The Past’s Impact on the Present Marriage: Trauma Podcast Episode

Oftentimes, what we find in this space of trauma that has happened in the past is that the reactions in the present seem out of proportion to what you might expect. And so, it’s easy to perceive being the spouse of someone who has experienced trauma, you’re just overreacting. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

Wonderful to have you along today. I’m going to be talking to Kaleb Beyer. It’s good to be here, Matt. Kaleb, we’re going to talk about one of a couple of episodes that we hope to have in the marriage area where you’re going to speak about those things that happened in the past. As much as we would like them to just be in the past, they really play out sometimes in the present in marriage. So, I want you to introduce today’s topic and say a little bit about that reality.  

Sure. So, today’s topic is trauma. I think we just plan to talk about what it is, how it impacts the relationship, and things to think about when it comes to trauma. 

But when it comes to just this past and present, one of the things that we find in our relationships, and I find as a marriage counselor, is at times we can be talking and having a conversation in the present. And the way we respond, or how we respond, or even how we share can be influenced or impacted by previous interactions or the lack of interaction. 

So, our present interaction is influenced and impacted by however many multiple interactions you’ve had in the past. It’s shaped that way and the lens through which we see the present. As real as we believe that present is, is very much through a composite lens of many past experiences as well. 

It is. Yep. And I think just that in itself, Matt, is helpful for us because it requires, I think, at some level for me to accept that. A level of humility to accept I’m limited in my ability to see all things and to recognize that I have blind spots as a result of experiences and influences that those experiences had on me or our relationship or on my spouse. 

And so, yeah, so I think that you are correct. We’ve talked about trauma before on this podcast, and I’m going to want you to say a little bit and bring us back up to speed about what trauma is and how we’re handling it here today in this conversation. But before we get there, Kaleb, really central to this conversation is the past bearing relevance to the present in the context of marriage.  

So, all of us who are married perk up, right? We’re like, okay. All right, perhaps there could be some explanation for what I experience in the present that harkens back to my past and there are a few core things that do that today. We’re going to talk about trauma, but just briefly mention some of the other concepts we would like to address.  

Yeah, so there’s trauma. There’s just how we relate to emotions, how we individually relate to them and what emotions mean to us, the area of loss, how we’ve navigated loss in the past, how we’ve learned that from our own family is another area. Sexuality is another area I think that’s helpful Kaleb just to help our listeners get a little bit of a sense that we are going to narrow our focus and there is something to be said that this comes out of your counseling work where you have come to understand that’s like wow, these core things really play a huge part in a couple’s today even though it’s rooted in the things of the past. So just to review those things emotion, loss, sex, which that one will probably be released on the website and not through this normal venue just because of the sensitivity of that topic and how we want to address that. 

So, our listeners will be able to find that on the website where all of these others will be housed today, specifically trauma. Okay, so let’s get right into trauma then and really work out these details. Start with an address of, again, what trauma is. So, trauma can mean a number of different things. Often, we’ve used the term big T trauma and small T trauma. So big T trauma may be severe accident or rape or natural disasters. So being in the presence and losing someone that would be often considered a big T trauma, but there’s other traumas that are no less painful and no less difficult to deal with necessarily and that could be even things like bullying that happened in high school. Or it could be for example where there’s a couple relationship that’s strained and one gets a diagnosis of cancer, and they share it with their spouse that dismisses or is not present with them emotionally to really hear and soothe and support and comfort them to be seen in that. 

And so, these we would refer to as small T trauma and what we’re often looking for with trauma is a few different things. One is there is a sense of overwhelming fear or terror. Two, there’s a sense of helplessness that there’s nothing I can do to change it and then number three, aloneness is also feeling alone whether perceived or actual meaning. 

Matt, you and I are physically together, but emotionally that doesn’t mean we’re on the same page. And so there could be people around, but there is a perception, felt sense that I’m alone in this terror, fear, right? And a sense of helplessness that then can be experienced as a traumatic event. Just take each of those, you know, let’s take isolation or aloneness. 

You can imagine if an event has imprinted loneliness or aloneness on a brain in the past. Well, now that they are in a relationship, that’s going to probably be a pretty big voice. That’s going to be something to contend with now that you are in a covenant with your spouse. Yes, for sure. 

This is a relationship of mutuality, of being together, of oneness. And when I feel alone in this relationship, that’s deeply painful. The other thing to keep in mind, Matt, is just that trauma can happen both inside and outside of the relationship, and I think that matters. And why it matters is, if we experience the trauma as being perpetrated by a spouse, and it’s within the relationship, it’s much more substantial. 

As far as we think about the complexity of healing and how that takes place, compared with trauma that happened outside of the marriage relationship. So, I think that’s important to delineate at this point here that we’re not talking about trauma necessarily that happens in marriage. This trauma may have happened pre marriage. 

This is before your spouse was ever on the scene necessarily. So, we’re allowing in our thinking this trauma to have occurred anytime in the past and certainly outside of the marriage is very possible and likely. Yes. So, we think about the marriage union and the intimacy in marriage and the vulnerability. When we step into those spaces quickly, the times that vulnerability did not go well can come rushing to the surface or to the forefront. And so, with that, Matt, sometimes we’re caught off guard or surprised that we thought that relationship back here, whether it was a relationship with a girlfriend or boyfriend or just a friendship that somehow vulnerability was dismissed or there’s abuse, guess what? 

When we step into that space emotionally in the present, there’s part of our brain that remembers that for good reasons, right? Even though we want to be intimate and vulnerable and open in the present with someone that we feel is safe. I think you’ve really helped us see the importance of this topic. 

It provides a great deal of explanation for both spouses. For the one who was traumatized, this lens helps them give explanation for perhaps a reality that they wish was different. Right? Yeah. The example of vulnerability, if a spouse distances themselves from their spouse, why am I doing that? Well, that’s a good question, and it’s often perceived that you must want to do that. 

Yes. Maybe that person doesn’t want to do that, but it’s become how they operate, right? And so, this is a powerful lens in understanding self and also understanding your spouse. Yeah, I’ve got to believe that has got to be some of the ah ha you have in the counseling room. It is, absolutely. 

Because then it leads to a sense of compassion and empathy rather than a behavior that on the surface is perceived as distancing because of whatever fill in the blank. Fill in the story. When my desire is to have you close or to be close, to be aware of that. I don’t need to personalize that in the sense that I’m somehow causing it. I may be influencing it. There are things that certainly I’m doing that impact it. If I’m the spouse of someone who’s been traumatized in the past, for example, but it gives me compassion for a response that I may attribute to rejection or something I’m doing wrong, or they don’t trust me or whatever that is. 

Yeah. Right. So, it provides an explanation. Now I’m speaking from the perspective of the spouse of the individual who has endured the trauma from the perspective of the spouse. This provides a measure of explanation for certain behavior. Then it also, as you said, launches an opportunity to learn how to best interact with my spouse given the reality. Yes. Am I hearing that right? Yes. So, it does these two wonderful things, gives you an explanation, but also gives you a little bit of, okay, moving forward, right? I think having this framework and understanding is helpful because oftentimes what we find in this space of trauma that has happened in the past is that the reactions in the present seem out of proportion to what you might expect. 

And so, it’s easy to perceive being the spouse of someone who has experienced trauma as you’re just overreacting. You just need to control your emotions better. You just misunderstood me. So, the perception again in the present is this complete overreaction. We have to remember, however, with trauma, no one desires to react or respond that way. 

Their system, their emotional system is charged. You know, when you say overreaction, that’s true in the sense of the present reality, but it’s not necessarily true in all that person is reacting to. Right. Which is exactly what we’re talking about here. Yeah. And elevating it. You’ve given us two, I think, important litmus tests or perhaps examples of like, oh, if there is this distance and difficulty to connect might find its roots in some trauma, this concept of overreaction, I would be glad to learn others. 

I think our listeners would be as well. What are other ear markers that you as a counselor would say, let’s look into this and let’s see if there’s not an explanation that lies in the past. Another ear marker can be that our conflict seems to escalate or get out of control fairly quickly. So, there is a sense that when conflict happens, that again, the emotion that can come out can be disproportionate or it doesn’t even have to come out externally. 

It can be locking up, right? It can be shutting down. And so that is certainly an earmark of the level of trust. We talked about distance and avoidance of intimacy is something that can come up and also the reception of receiving love. One of the things that happens with trauma is for individuals that they may not perceive themselves as lovable. 

And so even for a spouse who perceives that their spouse is lovely and wonderful and beautiful, but it’s difficult to receive that because one of the things that trauma robs or affects is the view of self and trust, trust of self, trust of others, and then view. So, there’s a sense of shame. You know what, Kaleb, and I already made this point, but it’s just even being more solidified. It’s when the present moments are not adding up. They just simply don’t add up. They’re not rational in the sense they should be rational. Logical explanations don’t seem to go anywhere. Now why is that? Now we can say our spouse just doesn’t get it, or they’re not logical, or they’re not smart, but they’ve got factors C, D, E, and F in that logical equation that we don’t know about. 

Yes. And that perhaps they don’t know about. Exactly. Which is enough, you think about that, to just be really hard and painful when I don’t know about it, but it is coming from somewhere. That then affects my trust in myself, my ability to control myself, my ability to make sense of my experience. 

Yeah. Okay. So, some of us recognize these things, right? What kind of work is done then to remedy the situation? Absolutely. Understanding and awareness can go a long way, even when some of these ear markers come up or show up in the marriage relationship, being able to be curious as to why is it that this individual who loves me so much would respond to me in this way, right? 

Surely, they’re not intentionally. And so, one of the things that’s helpful is just approaching from a level of curiosity and being aware of our own stories that we conclude. We talk here often about how we can fill in gaps with our own stories. So, understanding how our own story may shape the experience of our spouse as well as our own experience can be helpful and then bringing those stories out into the room, if you will, and being able to talk through them together. And so, when the overreaction happens, being curious about, you know, I noticed whenever we talk about this or we go to this place or you know what, something happens, something shifts. 

Have you noticed that? Let’s talk about that. You know, what’s that like for you? What happens to you in those moments? Do you notice that and so we’re starting to not assume that they’re doing that out of spite. Yes, but rather we’re trying to be non-conclusive in what we conclude, but rather just trying to understand what their experience is, what happens with that. 

So, I heard a couple of things from this. First at a high level, hopefully this knowledge helps people understand that, okay, I can give my spouse space and simply understand that there’s more to the story that I can’t see. And that he isn’t just nuts, but there’s more to it. And there’s some solace in that. 

I can push through an argument. I can push through a bad day knowing that it’s not just me, you know, or something. So, there’s that level now. And then this next level is okay. Let’s get our stories out and you’re starting now to engage the hard and not jumping to conclusions, but allowing your spouse to really unpack what would be some of the questions you might ask to understand your spouse’s story in this moment. 

Yeah. So, when there’s something in the past that is playing out in the present, there’s a trigger, there’s a cue, there’s something that sets it off. So, is it certain things I say? Is it certain ways I say things? Is it certain places we go? What is it? And when does that happen? So first, even that question and that exploration itself is not minimizing, but you’re actually validating, wow, this comes up sometimes present day. 

Right? It happens. Help me understand when it comes up. And we’re starting to explore and say, okay, then we can go deeper. Okay, so it comes up when I don’t respond to you. And you’ve shared something with me, right? So now we go a little bit deeper. So, what’s that like for you? When I don’t respond, what happens to you? 

Some of this, even as I’m sharing this with you now, Matt, requires a level of vulnerability for the one that’s asking, because if I’m asking this question, I need to receive the answer, knowing that it could be an answer that feels a bit close to offensive. Yes. But again, if you keep the mindset that says that’s not the whole story. 

Yes. This happens when I don’t call, and I get home late or I’m ambiguous about my plans. Yes. Okay, this happens. Yes. And there’s probably some reason for it. Then you would be listening for how I contribute to this reaction. Right. Yes. And I just want to point out, we haven’t uncovered the trauma, necessarily. 

Exactly. And I think with that, one of the things that’s both hard and helpful is knowing that when trauma happens, it blocks vulnerability. So, when we want more intimacy and vulnerability in our marriage relationship, guess what shows up? It’s not the block to it, which is what’s painful on one hand, but it’s also helpful to know why this block is here or barrier here or what is it about. Maybe it’s clearly the way I’m communicating in the present. So, we don’t want to overthink that, oh, my spouse is reacting and so there must be something in the past. Help me. No, that’s not helpful. Yeah. But rather knowing that if there is a block that I want a deeper relationship, and when I step into this place, or we get to this place, you know what? I can’t go there. Or I’m too scared, or I just freeze up. And again, what we’re looking for is just to understand, what are those barriers? What are those blocks? 

And how do they show up? And when they show up, does anything come up in the past when you felt this way? Have you felt this way in other relationships or other interactions, or have you had this experience before? If you notice that now, when you have it, does anything come up for you? Because what we know is memories are stored with emotion and so if we bring the emotion out in the present at times it can tie back to those really painful experiences if there are those that influence intimacy in the present. 

So, I would imagine in your counseling room there are many times that you do find the large or lowercase T traumas and there’s probably a great deal of help that comes from that experience. Why don’t you give us a little bit of a lay of the land as it concerns finding the T trauma.  

In therapy, the first thing that we do is establish safety. We have to establish that safety first, before we move into vulnerability, to have conversations that are not easy, that are hard, that are continuing to go deeper, if you will, into experiences. And this in itself can be helpful within therapy to the marriage relationship. There are also wonderful, great resources out there related to trauma, the different types of traumas, how they impact individuals. 

And I believe reading about that, being aware of it, understanding it together, even as a couple, going through a book, not just one of the spouses. Would you have recommendation? Yeah. So, when it comes to trauma, one of the gold standards within the industry is called The Body Keeps the Score. 

Now that would be more for big T that would be a good kind of resource. But I would also say there are a number of podcasts, webinars, even on our website that provide some helps and tools without diving really deep into the topic. Because again, there are circumstances that it does require going deep. And that’s where we would also say the next step is professional counseling, whether it’s individually or as a couple, stepping into the counseling process to be able to identify ways that lead to increased vulnerability and connection. And just understanding for how this trauma or this past injury has impacted and is impacting the present relationship. Thank you, Kaleb. Thank you. Bringing a voice to a reality that many couples experience, and that is the reality of past trauma in present living. 

And I would like to believe and hope and pray that some light bulbs have gone on for some couples, that some connections have been made for some listeners to say, I think that’s what we experience. And I think, Kaleb, it provides hopeful perspective and understanding. Thank you for that. And for each one who has been here and listened, we trust and pray this has been a blessing for you. 

Have a great day.