it themselves. And those can be difficult waters to watch your kids go through. 

Right, exactly. But I think one of the things you mentioned there is such an important point, Matt, is if we think of the goal as being commitment, then that helps put me in a better mindset to be open to that. If my child gets to a place of following Jesus and having faith in Jesus, I want that to be a commitment that they’ve come to, and I think that will bode well better for them to hold on to faith and live out faith over the course of life, whereas if I’m the one that’s working things behind the scene and forcing it without giving any opportunity for exploration, that commitment is going to be much harder to come by. 

Something like faith, I would imagine as a parent is a little bit more of a guided hands on or walking with them as they’re exploring verse some of the easier ones like choir, like you didn’t really have to have a lot of input on that other than like oh, okay. Or maybe a few questions, but the side by side walk that you have with kids through questions and curiosities about things like faith. 

There’s some difference there. Yeah. And that’s where I think even just to see it as a journey in some ways, the visual that comes to mind is that when my child is 10, I’ll put them in a swimming pool and there are boundaries around that. So, there’s still danger there and there’s the opportunity to go in the deep end or go off the diving board. 

And in that I’m going to keep an eye on it, but there’s exploration and they learn how to swim. But then as they get older, they keep moving forward. And now I’m sending them out into what feels like the ocean and they’re on a board with a paddle and that’s much scarier, but hopefully along the way, we’ve had some boundaries. 

We’ve given some guidance and now they’re willing to say, okay, I’m going to keep in so I can still at least see the shoreline as I’m coming out here and I’m going to take certain things with me or people with me. And I’m going to be thinking through, and hopefully they’ve learned some skills like critical thinking and that’s going to guide them so that they don’t get all the way out into the middle of the ocean, but that’s a possibility. 

So, I really like critical thinking. Now you’ve really put your hands on a skill set that is very tactile, and so building critical thinking skills is something again we do from little on up, but you’re seeing it now in context of it’s going to be important if I do all the critical thinking for my kids, I’m chasing down my point. 

If I do all the critical thinking for my kids, it does not set them up for proper exploration and then solid commitment. And I think, unfortunately, there can be a tendency towards that for parents. Sometimes it’s just out of love for your kids because you want to see them do their best, but it’s also sometimes driven by fear. 

There are other things there too, but fear of like, I don’t want to see them fall. Or if I just do this for them, the assumption that it will help them land in the right place. They really don’t land in the right place until they’ve been able to do some of that exploration themselves. And hopefully as they’re doing that we’re helping them ask the question of what is it that I want or what is it that I like? 

And for them to be able to see kind of that internal desire or dialogue and then we’re able to come alongside them and they’re able to ask those same questions as the questions get more difficult. But if they have insight into what they’re thinking and what they’re feeling and like, oh, does this actually line up? 

Does this make sense? Then it’s not just like when they get the question of, well, why do you think Jesus is the person to trust in? Well, I have no idea. I haven’t even thought about that. That’s just what I’ve been told. Oh, okay. And that’s scary. Yeah, and I think you partly answered the question I’m going to ask. 

Kathy, you said you don’t come to a good commitment without exploration. So, my question is this. There is commitment without exploration. What’s the problem with that? I think what we see is when there is commitment without exploration, there’s not a good root system developed. And so, I think that with the first life stress that comes or the first brush against a different idea, it’s easy almost, I think sometimes of like a chameleon of well, then maybe that fits too. And then there just isn’t the settledness because there’s not the deep root system in place there. So, you won’t really see the ill effect until challenge meets them, which life will challenge that identity. Yeah. And then it can go a variety of ways. 

Yep, exactly. And I think in general, that’s probably the identity. that we need to be thinking about most often within the church context is that we want to move people or our kids to commitment without any exploration, whereas I would say in the secular society, it’s almost the opposite. It’s almost like they would love to keep our kids always exploring with never moving to commitment and that’s the challenge or maybe the correction that we need to think about there. Yeah, so let’s paint, we have got two ditches here. 

One is that we don’t allow exploration, right? We make the decisions; we do the critical thinking for them. We tell them just exactly what it is they should believe and I’m sure this looks differently across the age band. Totally. To the other ditch which is totally hands off and says well I’m going to just let my kid figure it out and I’m not going to guide them in any way. 

Right. So, we can see the error in that. And so, we’re finding something in between. I would love to talk about this line that we walk. Well, I mean, I think that’s really the trick, Matt, is just to recognize that we want to be able to allow for both. We don’t want to give exploration that doesn’t have any guidance alongside that just leads them out in a really dangerous way, nor do we want to be so rigid that we don’t allow them to brush into other ideas or things that forces them to a conclusion before they’ve even had any time to explore. And I think trying to find out what that looks like, to walk that with discernment and based on our individual child, are they in a place where they’re mature enough to do exploration here? 

How would we think about doing that? Well, or is this a place of like, you know what, I don’t know that they’re quite ready for this, or we need to pull that back. And that’s really the challenge along this. You know, you mentioned the maturity to think and be critical thinking. I think maturity plays a large part in this. 

Somewhat familiar with educational theories, being a teacher. And those young age bands, they’re very didactic, which means true and false is how they think, black and white. And that’s a great time to build truth and error into our children. And then when they get to those young teens and into teens, they become critical thinkers able to weigh and pro and con and see the other sides of argument. 

And so, following that life stage as a parent is probably good wisdom. Oh, right. Yeah. And it’s interesting as you see teens walk through that. A lot of times they start to ask questions and sometimes they’re just trying to provoke mom and dad or push buttons to get a response. 

And if we can just sit and say, oh, that’s interesting. Well, what do you think about that? They don’t know, but this is just something they’ve heard or something that’s come up. And they don’t have any thoughts about it either. So, if we can push it back and, well, I’m curious, what would you say? Or how would you think through that? 

And it’d be a dialogue rather than, well, here, let me tell you what the truth is. Instead of allowing for this nuance and some exploration and some gray. So, Brian, you’ve just now gone under the hood a little bit with this critical thinking and that is questioning. Yeah. So, what I perceive you saying as parents, we should be pretty good at the craft of questions. 

Yeah. Right. If we’re going to do this. Yes, and certainly open-ended questions. That’s what I would say. The ability to ask a question that the teen can’t just stop the conversation with a yes and a no answer, but being able to ask, well, what do you think, or how do you feel about this? It forces space where they have to have an answer or get to engage in dialogue with you. 

And so, what should I be thinking in that dialogue? Say a little bit more about this questioning discipline. Yeah. Thank you. I think just to be able to say, I don’t have to force, this is the answer. We don’t have to get there today or in this dialogue. That’s what I think tends to get us into trouble. It’s like, I’ve got to get them to land here today by the end of this conversation. 

Whereas like, okay, this might be a bit of a journey. And if I can allow for some patience and like, hey, why don’t you think about this? Do you have a question you want me to think about? Just giving some time and just some openness. Hey, I’m willing to explore this with you, and if there is a right or wrong, or if there is truth, I’m confident that’ll come to the surface. 

Alright, so even out of my own experience, a couple of things come to mind. I picture myself, very often I do this, I bring closure and say, well, this is what historic churches believed, or I’ll say, well, this is what research is showing, or I’ll say, this is what’s happened over here. You know what I’m saying? 

How that brings closure as opposed to saying, what is research saying about that? Right. If that is taken to its end, what are you finding out about that? Yes. Yeah. That is scary. And I will say in some of the work with families that I have done, I think that’s what I see really drives the biggest distance between teens and parents. 

That is when these questions are asked when a parent is responding out of their own warning signs and alarm bells that are going off. They move to shut down the conversation by this is how it is or shift to long lectures of all of the reasons why you have to believe this way. The message that sends to teens is, you’re not open to having this conversation. 

Kathy, you ought to hear my lectures, though. Very winsome, I’m sure. My goodness, I just moved myself to tears. And it doesn’t move your kids to exploration. I know, Kathy. Parents are great with lectures. We convince ourselves so well. Right. But, okay. All right. Yeah, I hear it. Lectures always have diminishing returns and are never quite as helpful as I want them to be. 

Well, and there’s beauty in being able to just sit with your teen in that moment, but you have to be able to regulate your own, like, where is this going to land? That’s the work for parents in that. Here’s also what I’m wondering. I’m wondering if there is a skill set lacking in our youth that they need to employ in order to walk through this stage of exploration. Let me explain that a little bit more. Do they understand their role and how can we help them do that? So how should they be engaging us? Well, they’ve got to learn that someplace, right? That just doesn’t occur to them. It doesn’t just occur to a 14-year-old that maybe I should talk to grandpa about this, right? 

Because they got their data from, you know, Tik Tok, right? That might be a space, right? And I’m just curious what that even looks like to help our kids understand what they need to be doing. I would wonder about just even what’s modeled for them. Like if adults in their life are modeling that, even if it’s a little bit giving choice early on or engaging in conversations like, I heard about this new app out there. 

What have you heard? What’s going on with it? You know that sort of thing just modeled that there can be back and forth and not just parents, but just in all of the adult circles that they’re around. I think that’s just the first thing that comes to mind is the modeling piece. Yeah. And even when mom and dad get into a spot where we’re not sure what to do, or it’s kind of tricky, to just verbalize, you know what, I’m going to go talk to so and so. I think they maybe would have some experience. I think that would be another great way to just model this journey. And like you guys were saying, the earlier we can start this and help them think about what exploration and inviting people into that. 

When they’re on the playground and they start to develop that skill at a very young age when the things are small and pretty safe, that’s going to bode well for them as they move forward and it’s more complicated. 

Sometimes as parents, they are looking for separation from us. Who am I apart from mom and dad? Right. Which then puts us at a disadvantage to play this game. Because our advice, as good as it is, our questions, as good as they are, are losing simply because I’m dad. Right. And I’m trying to be separate from you. 

Speak to the place a larger community has in this identity settling. Well, I think when you think of it being in a larger context, it doesn’t just become anything but dad or anything but mom. There are lots of different parties that can play a role and you have different people that can give their experiences and share that. 

Well, and I would wonder, too, just the need for parents to be willing to allow the other voices, healthy voices, like in youth groups or whatever, to speak in if that’s encouraged, and not feeling like, hey, that’s my role. Sometimes all of that can come up a little bit. Yeah. No, I certainly agree. I’ve got children sorting a lot of these things out, 20, 18, 16. 

And I’m at the place right now where I feel like it’s my job to help put them in proximity to really good people who can help them, right? I can’t choose their friends, but I can with church and otherwise, prompt that exploration and engagement. We’re just so blessed to have solid folks around us. 

And I think anything we can do to just get them in the space of like, I’d just like you to think about it. Anything we can do in that space I think can be quite helpful, especially as they get older. If we move into this is where you have to be, this is what you have to do, it gets us back in that tug of war and they can win that if they want to. 

Yeah. You do all of this well. And then they make the wrong choice. They don’t land with them. Well, I think the first thing that comes to mind is it really depends on what stage of life they are, what their maturity level is, those sorts of things. And the hope there would be is if it’s at an early age and it’s a small hurt, that we come alongside them and we don’t lecture them about why they did this thing and they should have done this something different and I could have prevented this. 

It’s like, oh, you engage them with discussion and questions and hopefully that can be a learning experience. It helps build out some of that critical thinking and that gets much more difficult. But I think as they move forward, part of the challenge is to be able to say, okay, I’m here as a faithful guide, and I want to try to be faithful to that as a faithful parent. 

This is their journey, too, and what they decide today, they’re going to have to bear the responsibility for that and the consequences of that. And I want to be here as a safety net, as a help. And how do you do that exactly? That’s really tricky, but I think to be able to at least unload the responsibility of their decisions as they move into adulthood. 

Yeah, and I think even you said this, Brian, but it doesn’t even necessarily mean that you change who you’ve been as that consistent voice as the person that’s there to answer questions and be supportive. It doesn’t necessarily change your role. They probably will need that more than ever in moments like that. 

Yeah. And I really loved it, too, at the beginning, Brian, you mentioned a journey, that we recognize that it’s not closure. As long as there’s breath, there’s hope. Right. And as long as there’s breath, there’s life. As long as there’s life, there’s experience. And as long as there’s experience, there’s exploration and hope for a good commitment, right? 

We do change course. And that has got to be the perspective that we take, I think, as we see our kids go through and navigate these waters, which are difficult. Thanks both of you for being on. Thanks for your insights. Thanks, each one for listening in today. We trust and hope this has been a blessing.