3 Small Things for Improving Your Marriage Podcast Episodes

When you see a happy couple, what sets them apart? This isn’t like rocket science, but there are small things done often that can make a difference. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m glad to have Kaleb Beyer with me here today. 

Welcome, Kaleb. Thanks. It’s good to be here, Matt. Kaleb, I’m calling this Three Small Things. Okay. I learned, probably not soon enough in my marriage, but I did learn that when you find a small thing that makes a difference, then you’re a fool for letting it go by. 

Whenever there is a small thing that makes a positive difference, you use it. And that’s really a beautiful thing, that there are some things that really make great gains and they’re not far reaching. And so, you’re going to supply us three small things to that end. Am I right? Yeah. I think it’s the whole concept of the 80/20 rule, right? 

It is 20 percent that gives you 80 percent of the results. And so, in our marriages, what are things that we can prioritize or focus on that have really positive outcomes in developing healthy, close, and intimate relationships? And I think that’s exciting. And I just know this is going to be well received because we have an audience who have vested interest in their marriages. 

Yeah. And that’s exciting. Isn’t that exciting? Oh, it’s exciting. These pieces have been adapted from research by Shaunti Feldhan. So, some may be familiar. She’s a Christian, has done research, and she has a book, that she wrote, The Surprising Secrets of Highly Happy Marriages. And it’s interesting, often when research happens, they figure out what goes wrong with marriages. 

Right? Why do marriages fall apart? What are the items that lead to disillusion or even just ho hum marriage? Yeah. But she flipped that and looked at why do marriages turn good? Like, what is common among good marriages? Yes. Or happy couples. Yeah. When you see a happy couple, what sets them apart from other marriages. 

And as we go through these things, this isn’t rocket science, but they’re small things done often that can make a difference. Yeah. Awesome. Right. Number one. So, highly happy couples tend to put God at the center of their marriage. They focus on him and not their spouse for fulfillment. 

There is a sense where that spouse becomes all too important. Could I say it that way? Yeah. If you were to ask me, is God at the center of your marriage? Yeah. I made a covenant and commitment on our wedding day that I will remain true and faithful. Am I living that? Yes. Yeah. What does that mean and am I living that out day to day? God is the center of my marriage. Because as soon as he is removed, then I start relying on Ange to make me happy, to fulfill me, right, in ways that she wasn’t intended to. And our spouses are not supposed to be our God. Right. Absolutely. They’re supposed to be companionship and intimacy and challenge and speak the gospel. 

But there’s a book out there called Sacred Marriage written by Gary Thomas. And the subtitle is that God designed marriage to make us holy more than happy. So, some of the things that happen in marriage relationships really are a sanctifying work that God is doing through my spouse, but it isn’t about comfort.  

All right, so you just mentioned comfort. What are some of the ways that we do elevate our spouses and ask them to do more than what they should be doing or expect more out of them than what we should be expecting? Or in what ways do we want them to be the savior instead of Jesus? Does that make sense? What are some of those examples? 

Yeah. Ways that we start depending on them to fulfill all our needs rather than Christ alone. So, fulfilling needs would be one of those markers, right? I need to be fulfilled in some sort of way and my spouse needs to do that filling. Yeah. And I think also one of the things that occurs to me is certainly part of the relationship is having needs fulfilled, like companionship, but when there are two humans in the relationship, we know that it’s never going to be perfect. 

So, having the expectation that is constant or that there’s an expectation of perfection in that which only God can provide that consistently, then I think we’re expecting too much out of our spouse. I think the other piece is when we start relying on our spouse to fill up ourselves and who we are outside of Christ to being complete in Christ, then I think that’s another red flag that this particular one is not being observed. And really, there’s a great deal of release when our Savior is Jesus and not another person. Yes. It allows that other person to not be perfect. Yes. It allows that other person that we are not maybe unhealthily dependent on them in certain ways. 

Is that true? We can be unhealthily dependent upon our spouse. Is that a true statement? It is true. Someone is too unhealthily dependent on another. When one falls, the other one falls down versus when our stability and our sense of security comes in Christ. Certainly, it’s influenced by our spouse. It needs to be influenced. But when our spouse is going through a struggle or there are times they just can’t be available because they’re human. That we find that security in Christ and who we are in him. And we stand in him together. Yes. Absolutely. This is not belittling intimacy with our spouse of any sort. It’s just saying that the center is Christ. Yeah. I would have to believe that this allows us to weather storms through difficult seasons when we are particularly not being a savior to our spouse. Yes. Does that make sense? Yes, absolutely. That we can rest in him being that Savior when we’re like no, the reality of life brings to the forefront that we are not that. We weren’t intended to be that savior. And so, we can rest in Jesus being that Savior for our spouse.  

I think that’s really refreshing, to be thinking about taking that pressure off of my spouse, taking the expectation off that he or she doesn’t have to measure up in all of these different ways. Yeah. Because Christ is measured up in all of the ways that are necessary. Yes. Is that right? Yeah. And that we aren’t. Sometimes these terms get thrown around like my spouse completes me. Right? Like, there is something that you are lacking in Christ, which is not true. That we are both, we are one, but you are complete is also true, that you are complete in Christ. 

Right. Okay. That’s good. Number one. So that’s three small things. First small thing is Christ centered. Yeah. Second small thing. Highly happy couples choose gratefulness for how their spouse realistically meets their needs instead of longing for something which is difficult or impossible for their spouse to meet. 

So, I hear gratefulness. That seems to be an important verb of the whole thing. Yes, very much so, and really where we orient ourselves towards. Okay. So, I don’t know if you’ve ever in your life been around an individual who was really difficult to please. What happens?  

When you’re in a relationship with someone who’s difficult to please it’s difficult and frustrating. And you never meet the expectation. So, it comes to a point like, why try? Yeah. And it’s really difficult. And compare that to someone who is grateful, who communicates that gratitude, who you recognize experiences that appreciation for things that you’re doing. This is a posture that we are orienting and focusing on ways that they are already meeting. So oftentimes what we do, we can do, is we can have unrealistic expectations for what marriage is about, for what to expect in marriage. We often talk with premarital couples about this, because what do you expect? 

And when we put an unrealistic burden, or expectation on marriage, or back to the other point we talked about, on your spouse to meet, then we can run the tape player of how they’re not in love, not meeting those expectations. And we focus on the gap, the lack, between our expectation and reality. Right. And that gap is the one that sets the tone for all interaction. Yeah. So, it’s a negative tone. And you’re suggesting that we look somewhere altogether different. Yes. And are thankful. Yes. Look at where, wow, I am blessed by this. Like if it wasn’t for my spouse in my life, this would not happen. 

My spouse has been used by God in this way. And so, what you’re doing is saying, how have I been blessed and how do I orient myself towards that and focus on that and be grateful for that? It’s a different kind of orientation. It’s an orientation, a different direction that we’re facing. Yes. And it affects how we feel towards our spouse. 

If you think about it, and towards our marriage relationship, which in turn affects how we behave and interact with our spouse. So, is it as simple as an exercise where we brainstorm things, ways that our spouses have blessed us? Yeah. And I think writing them down can be helpful, I don’t think too lofty. No, those can be very simple and basic. Anything from the fact that I’m cooking a meal or taking care of logistics. Oh, yeah. Or the way they interact with kids or just the personality or gifts that God has given. That you’ve been blessed by those. 

So, they don’t have to be big things. But I think the exercise of a gratitude list of some level internally affects my mental direction orientation, but the other thing is expressing it. We may know it up here and we may think, oh, my spouse knows it, but it’s a whole other thing when I verbalize that. So, it’s important to verbalize this also. 

Yes. Right. So, there’s an effect on me personally. But then to verbalize it, there’s another effect there, not only on me, but also on my spouse, I would imagine. Absolutely. To hear that appreciation. To warm the waters of the marriage, right? In the sense that I am appreciated. Yeah. Because I think with the lack of that, what it leads to is a message that you’re never enough. 

Like if I’m telling my spouse how they’re not measuring up and yet there’s no communication about how they have blessed me, how I appreciate them, how I’m thankful for what they’ve done or who they are, that gap then leads to just a negative environment in the relationship. Okay. 

So, the first two simple things, one, having God as center and two, being grateful towards our spouse and have a climate of gratefulness. The third small thing. When highly happy couples experience hurt, they extend grace and assume their mate’s intentions were pure and have a reasonable explanation. This really speaks again to that second concept where we’re really rewriting some scripts in our head, that are saying, oh, I know why she did that. I know exactly why she did that. Yeah. And really making a meal of it in our heads, right? Telling ourselves stories. And this is really saying you need to rewrite the script that plays in your head. Yes. About why things are happening. Yeah. Why they did what they did or say what they said. 

Yeah. Human nature would, it’s called the fundamental error of attribution, right? It’s kind of that whole idea that for some reason, when I’m in a hurry, the place that I’m late for something, I can excuse cutting in front of someone in line, on the interstate, or whatever. But when someone does that to me, they are rude. 

They were rude. Right. That’s right. So, human nature’s tendency is we have a reason, but they do not. And I make excuses. So, that same kind of concept goes into our marriage relationship. And so, what this is saying is challenge that momentum in our human nature to go down that path and extend grace and rest in, you know what, they’re really trying the best that they know how, right? It’s not like they woke up this morning and I can’t wait to hurt my husband or my wife. That’s not something spouses want to do or desire to do. So, this is really challenging that momentum, but I think it’s hard when we’re in a place of hurt. 

That’s where stories thrive, right? That’s where it’s easy to come up with stories because it’s coming out of a place of hurt or feeling rejected or just pain or loss. And so, I think it’s easy to do that. The other thing that I would say about this point is it doesn’t say highly happy couples don’t experience hurt. The reality is all relationships will. Yeah, we will. And so, it’s a matter of what do we do with that hurt?  

So, I really hear all three of these simple things have a lot to do with orientation, have a lot to do with the direction that we’re facing. Yeah. And the scripts that we are running in our head, the stories we are telling ourselves, how we are processing our world with our spouse. 

So, the first one that Christ is the center, and, in this sense, we remove our spouses from being that God. Yes. And the second one, where we are being grateful towards our spouse, now we are turning towards our spouse and we’re looking at the value and the service and taking careful inventory and being thankful for it. 

Yeah. Which really moves quickly into the third one where we have a positive narrative running in our head about the interactions that we’re having with our spouse, giving grace for the negative things that come along saying, well, I’m sure she was in a hurry or I’m sure he wasn’t really thinking about that. 

Yes. And all of this does what for the marriage? All of this cultivates a marriage where there is closeness, there is a sense of openness, but I would also say a sense of joy and gratitude and a deepening of the relationship. You know what I think, it helps too, Kaleb, it builds an environment where brokenness can be present. 

Does that make sense? Yeah. We’re building a marriage where brokenness can be present. Yeah. Because she is not my God and I am going to be thankful and I am going to assume goodness, right? Yes. And don’t we want an environment where brokenness can be present because that’s a reality?  

Yeah, it is setting realistic expectations for the marriage relationship, certainly. And coming at it from a place where you’re grounded in reality versus living out of a marriage, a false reality, that brokenness can’t be present. Right. Kaleb, what do we need to remember here? Yeah, so like with any learning of a new thing or incorporating something new in a relationship, it’s a process that takes time and little by little. We don’t get there overnight. We don’t see results. And so certainly these require some retraining. Yeah, I can understand that it would be a process and over time this happens. Right. Like if we do it for seven days, we can’t expect to see results, but just engaging in it for a longer period of time and being consistent in that and letting go of the results and just focusing on engaging in the process can be really helpful. 

I love it. I love the simplicity of it. And I think this is incredibly helpful, Kaleb, thank you for sharing this. I trust that you have more small things up your sleeve to share in future podcasts. Absolutely. Look forward to being with you and sharing. Thanks, friends, for being here. Thanks for listening in. 

We trust that the points that have been made here today are helpful to you and you can see them applied in your own situations. Thanks for being here. Goodbye. 

We can’t expect to build and cultivate a happy, healthy relationship if we’re not spending time together. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I am Matt Kaufman. I’ve got Kaleb Beyer back in the studio today. Kaleb, welcome. 

Thanks. Good to be with you, Matt. A number of months ago, Kaleb, you unpacked three small things. And those aren’t the only three things for marriages, so I’m excited to hear a few more here today. I’m looking forward to it. So, we’re going to tackle three more small things. The idea here, the vision is great marriages aren’t won in the big ways. 

Yeah. They are won in the small ways. Is that right? Absolutely. Is that good news? Yeah, I think it is. There’s a lot of hope in how the small moments in our lives can really build up. It’s not the getaways, the date nights, all those things are needed, but the reality is just like in our relationship with Christ. 

It’s in the quiet moments. It’s sometimes in the seemingly meaningless things that are opportunities for connection. Number one. All right. So, we have three themes as we’ve done in the past. Be purposeful, be present, be positive. So, we think about being purposeful. Highly happy couples practice meaningful touches throughout the day, boosting relational and individual health. 

There’s been a lot of research done on the impact that just physically touching someone for a number of seconds can have on our emotional health, releasing positive hormones. One of them is called the cuddle hormone, oxytocin. Okay. And so, and if you think about it, from the cradle. What do we do with our kids when they’re in distress? 

We squeeze them. Right. We hold them. And so the same is true in our married relationships. When we’re in distress, sometimes the most powerful thing we can do is not say anything but embrace or touch. So meaningful, safe touch can be really powerful. And again, you know, it doesn’t require a lot of time or what’s being communicated there. 

What’s happening in those moments? As I think about that, I think it’s a very powerful message, even as you see in the Gospels. Think about this. How many times there was an outcast, a blind person, along the side of the road, or this woman was an adulterous woman, or over and over again, Christ moves into their world and touches them. 

I think of the leper. Yes. I think of the woman with the issue of blood. Yes. These outcasts, right? That even the law says are unclean, don’t touch, right? Yes. And Jesus embraced them in an amazing way. So when we embrace our spouse, that’s kind of what I’m thinking, right? An embrace would constitute as this or holding hands. Absolutely. Any type of physical, non sexual touch. So it can be hand holding, it can be back rubs, it can be a hug. One of the things I’ve come to appreciate the most is at the end of a hard day to come home and for 20 seconds, 30 seconds just to embrace. And I think it’s a small thing. 20 seconds isn’t a lot of time. On the other side, 20 seconds is a lot of time. It’s intentional, you know, your kids are going to be like wow. Or it’s not like this touch and go touch. It’s not a touch and go. And there is something to that, that it’s not touch and go, right? 

Yeah, I think it takes mindfulness to quiet our minds to be present in the here and the now, because I can pat somebody on the back and then go my way. But to sit in that moment, which 20 seconds feels like sometimes eternity, right? I mean like you’re saying. Yeah. But it can be a time of worship, it can be a time of praise, but it is a quietness to be present, to feel her warmth, to feel her embrace. 

And that’s what I think is powerful. There’s something about the message or what’s being said in those moments. I think one thing that’s being said in those moments is security. Yes. Does that make sense? In my mind, I find myself retreating there when I need security or when I want to communicate security. 

You know what, Matt? It’s like the world stops in that moment and whatever stuff happened from the day or tomorrow or wherever. I think in that moment it stops. Yeah. And there’s security. There’s safety there in the presence of each other that we’re with and just being, we don’t need to do anything. 

Yeah. So, you mentioned oxytocin, say a bit more about that. What is that? And what’s it do? It is a hormone that’s released in our brain through meaningful and safe touch. And so what they found is it’s actually important in the process of building trust in relationships. So, bonding. Yes, it’s a bonding hormone. 

And so, God has designed our bodies and our systems, that is part of the process of building trust that this person cares about me, knows me, they are interested in my world. And that all happens through the power and the engagement of touch. Okay. So, as you mentioned, even with a child, you bond with that child often through touch. 

Yes, we do. And even as kids grow older, you know, I have four kids and the ones that are still under 10, they crave for that touch. So it’s not like just as infants, they need that. But the interesting thing too, is God has created this, that it’s universal, any race, any culture, touch conveys a message. 

Well, let’s move to the second thing. Number two. Highly happy couples aren’t just spending time together because they are happy. A big part of the reason they’re so happy is that they’re spending time together. Okay. So this is a time element. Yes. And it’s a time element that I don’t know if this happens for you, Matt, but sometimes when we plan or we think ahead, we kind of approach it from, you know, when things are right, I’ll do this down the road sort of thing and sometimes in relationships we can wait until the ideal or the happy or the whatever that is, but I think this principle says no, we engage that behavior and emotions follow. Yeah. Not always.  

So, there’s a causal effect in the way that you stated that, right? That we don’t spend time because we enjoy it. Yes. We enjoy them because we’re spending time. Right. There’s a great deal of optimism there. Okay. When we make that switch of understanding that says that, oh, I can get out in front of this thing with my spouse. 

And if I invest time, it’s very likely that likeness and enjoyment will bloom out of that. Yes, that’s true. There is certainly a caveat to that, Matt. So I think it’s true to the point. I think now if we’re spending time together and our inner world is negative. During the time that we’re spending together, we can keep spending time together and actually can go downhill. 

So we could talk about quality time spent or poorly time spent, really, and that’s the differentiation you’re making here. Yeah. Okay. So let’s do that. Okay. Yeah. So what does it look like to have good redeeming time together? So, one of the things is, and I think part of this principle here is that we check a little bit of our expectations at the door. 

Okay. So, if we expect every date night or every opportunity we have to spend together to be this wonderful connecting and laughing time. And if it’s not, we tend to not do it then. That’s not helpful for spending time together. So the first thing is just expectations. Sometimes we’re together at the end of the day, both of us are exhausted and we’re not engaging in great dialogue, but just appreciate and accept being together. 

Yeah. It doesn’t have to be wonderful grand. Could that be just being in the same room together on the same couch together? Maybe you’re reading your different things, but yeah. And just being able to pause. And, but what it’s not doing is we’re together. And then I’m thinking about me. And if only we were like this couple over here, if only we could spend some time together tonight. 

It’s not wishing for something that isn’t, but being able to accept what is in this moment and continue to move towards that. And so, that’s the first piece. I think the second piece is what we would say is part of what builds relationships, Matt is shared experiences. So that’s the way in our spiritual life. It’s the way in our families. It’s a way in our couple life. What that means is we can’t expect to build and cultivate a happy, healthy relationship if we’re not spending time together. So, there is this sense that rituals are special ways of connecting to the two of you, you do them, you engage them, even when sometimes it takes energy and effort. 

Yeah. Right. What’s a ritual. What do you mean by that? Yeah. Rituals can be as simple as what we do when we leave for the day. So maybe we offer a prayer together. May we embrace hug and kiss. Maybe we ask our spouse one thing that they’re looking forward to today. One thing that they’re really apprehensive about so that we can pray about. 

So small, simple things can be rituals. Rituals also can be remembering our anniversaries, remembering our vows. So, they could be more significant, but what rituals are is a way of connecting me and my spouse, that this is what we do together. These are things that bind us. It’s even special things like pizza and Coke on a certain night, you just sit down and there’s nothing great about it, but you do this. 

And even thinking about having pizza reminds you of being with your spouse, because you do it over and over and over, so those create memories and connections that are present, even when you’re not physically present. Yeah. And they create a we. Yes. Yeah. To say that this is what we do. 

Yeah. And when I think of that ritual, well, that’s between her and me. Yes. Because that’s what we do. Yeah. And it’s almost like the greater goal is the we, as opposed to maybe, as you mentioned, the expectation out of the moment of being with. But there’s something powerful I think that you mentioned there about shared memories and shared meaning. 

Right. Certainly. I think there’s something really powerful there. If you look at our individual lives, it really is just stacked on top of each other, memories and experiences. Yes. And that’s what makes the relationship, Matt, is the chronological stacking of moments and memories and experiences. 

Yes. Right. Yeah. So, when we put the time together with our spouse, now all of a sudden these come together and part of what makes me has made her. Yes. That’s a thing. Yeah. It’s kind of like pulling out the photo album or the family videos and just reminiscing together. Remember when, you know, oh, we thought we’d never get through this or wasn’t this an amazing time. 

And so not only intertwined, but you also celebrate that presently. You know, on and on. So, our past we celebrate in the present. It becomes fuel if you think about it. It does. For driving our connection to the present, which is a really powerful thing. It is. And not all of those memories are glowing. 

No. Those hard things. Yeah. And even disagreements. I mean, they’ve made me who I am, and it’s made her who she is and it’s shared together between us, making us who we are. Yes. And that’s important. It’s a beautiful thing. Okay. Thank you. Third small thing, highly happy couples quickly stopped a negative train of thought or action by replacing unhappy or angry thoughts or actions with positive ones to combat negativity. 

So there’s a lot there to tease out, but it sounds to me at a glance that this is a real mental exercise. Is that true? It is. And this is something done individually in the quietness of my own thoughts towards my spouse, right? As I think about my spouse, what sort of thoughts come to mind? Are they positive thoughts? Are they negative thoughts? And when we notice that our inner self talk about our spouse begins to be filled primarily with negative and not positive, they’re just lazy, or that they don’t care, or those sorts of things. She’s thinking that about me, and that’s why she said this, and we’re kind of filling in this story that we really don’t know. 

Right. And your point is that a positive or a negative story? Yes. And what happens is with those thoughts, at times they can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. Okay. So what that means is if I have this negative train of thought, so it’s not just one thought, it’s a series of thoughts. We can churn on that to the point that we know that our thinking, as a man thinks so is he, it affects our emotions. 

It affects our state. Yes. And so then I start to feel negative. And then it’s like, well, yeah, that is true. And I start to see through that lens and looky there, they do that. And all of a sudden I see all these things. Let’s use an example of maybe there’s a frustrating characteristic that your spouse has. 

I think one of the helpful things is being aware of when that negative train of thought is moving ahead, stopping it before it gets full steam. And then looking at the other side, the reality is for all characteristics that drive us nuts, there’s also a reality that, you know what? Actually, I’m really thankful about that. 

Like, you know, my spouse is present in the moment and sometimes they drop things, and they don’t get things accomplished, but you know what, I’ve been blessed by their ability to be present. And so what we do is open up. A balanced perspective. It’s not that that’s not frustrating, right? Right. But it’s more of a balanced perspective than all negative. 

Yeah. You know, something I think that ties a lot, all three of these together is taking the initiative. I think sometimes we want to wait, right? If she reaches for me, I’ll reach for her. Yes. If she acts interested in my time, then I’ll actually be interested in her time. Right. I’ll rewrite stories in my head. 

And we wait, right? Whether it’s the silent treatment, well, I’m waiting on her and this is vice versa, right? Yeah. And what do we see in the love of God towards us? We see initiative. Yeah. We see the first act being done. God reaching out towards, to touch, to be with, and to continue that, right? 

What a model we have in the gospel. Suppose that we spouses both modeled God’s act of love that initiates these things, right? They would happen. Yes. And I think it’d be very powerful and blessing, not just for our spouse, but for ourselves. It draws us closer to the heart of God and his heart for us in the end, which is a very challenging, but beautiful thing. 

Well, there’s something that you cast in that comment, Kaleb, that I think is very key. Yes. When we initiate all of these things, these three small things and others, when we initiate them, we are basically saying. I don’t need my circumstances to align in order for me to engage, right? In fact, I engage and let my circumstances align behind them. 

Does that make sense? That is a hugely powerful thing to do. Yes. It’s very redemptive. It’s very freeing. All right. I agree. Terrific. Thank you. These three small things, touch, time together, and positive thoughts towards the other. Okay. I think all of us can see that and we know what that looks like here today. 

So thank you for that. And thanks each one for being along. We trust and pray that this has been a blessing to you and will bear fruit in your marriage. Thanks for being here. 

There’s a knowing, a deep knowing of how my words, how my actions, how my life impacts my spouse and being considerate of that when I engage life. Welcome back everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m back in the studio with Kaleb with Three Small Things for Marriages. 

Welcome, Kaleb. It’s good to be here, Matt. Thanks. These, I think, have been very, very helpful. They’ve been very local, very simple not grandiose but yet not necessarily easy. No, right. What’s the first small thing? First small thing, Matt, here is the highly happy couples find that when they can’t resolve conflict before bedtime, they choose to sleep on it. 

If anger remains in the morning, they don’t let it go unresolved. They deal with it. Okay, so this one’s got interesting. This is talking about being purposeful and dealing with conflict and disagreement. And sounds to me like it means that you understand the tension of letting things go and then not letting them go too far. 

Yes. Well stated. Do tell, Kaleb, just exactly what that algorithm is. Well, and even, you know, this reality that sometimes the best way of dealing with conflict can be sleeping on it and getting up in the morning. Which one might say, well, don’t let the sun go down upon your anger, right? So maybe unpack a little bit of that larger concept. 

Yeah. So, what does that exactly mean? Don’t let the sun go down upon your wrath? If you think about that, Matt, again, does that mean when it’s dark out? There’s a principle there. But when it becomes an absolute in the sense that we have to work this conflict out, when both of us are emotionally exhausted, physically fatigued, and we’re talking about a hot topic, and I’ve got half a brain and you’ve got half a brain. 

That’s right. It’s not functioning and that’s not helpful. Really then emotion begins to drive the show and we’re just not cognitively able to be able to walk through that in a way that honors each other. And so, when we move to that environment, we’re saying yes, it’s helpful to resolve conflict. 

It’s helpful to walk through that as soon as we can. And at times, when it goes on past our bedtime, maybe the best thing we can do is get a good night’s rest, get up in the morning and say, you know what? Let’s walk through this now, after we’ve rested. And if we were to take this up another 10,000 feet and just take the principles, it’s not only about bedtime and getting good rest. 

Right. But it’s knowing when to talk about things. Yes. Is that fair to say? Yeah, I think you’re absolutely right. It does take some self-awareness of what are the environmental factors and barriers that are going to impact our engaging and walking through conflict in a negative way. In that case, we’re not just moving with urgency, we have to deal with this now. 

Right. That’s not the only message we want to listen to or hear, but to be able to take a deep breath, step back and to think about this for a second. Is this going to lead to healthy dialogue? Because in the end, that’s what we want. We want healthy dialogue. I mean, certainly we want it dealt with. But we want to be understood. 

And when we’re already revved up, we’ve got to get this talked about and resolved before we get to that potluck or place. We’re not in a good state of mind to be present and patiently attentive and in tune with our spouse’s feelings.  

So that does take some self-awareness to say, okay, what’s going to put our best foot forward as we think about resolving conflict. Not many people are thinking, wow, I just can’t wait to walk through conflict with my spouse. There are some that don’t mind, but at the same time, what we’re saying is how do we create an environment where it’s conducive to understanding, being in tune with each other to walk through negative emotions. Because we need to do this, we’re not saying to avoid the conflict. Conflict does need to happen, but very often we have between spouses a different skillset when it comes to dealing with conflict. To one, the words flow and the thoughts and the rationale and they want to dialogue right now and the other one needs time to process, right? 

And it puts them on the losing end of every argument, right? That’s not a good feeling. It’s not a good feeling, right? Yeah. Their skill set is different. So, it’s almost like having a very comprehensive view of conflict. Is that fair enough? Yeah. Is that kind of what we’re saying? Broader. Absolutely. A broader view and not in this moment getting caught seeing the forest for the trees sort of thing. Yeah. Almost knowing that in this moment I’ve got too much of an upper hand with this conflict. Yeah. And while it might feel good in the moment, it may win a battle, so to speak, but it loses the war. 

Right? Relationally. So, one other thing that I would say on this is, again, we’re saying here, sometimes it’s helpful to sleep on it. Having said that, it is a helpful thing, particularly for females, not always, sometimes this is for males as well. But let’s say Angie and I are in conflict. 

Okay. And it’s late at night. We’re both exhausted. And I’m thinking like, let’s just table it. Okay. If I just turn over and say, I’m going to table it without letting her know we’re going to get through this, that we’re okay. This temporary conflict. It’s frustrating. I wish we could change it. You know, I want to resolve it, letting her know that I love her and I’m going to come back to that, that we’re going to get settled. There’s a settledness in that. I think that message communicates, I love you. We’re okay. I need some time, or it would be helpful for me to sleep on it. Otherwise, you leave your spouse churning on what’s going to happen. What did you mean by turning over like that? 

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Left to their own. What would you say to the spouse who says, hey, listen, if we put this off to the morning. I’m just not going to even see him again, right? I mean, the way our connection is right now, it’s now or never. So, I would want to unpack that a little bit, Matt, to understand past experiences of walking through conflict. 

So, meaning, is that just the nature of their schedule, is it a nature of the way that they approach conflict? And so, the urgency of one of the spouses in this case, perhaps the wife is like, if we don’t talk about it now, it doesn’t get talked about. Okay. And what is fueling in her that intensity, that desire to do it now, likely oftentimes this has happened a zillion times in the past. 

We haven’t talked about it. And so, once and for all I’m putting my foot down and we’re going to do it right now and from that context it makes a lot of sense. And so, I would say, first, I would want to unpack with that couple, what is feeding that dynamic, to understand both, in that case, what does it look like for the wife, for the honor, the husband’s need for some time of quiet to digest, but also for the husband to connect back. 

Is that painful? Yeah. Just to be left with, doesn’t care, doesn’t matter, you know, we don’t walk through this. So, does that make sense? Yeah. Again, the responsibility that you’re sharing here is for both spouses, right? And so, it’s for her to process that urgency and the fear that this is going to go like they’ve always gone. 

Yes. But you’re really amping up the responsibility for the other. spouse, right? To say, hey, listen, that’s the way it usually goes. And that’s not good either. Yeah. So, what’s the right answer? Right. What does responsibility look like to you? And to her. Yeah. So, I think in that, being able to communicate clearly, so for her, you know what, I’m really afraid that if we leave it till the morning, that we don’t talk about it, that she’s able to speak into her fear and say, you know what, this is where this intensity comes from. 

It’s from a deep fear. Yeah. I’m okay with waiting. Yeah. If I know we can talk about it tomorrow night and that we can prioritize that, are you able to do that? Right. And for him to be able to say, taking a deep breath, because obviously that’s intense in the moment, right? And there’s a lot of emotions going and say, okay, you know what? 

This isn’t about disengaging. I know, you know, take responses in the past, perhaps I haven’t come back to things I would like to, and it takes intentionality upon agreeing on a time. When is that going to be? And then guess what? We make it happen whether it’s tomorrow at 730 or the next day, because I think that’s what helps both spouses say, okay, we’re prioritizing. 

You know, when you’re sharing that Kaleb, the word that jumped out to me that all of a sudden generated empathy within me was fear. So, when you played that scenario out, you made it up, but I’m sure it strikes pretty near to a lot of experiences to say, honey, I’m afraid. Okay. The core of this is, I’m afraid that we’re going to go and not address this and we’re going to slip away here. 

Yeah. So, if it doesn’t happen tonight, I get it. Yeah. But I want you to know, I’m going to be fearful until we have the conversation. I think that really places a huge motivator on the husband or the wife, whichever direction it’s going, to say, all right, I owe that to you. 

Let’s go on to number two. Number two has something to do with being present. Sure. So, this one is highly happy couples treat one another with intentional kindness. They joke and they challenge, but they try to never do it in ways that their mate would perceive as disrespectful. Okay. So here we have, if you think about joking, being with, you know, treating each other, again, being present with each other, but there’s a point in time where that can cross the line. 

Yeah. Okay. One example I think of is just sarcasm. Okay, some couples joke with sarcasm, sarcastic jokes, and it connects them. It’s wonderful. And we have all different tolerance levels. That’s right. And for others, they feel that’s not helpful. They feel betrayed. Yeah. It can lead to deep pain. 

I think we need to realize as spouses the power that each of us has over our spouses. I don’t think there’s anybody in the world, Kaleb, who can humiliate me as much as my wife can. She has the words that she could just drop the atomic bomb on me. 

Totally. And I, her. Yes. I can’t do it to you, Kaleb. It is so true. You know, but I could, there are words that I could use that would be hugely destructive. Yeah. I mean, in fact, so traumatic, it would be a marker in her life. I’m just trying to paint the power that we spouses have for one another. 

Absolutely. Isn’t that true? It is. It makes me think at a recent training and the trainer mentioned, so this was in the context of marital therapy as a marital therapist, we have a flashlight, into the heart of each spouse, the spouses for each other. It’s like a stadium floodlight that they shine and the impact that they have on each other. 

And I just thought it was really powerful to that point of they can impact in very amazing ways, but also be very painful. So, we have to walk with awareness, right? And we’re aware of that. But when our spouse doesn’t feel safe, when the safety relationship is damaged then trust is damaged. And so, if I’m not considerate, let’s say Ange doesn’t appreciate sarcastic jokes and that’s partly the way I approach life. If I’m not considerate of her and aware of how that can be cutting to her, and I just say she just needs to get over it. 

You know, she’s too sensitive. That leads to rupturing safety and then has an adverse effect on trust that’s built over time in a relationship. And so, if that’s the case, then her mind goes to, well, what else? She doesn’t feel very cherished, right? She doesn’t feel cared for. 

Whereas if I were to say, you know what? If I don’t say another sarcastic comment for the rest of my life, so be it. I want to cherish her. I mean that really takes some learning here and some growth. There’s a knowing, a deep knowing of how my words, how my actions, how my life impacts my spouse, and being considerate of that when I engage life with her and her brother. There is an element in this one about joking and having a good time. Yeah. There’s something really powerful about it. Smiling and laughing together. Yeah. How does it say it? Laughter is as good as medicine. So, there is a sense of connection that comes with laughter that is contagious. 

Yeah. Right. You think about that joking and having fun. It just knits us together. When have you had a funny thing happen to you and you just can’t wait to tell somebody? Yeah. Because laughter and enjoyment, you want to do that in relationships. You know, actually I read an article, they were doing some studies on laughter and stuff. 

They found that women like to laugh more. So, there was evidence to the fact that make your woman laugh. That’s interesting. And they also found that men instigate laughter more than women do. Huh. Right? So, there’s your charge. Yeah. Make her laugh. Right? Which has incredible therapy, right? 

It does. And in marriage, we have enough to cry about. Oh, yes. Okay? Yes. There’s enough to cry about that maybe some laughter would do us well. Totally. I think so. Kaleb let’s go now to number three. Be positive. Number three, when highly happy couples inevitably experience hurt feelings and conflict, they eventually reconnect by mutually sharing a private signal that says, we’re okay. 

So, a couple things, Matt, I think with this one. First is, the reality that we inevitably experience hurt feelings. Yes, and conflict in a relationship. And that’s normal. That’s part of human relationships and interactions that happen. When there’s been a disconnect, a conflict, hurt feelings, guess what can happen? 

It can hang around in our head, right? And run around until we come back and reconnect and are able to have some sort of closure. Exactly. Yes. It allows us to be able to drop those feelings and have that reconnection. You know what I really like about this one, Kaleb? We can talk and prepare and teach and learn how not to put the car in the ditch. 

Yes. But equally important is learning the skill. And this is that one. But what I’m catching here is there are two things, connection is required to get the car out of the ditch as well as this symbol thing. So, I want you to go to this symbol thing. There is a sign or a symbol that a couple has. 

Am I hearing this right? Yeah, that says we’re okay, right? Yeah. What they found was in these highly happy couples, they share this ability to reconnect that says, you know what? We’re good. Things are okay. You know what? We’re all right here. We can kind of let that go. And sometimes it can be an actual facial expression or signal, but there’s an awareness. 

We’re all right. We’re in tune here. The important thing here is it doesn’t mean that we have a sit-down talk this out It’s like no, we’ve both dropped it. We’re good. Yeah, we’re not avoiding. That’s not avoidance Yeah, and maybe we’re not in agreement, right? It doesn’t mean agreement. No, not necessarily but it means we’re going to be okay. 

Yeah, I think so. What’s an example of a symbol? I think the important thing is as couples when we’re living together, we get to know each other. There is this sense that you start to share certain interactions, it’s just between the two of you another individual would have no clue, right? That, that’s what that means, right? 

That we’re okay. But you get this sense. Maybe it could be a side hug squeeze or even a hand gesture or something, right? Yeah. That would indicate, I remember, and I know and I’m confident. And we’re going to get through this. That we’re going to be okay. Yeah. That’s inspiring. And I see you. Yeah. 

Thanks, Kaleb. Three small things. Two of which had to do with conflict. One is sometimes sleeping on conflict is a good idea to clear our minds. But the other one is that closure, not necessary closure so much, but connection saying, we’re going to be okay with the conflict. And then this middle one that we talked about in terms of knowing when and how to joke. 

Okay. Yeah. Finding that appropriate place that honors your spouse. Yeah. This knowledge, knowing that it is so incredibly good. And lots of us husbands right now can remember that ride home. When we learned that lesson, or maybe we didn’t learn that lesson, but anyway, thanks a lot for being here. 

Thanks everyone for being along and listening in. We trust that this has been helpful. 

A deeper, more secure connection in the marriage relationship flows out of vulnerability, risking vulnerability, and stepping into it. Hello, friends. Welcome to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. Kaleb Beyer is back with me for Three Small Things. 

It’s good to be with you, Matt. This is our fourth part of Three Small Things, and we kind of know the cadence. We’re going to learn three small things that benefit marriage. Really? They come out of studies that say, hey, we’ve been watching good marriages, really strong marriages. That’s right. And there’s just some simple things that are present in all of them. 

Exactly. Is that right? Yeah. Rather than seeing how marriages go wrong. How do marriages go right? Yeah. I love that optimism. We’ve been grouping them in groups of three, the first one being purposeful, the second one being present with, and then the third one being positive. 

Okay, let’s start off with number one being purposeful. So highly happy couples generously focus on what their mate is giving to them. The spouse in turn deliberately tries to give back. So, you’ve probably heard the saying, Matt, don’t keep score your marriage. Have you ever heard of that? 

That’s not such a good thing, but this turns it on its head a little bit. Actually, it can be helpful to keep score if we do it in a way that says, wow, I am so blessed. And here’s the way why? Here’s the score. You know what? My score is huge because I have a spouse who does this other thing. 

So, as we talk about being purposeful, it’s focusing on the right thing. Yes, I think it is a purposeful focus on gratitude and gifts and blessings. And even as you think about that, I think this is very much a spiritual exercise because it points us to the giver of all good gifts, which is God. 

And so, I think very much it is a skill that’s a blessing, not only for a marriage relationship, but also individually. It has the mindset where I see myself as the beneficiary in relationship. Yes. Which is a huge paradigm. Joy flows out of gratitude. And so, part of what we’re talking about is highly happy couples. 

And by being intentional in the area of gratitude, it’s like planting seeds that then the fruit or the plant that grows is joy that comes from that. And so intentional appreciation and gratitude leads to experiencing joy. And I think one small exercise that sometimes I have couples do is even incorporating this in prayer. 

And different couples have a different level of comfortability in how and when they pray together, but for 30 days, each spouse picks something they are grateful for whether it’s about their character or whether it’s about something they do. They’re thoughtful about that and then incorporate it into prayer with each other so that they’re praying thanking God and then the spouse hears that exactly. 

Okay, that’s important Yes, that is important. And so, it incorporates that idea of gratefulness, but also an expression and in a spiritual component with that as well. I like that. How about number two? Number two, highly happy couples fully invest emotionally in their marriage by risking vulnerability. 

This leads to a dramatically increased security and happiness in the relationship. Okay, so this is in the past. In the present category. It is. In the present. Yes. And the presence that this is asking for is vulnerability. What does this build in marriage? Vulnerability. So, appropriate vulnerability builds trust when there is a healthy relationship, where there’s safety. 

Yeah. Okay? When there’s safety, then I open up and step into risking vulnerability. And that leads to deeper connection, deeper security. And let’s put our finger on why that’s so difficult. This is the person who could reject me at the most painful level. Yes. Absolutely. And I am risking that possible rejection by opening myself up. Right. Absolutely. You put your finger on it. And I think when we do that, there can be shame or embarrassment that flows in or even in some cases, other times, maybe in my life that I’ve been vulnerable, or I’ve stepped into vulnerability and it hasn’t gone well. 

Right? That can lead to me struggling to risk opening up to be vulnerable. And so all of those are certainly factors in this area of vulnerability that are important to keep in mind. But what we are saying is a deeper, more secure connection in the marriage relationship flows out of vulnerability, risking vulnerability. 

What does vulnerability look like, then, in marriage? You had the qualifier, I noticed, of appropriate vulnerability. I’m curious what you mean by that qualifier. Yeah. That qualifier came out of a place that says, you know what, if there’s been betrayals and broken trust, okay, in that scenario with that couple, we would expect something different than a healthy relationship where there hasn’t been those injuries or betrayals. 

If the care and infrastructure is not there to support the vulnerability. And so there is a wherewithal or some wisdom required here as we think about being vulnerable. And in some of those cases, the answer is not necessarily closure or concealment. The answer is help in many different areas. 

Right. And vulnerability that’s stewarded. Correct. So, we’re going to go to this place now of just good vulnerability in marriage and I had to think as you explain that Kaleb, that’s really intimacy and I’ve heard people use the intimacy as into me you see. Yeah, right. And so, what a powerful thing. 

Really isn’t marriage about intimacy. Yeah, it is. It’s that whole idea of being fully known. That I know your heart, I know your fears, I know your struggles, and I love you just the same. And I think that vulnerability leads to an opportunity to have that type of security and acceptance to say, wow, somebody I love so much. I’ve shared the parts of me, the warts and all, and they love me. And they have not rejected me. And this really, I think, elevates the beauty of physical intimacy. Yes. That physical intimacy really is just a reflection of a genuine intimacy where we have exposed and shared all of us with each other. 

Yeah. It’s like at the pinnacle of intimacy. Right? Yeah. I really like that. Number three, highly happy couples give their spouse most of the credit for their relationship success and they live in regular conscious gratitude as a result. We’re getting back to that thankful piece, which has really been, I think, a common thread through these talks. 

Somehow thankfulness has been very relevant. And it does in this one. Yeah, I think you’re right. There are a number of places where that gratitude theme shows up. And I think there is opportunity for us individually. And I think here’s the piece that we can actively do on our own today. Sometimes, as we think about building a healthy, happy relationship, there are certain things we just need to do together, as a couple. 

But if you think about it, this is something today I can go out and start intentionally doing on my own, my inner thought life, that I can orient myself towards gratefulness. Towards giving my spouse credit, and, I think take it a step further so that when we’re at potluck or when we’re meeting someone here or there, it affects the way we speak. 

It does. And I’m building them up to others and saying, wow, I can’t believe she married me, you know, and it’s a way of not just flippantly saying that but truly meaning it and living from that place. We all marry up and it’s good that we see it that way, isn’t it? It’s good for us. It’s good for our spouse. 

It’s good for our relationship. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That’s neat. Thanks, Kaleb. Thanks again for three small things. I think that’s a refreshing perspective to say, what are those small things? What are those things that matter? It’s so incredibly important to learn what matters. And that’s what makes a person good at what they do is they learn what matters. Every apprentice is learning basically what matters in whatever it is that they do, whether it’s building construction or whether it’s blacksmithing or whether it’s learning some medical skill or whatever. They’re always listening and learning, okay, now what should I be looking for? 

What should I be watching for? What is it that really matters in this condition and makes the long-term difference? What if we, as husbands and wives, were as studious about what matters. And really, I feel like you’ve done that with all of these podcasts. Okay. All of these now together are 12 things that matter. 

Yeah. And I think they’re really accessible. And I think that’s exciting. Thanks. It’s been a pleasure to be with you. Thanks, each one, for being here. As always, we trust that these podcasts have provided hope and healing and direction and good teaching for you, so thanks, each one. 

Contact us at [email protected] at any time with comments or feedback or questions. We always welcome that. Thanks. Goodbye.