Accepting Relational Influence Podcast Episode

At the end of the day, you need to make a decision, but when you make the decision, you make it very clear that you make it after you’ve been influenced and you’re responsive to that influence that you’ve received from your spouse. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

Excellent as always, to have you along. Relationships are going to be our subject of conversation. Kaleb Beyer is with me today. And Kaleb, you are continually thinking about how marriages can be made stronger and healthier. And you see that not only in the office, but also with the research that you do. 

So, we’re going to share a tip. Really. This is kind of a marriage tip. Yeah. That all right? Yeah. Which actually expands to a relationship tip. It really does. Yeah. It can. I mean, this tip can apply to relationships in the body, in the family, even relationships between parents and children. 

Yeah. So, let’s come out with it. What’s the tip? How would you summarize it briefly, and then we will unpack it. So, the tip is accepting influence, which is based on some research, but we would say also as believers, there’s quite a bit of scriptural backing for receiving one another, submitting one to another in the fear of the Lord is a form of being influenced. Yes. So, how did you say it? Accepting influence. Yes. Receiving or accepting influence. So, right out of the gate, let’s talk about what that means. Okay. So, what does accepting influence mean? 

What is it? Maybe juxtaposition it with what it’s not to help us understand. Pin in this idea of what it means to accept influence. So, accepting influence and receiving. It’s accepting your spouse’s perspective, their feelings and their needs. Acceptance doesn’t mean agreement. We’ve talked quite a bit about what acceptance means and doesn’t mean. Right. But in this case, acceptance is accepting influence. We can do it even when we disagree. We can be influenced by allowing others to shape or impact us. As I’m accepting your influence, Matt, it means that I’m changed as a result of that.  

Somehow, I would think this idea is really germane to what relationship means at one level. Right. Living human relationships are those relationships that when they intersect, there is a collective give and take. And impact mutuality, which we call influence. Yes. Without this, what exactly is the relationship? Yeah. We don’t have a mutual relationship.  

You must see this in your office. For sure. And it also flows out of research. So, if I can bore you a bit, it flows out of some research conducted by Drs. 

Gottman and Jacobson and it showed that in particular, men who accepted influence from their wives tend to have a happier and more satisfying relationship. Paradoxically, what the research also showed was when the more influence a spouse was willing to accept, the more influential they are. 

Oh, right. So, in my relationship with Ang, the more I’m willing to accept influence from Ang, consequently the more influential I am to Ang. In some ways, it goes along with the adage, that I’m sure you’ve heard, they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you care. Sure. 

Accepting influence at some level is communicating care. Okay. So now that’s interesting that the research you quoted had to do with men. Is there a flip side of the coin to that or is there a dynamic there for women as well? I’m just curious what the research is saying. 

Yeah, so certainly. It’s true for marriages in both instances that part of a healthy marriage is that the wife and the husband are accepting influence, but in particular, what the research found is that there seems to be something when the husband is accepting the influence that impacts marital satisfaction in a much stronger way. 

So, both need to accept influence. It’s not saying, oh, yeah it doesn’t matter if wives don’t accept influence. Yeah. But there is something about that and we could talk about what the research shows. What do you see when couples don’t allow each other to influence? What does that look like? So, not allowing influence certainly leads to disconnection. It leads to more conflict. It can lead to the “yes dear” syndrome. Have you ever heard of that? It’s like whatever you say goes. And then what happens in the relationship is there are not two people. Right. There is one saying, hey, this is how we’re going to do it. Yeah. And the other one goes along. 

That’s not accepting influence. Right. Okay. So, it seems like you’re really giving space for two sovereign individuals that both have their own will, in a sense, their own autonomy. The one is not collapsing into the other, and the other’s not collapsing into the one. They both have those independently and then live together with that. Yes. It’s really interesting that health is accepting influence. Yes, exactly. Yeah. And again, I think there is aspect of what it means to accept influence. Right. And so, as we think of Scripture, one of the things that comes to mind is in Proverbs where it talks about the multitude of counselors. 

Is there’s this sense that relationally accepting influence means we take the wisdom, experiences, and understanding of others and they begin to shape how we make decisions and what we do. And so, it’s saying I can disagree with you, and I can accept your influence. 

Those aren’t contradictory. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does. I’m saying yes to you, even when I say, ah, you know what, actually, I think I probably should do this. Yeah, that’s helpful. You just gave an illustration of what non-agreement means but yet with influence. Can you give another example of that? 

Yeah, so let’s just say the husband has been wanting to buy a shotgun for quite some time and he shares it with his wife and his wife says, you know, I think actually we’d be better off saving up for a family vacation this year. Right? So, they have different perspectives. 

And so, what does accepting influence look like? Perhaps it’s the husband reflecting, you know what, a family vacation benefits all of us. And related to where the finances are, I’m going to choose to wait on the shotgun. Right. Or a wife that would really like some quiet time or downtime for the weekend, and the husband really wants to invite someone over. You’ve got two different perspectives. Right? How do you step into that? You need to make a decision. And maybe the wife decides, based on knowing her husband loves to have people over and she’s in a place to do it. So, she accepts influence. 

So, based on where the husband’s at and what she knows about him, she’s influenced by who he is. Now, again, accepting influence doesn’t mean I’m just a yes person. Then go there a little bit. Yeah. So, what we should be hearing here is that yes does not mean accepting influence. There’s something more here. There’s something beneath the yes, correct? Yes. Accepting influence is about making space for and receiving this is who my spouse is. This is their perspective. This is their need. This is just their desire. And at the end of the day, there may be a no. Right. The wife may be like, I’m spent, I can’t do it this weekend. Yeah. But you know what? I know it’s really important to you. Yeah. And so, can we get something else on the calendar? It’s not just no, we’re not having it. 

You know what I’m saying? Yes. And it’s not just yes, exactly. Does this really require conversation? For two people who influence one another, does this fuel conversation? I’m wondering, because if we’re going to get behind the yes, there’s a lot of meaning there. Yeah. I’m just thinking out loud there. Yeah. Well, I’m not sure if this is where you’re going with that, but I do think so. At some level you need to know each other. Right. I need to know my spouse well enough to be influenced by them. Does that make sense? 

Yes. That’s helpful. I think it’s part of a relationship. Just the other day somebody was sharing with me that they showed up with a coffee and shared it with their spouse. They knew that they loved coffee. And so, a small act of kindness that is influenced by saying I’m going to share that. Yeah. And so, it’s not a conversation per se, but a deep knowing is required to live in a relationship where we appropriately influence one another. That’s helpful. Yeah.  

You know, there are some things that get in the way of accepting influence. Sometimes we’re just not great at accepting influence, whether it’s us being avoidant of a difficult conversation where we know we’re different or becoming defensive is also a barrier to receiving influence. If I’m defensive, I’m not in a posture of accepting, receiving, and welcoming the perspective or the feelings and needs of another. Right. Yeah. And then sometimes we have this all or nothing thinking. Black and white. There’s just one way. Yeah. And oftentimes things are more nuanced than just this is how it should be and that stands in the way.  

Does any of this play along the lines of the playbook that a person has coming into marriage? Like, this is my role in marriage. Does that make sense? And not having this idea of influence is important. Yes, for sure. As we think about what our influence is, I was recently reminded. When you go to look for a job, you have an interview. What do you bring? Your resume. They look at your history. When you go to a doctor for a checkup, what do they ask you? What’s your medical history? What about your parents or your grandparents? Any heart issues?  

And so, similarly as individuals, right? We come into a marriage with what? History. And some of that history can shape us in a way that if we don’t have a good model of receiving and accepting influence that can be received, that we disagree and still be in relationship. 

Yeah. Then it’s going to be really hard. It’s going to feel like there’s one winner. Right. It’s more of a win-lose. There you go. And so, yes, I think it’s shaped by our experiences in the family. How was conversation modeled when there were differences? Were they able to hear each other? Were they able to be influenced by and shaped by others or groups of friends? Yeah, I think we’re partly answering this already with some examples, but I really like how you mentioned defensiveness. I think it makes sense that it would be perhaps a sign that I’m not accepting influence like I ought. 

What’s behind some of the defense? What makes living like this difficult? Some things come to mind that make it difficult, Matt? So, if there has been ongoing hurt in the relationship. Where there is a relationship, where there’s safety, where we can openly share and hear each other or where it feels like we’re being attacked in the way something is shared as we’re communicating. It can certainly lead to a sense of defensiveness. Or a defensive response.  

And sometimes defensiveness just comes out of our own stress or what’s going on in our life. Or I was defensive to my wife on Sunday, and it didn’t have anything to do with her. She brought up a text from one of our kids and in my response to her, I was not receiving influence from her. And it didn’t have anything to do with her. Something else happened that morning that frustrated me and I was bringing that into the conversation and I was defensive. 

Lots of reasons. Pride would be another one. Yes. And maybe it goes back to that. If I’m a real black and white thinker, I’ve got the answer right. I resist your influence. That might be part of the posture that we can have. 

With humility and acknowledgment, I would have to think that it’s somewhat scary for some to say, okay, I’m going to step into this accepting influence because my spouse isn’t and it’s easier for us both not to than just me. It seems to me for this to be really healthy, we both have to do it. Yeah. Correct. Right. And I think, again, going back to research, paradoxically, when one starts to be influenced by the other, they have more influence on the other. So that’s the real key here. I think this conversation is a real help to that person who is afraid to try this. 

I think so. So, some of that is a conversation, Matt, like with a spouse or a friend. Where in this conversation, maybe that’s an exercise that we do right this next week. Where is a place where I can say yes to this person, even when I’m saying no to their particular perspective?  

Right. And how do I lean into that and communicate that and say, you matter to me. You are important to me. Your perspective is important to me. Even when I see it differently. Right. And I think that is like saying I’m receiving you and communicating that to you. Is it important for that? I’m wondering if there is value when saying that. 

Yes, when you can. When your heart says no, is it important for that to be made clear? Like you know what I’m saying? I’m saying yes to this, even though my heart is saying no, or like I’m just curious how we play this game in a way that communicates what we want to communicate rather than to your previous example, the husband saying, awesome, she wants people over. 

You know what I mean? Yeah. And she said yes when she was just being influenced. Yeah. All yeses are not the same. Yeah. And I think the nuance behind that and being able to communicate is really helpful. Because I think that’s also part of knowing your spouse. When they are at a place I know them, they would rather have a night off. Yeah. And they’re like, yes. Saying, okay that impacts me. Yeah. Or at least it should impact me. I think knowing your spouse is really key. And that doesn’t happen in the moment just as we live together. 

You know what, my wife doesn’t have a posture towards having lots of people over. And growing that awareness, I think, is key. And the other thing that you mentioned is honesty. Really, that’s what we’re looking for. Not trying to be disingenuous but being honest about our yes. 

Yeah, exactly. Being honest about our yes. And when we have a no about something. I don’t think we should do this, that it’s not a no to you. Right. You’re important to me. You matter to me. And actually, you bring some really important perspectives. Yeah. Even when actually, you know, I think we should do this. 

I think that’s key, Kaleb. I’m not saying no to the person, I’m saying no to something else. That’s deeply relational. What you’re calling us here to is to have deep relationships with our spouses or however this applies to the relationships we have. Sure.  

Yeah, yeah. I can see that in a father. How do I accept influence from my kids, even when I tell them I’d like them to do such and such. Yeah. And that’s receiving and accepting influence about where they are and their perspective and not just, you’re going to do this regardless. Yeah. In the area of not accepting influence, it is dismissing opinions, perspectives, and thoughts of another, whether that’s a spouse, a friend, or a child. Somehow that might be comparing us to others. My idea or thought is better. 

We can get into that as well, which puts us in a place where we’re not receiving, not welcoming, not accepting and saying yes to the other, but we’re in this place of putting ourselves over the other. Which goes back to the pride that we talked about rather than humility of receiving, but it breaks down the relationship rather than builds and deepens the relationship. 

I really like that example of being dismissive in the way that you painted that. There’s a way of not accepting influence that just keeps two people separated and not allowing the other person in. But the way you’ve painted that is like, no, that’s beneath me, type of thing. 

Right. Which is another insult to another level that breaks down influence. Yeah. What would be the next step? Or how would you help a couple excel at this? I think it is just really healthy for us to find ways to say yes to our spouse, even when we’re saying no to a certain decision or direction and explicitly being able to say that. 

Because there are going to be disagreements and we do need to make decisions and move in a certain direction. Yep. And so, at the end of the day. You need to make a decision. But when you make the decision, you make it very clear that you make it after you’ve been influenced and you’re responsive to that influence that you’ve received from your spouse. 

And that’s really helpful, Kaleb. I think that really says it well, and that we’re saying yes to the person. The decision might be no or yes, but whatever the decision is, it’s said with a yes to the person. Yeah. And that’s what we need to capture. Yep. 

Thanks a lot. Oh, I appreciate that. Super simple when it comes down to it, right? Yes. Simple but not easy. Much of life is that way. Thanks a lot, Kaleb. I really appreciate it. Thanks, each one for being on. I trust that this blesses you as you think about your relationships in many different places and what it looks like to be influenced and to influence. 

God be with you.