We are fearfully and wonderfully made. God has created us spiritual beings, housed in a biological frame. He has given us minds to think and feel. He has placed within us a need for relationship. These four areas, spiritual, biological, psychological and relational can be thought of as four dimensions making up our existence. Thus, when personal issues arise they will likely have roots in one or more of these dimensions. Furthermore, they will likely have fruits in one or more of these dimensions. As we strive to help individuals, it is to our advantage to understand these four domains. In this webinar, Ted Witzig Jr. explains this multi-dimensional reality of the human being and examples how helpful it is to understand them in practically helping people.
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Okay, very good. We’re getting the recorder going here and
we’re recording. So, again, welcome everyone, great to have you along. Thanks,
Arlan, for that introduction. Psalm 139:14 we read this, that we are fearfully
and wonderfully made. And I think we all understand that makes a lot of sense,
but that means a lot of things.
we’re recording. So, again, welcome everyone, great to have you along. Thanks,
Arlan, for that introduction. Psalm 139:14 we read this, that we are fearfully
and wonderfully made. And I think we all understand that makes a lot of sense,
but that means a lot of things.
But one of the things that being said is we’re very complex,
and I think tonight as we talk, that might be a pile on, so to speak, that
we’re complex and the things that we do and the reasons why we do it sometimes
isn’t as simple is what we might first think.
and I think tonight as we talk, that might be a pile on, so to speak, that
we’re complex and the things that we do and the reasons why we do it sometimes
isn’t as simple is what we might first think.
And, so tonight we’d like to help bring a little bit of clarity
to that. And I actually remember that I was asked by Brother Mark years ago
before I was working here to work with some individuals. And, I just found
myself at a complete loss. Didn’t know what to say, didn’t know what questions
to ask, didn’t know how to follow up.
to that. And I actually remember that I was asked by Brother Mark years ago
before I was working here to work with some individuals. And, I just found
myself at a complete loss. Didn’t know what to say, didn’t know what questions
to ask, didn’t know how to follow up.
You felt that way too? I felt that way. I felt that way. I
brought you on to here clear this up. But you know what, I ran into Brother
Brian Sutter, who’s a counselor here, and I said, Brian, what can you give me?
What is the low hanging fruit here on how I should go into a counseling
meeting.
brought you on to here clear this up. But you know what, I ran into Brother
Brian Sutter, who’s a counselor here, and I said, Brian, what can you give me?
What is the low hanging fruit here on how I should go into a counseling
meeting.
How do I engage this new convert or whatever? And he says, You
know what, think about four different dimensions of a person. God created us
with four dimensions. We are biological, we are relational, we are
psychological, we are spiritual. And, he unpacked those in a way that made me
less frightened to engage a person.
know what, think about four different dimensions of a person. God created us
with four dimensions. We are biological, we are relational, we are
psychological, we are spiritual. And, he unpacked those in a way that made me
less frightened to engage a person.
So, Ted, I’d like you to share a little bit about what these
four dimensions mean. Break ’em out so we can distinguish between them and then
sense how that would impact how we might view an issue or go about a
counseling, helper situation. Does that make sense? It does. Sounds good. Let’s
take a look here.
four dimensions mean. Break ’em out so we can distinguish between them and then
sense how that would impact how we might view an issue or go about a
counseling, helper situation. Does that make sense? It does. Sounds good. Let’s
take a look here.
What we have is these four different areas, and it’s important
to understand too, we could break this in a lot of different ways. We’ve got
other areas like our vocation or intellectual, other things that we’ll keep it
down to four because that really is the largest bucket that really helps.
to understand too, we could break this in a lot of different ways. We’ve got
other areas like our vocation or intellectual, other things that we’ll keep it
down to four because that really is the largest bucket that really helps.
What’s interesting to think about, many times when we look at
problems, we tend to look at it through one lens. It tends to be our favorite
lens or the lens that makes the most sense to us. And so, because of it,
sometimes it gives us a unidimensional view of something and because of that
we’re blinded to some other things.
problems, we tend to look at it through one lens. It tends to be our favorite
lens or the lens that makes the most sense to us. And so, because of it,
sometimes it gives us a unidimensional view of something and because of that
we’re blinded to some other things.
So tonight we’re just going to start by just looking at what
these areas are. First area, biological, we’re talking about our physical
makeup. We have a physical body, our metabolism, genetics, hormones, our
neurotransmitters, what kind of conditions we have, things like that. But you
know what, some of the things that are in this area that we know make a
difference like sleep, how many of us function better when we get adequate
sleep?
these areas are. First area, biological, we’re talking about our physical
makeup. We have a physical body, our metabolism, genetics, hormones, our
neurotransmitters, what kind of conditions we have, things like that. But you
know what, some of the things that are in this area that we know make a
difference like sleep, how many of us function better when we get adequate
sleep?
But it’s so fascinating because sometimes when people are in
the middle of really important spiritual decisions, they’re trying to really
discern something, they’ll forget that sleep is a really important part of
their spiritual decision. Okay? And, so what happens is we accidentally put or
in between these things, Is it spiritual or is it biological?
the middle of really important spiritual decisions, they’re trying to really
discern something, they’ll forget that sleep is a really important part of
their spiritual decision. Okay? And, so what happens is we accidentally put or
in between these things, Is it spiritual or is it biological?
Well, the reality is as we’re trying to discern, having
adequate sleep and taking care of our wellbeing, we’re going to be able to
function a lot better. I have learned a little bit about myself and that is if
I am hungry, yeah, like really hungry. I shouldn’t talk about budget.
Seriously. No. It’s funny.
adequate sleep and taking care of our wellbeing, we’re going to be able to
function a lot better. I have learned a little bit about myself and that is if
I am hungry, yeah, like really hungry. I shouldn’t talk about budget.
Seriously. No. It’s funny.
It’s the truth. But I have learned that things like
emotionally, I’m not on my game, so to speak, when I’m really hungry. So, I
don’t know, blood sugar, there’s probably some biological reason for that. And,
I think one of the things is that on one hand seems like it’s so simple.
Hungry, I shouldn’t talk about this, or sleepy should get some sleep.
emotionally, I’m not on my game, so to speak, when I’m really hungry. So, I
don’t know, blood sugar, there’s probably some biological reason for that. And,
I think one of the things is that on one hand seems like it’s so simple.
Hungry, I shouldn’t talk about this, or sleepy should get some sleep.
Or, Oh, you know what? I’ve got it cold and I’m not feeling
really good. I’m irritable. You know, those kinds of things. But sometimes we
on one hand notice that, and then we just go right over the top of it. If we go
on to the next area here, we’ve got the relational area. We’ve got these
different roles as individuals, some sort of child where we have children,
parents, or employee at work or friends.
really good. I’m irritable. You know, those kinds of things. But sometimes we
on one hand notice that, and then we just go right over the top of it. If we go
on to the next area here, we’ve got the relational area. We’ve got these
different roles as individuals, some sort of child where we have children,
parents, or employee at work or friends.
But in our relationships, we’ve also got an attachment history
and what we talk about attachment. Some people come from a secure base. They
grew up knowing that they were loved, knowing that even if they made mistakes,
they were going to be embraced. Other people come from a place that was cold or
rejecting, criticized, to make even a small mistake they were jumped on, all
those things.
and what we talk about attachment. Some people come from a secure base. They
grew up knowing that they were loved, knowing that even if they made mistakes,
they were going to be embraced. Other people come from a place that was cold or
rejecting, criticized, to make even a small mistake they were jumped on, all
those things.
And because of that, as they go into other relationships,
They’re going to bring that with them. I had someone work with me once, and it
was a receptionist and I got on the phone and called her at the front desk and
I said, Hey, could you come back and talk with me?
They’re going to bring that with them. I had someone work with me once, and it
was a receptionist and I got on the phone and called her at the front desk and
I said, Hey, could you come back and talk with me?
She came back and had a nice conversation and she looked pale
and I was just like, are you okay? And she says, is that all? And I was like,
What’s going on? Her last boss before she came, of course, was a screamer. And
when she got called back to the office, she was going to be yelled at and
sometimes things got thrown.
and I was just like, are you okay? And she says, is that all? And I was like,
What’s going on? Her last boss before she came, of course, was a screamer. And
when she got called back to the office, she was going to be yelled at and
sometimes things got thrown.
Well, I had no idea that was part of her history, but that was
part of her. Another one is our interpersonal style. Some of us are extroverts,
some introverts, some have very smooth social skills, some social skills are
pretty rocky. And so all those things come into play at the relational area.
And the psychological area, what we’re really talking about here is what’s
going on in our mind related to our thinking and our emotions. And our thinking
has different patterns in terms of what we pay attention to or not, and our
feelings do as well. Some people, by their nature are very reactive
emotionally, and other people, it just seems like nothing ruffles them.
part of her. Another one is our interpersonal style. Some of us are extroverts,
some introverts, some have very smooth social skills, some social skills are
pretty rocky. And so all those things come into play at the relational area.
And the psychological area, what we’re really talking about here is what’s
going on in our mind related to our thinking and our emotions. And our thinking
has different patterns in terms of what we pay attention to or not, and our
feelings do as well. Some people, by their nature are very reactive
emotionally, and other people, it just seems like nothing ruffles them.
Some are highly logical some people are really emotional, but
there’s a link between thought and feeling. Right. I’m glad you brought that
up. I think one of the things is that how we think about something, it has got
a relationship to what we feel about it. And so when something happens, without
even thinking about it, you rapidly interpret that to them what it was.
there’s a link between thought and feeling. Right. I’m glad you brought that
up. I think one of the things is that how we think about something, it has got
a relationship to what we feel about it. And so when something happens, without
even thinking about it, you rapidly interpret that to them what it was.
And so, if I spilled something. And, my rapid thing was, I’m
stupid. Okay. Versus I made a mistake. Okay. It’s going to lead to I’m stupid
is going to lead me to shame. Or I made a mistake, is going to lead me to Oh,
that’s a bummer. And so very rapidly how we interpret things moves us onto how
we feel about those things, which leads us on to how we’re going to respond
that. Well, let’s take this diagram here, the VIN diagram where we’ve got
overlapping circles, right? So let’s take that lady that you had talked about
last time. She had a relational history. I get screamed at when I get called
back.
stupid. Okay. Versus I made a mistake. Okay. It’s going to lead to I’m stupid
is going to lead me to shame. Or I made a mistake, is going to lead me to Oh,
that’s a bummer. And so very rapidly how we interpret things moves us onto how
we feel about those things, which leads us on to how we’re going to respond
that. Well, let’s take this diagram here, the VIN diagram where we’ve got
overlapping circles, right? So let’s take that lady that you had talked about
last time. She had a relational history. I get screamed at when I get called
back.
Right. That was her thinking, which made her pale. Feeling in
certain ways she was cowering close. Right. And, you know what? Her ability to
feel confident to ask me a question. I had to ask her. And, the thing was, you
could just see that in her and it was how she responded very differently than
if somebody’s history or somebody’s memories were let’s dialogue, or, ask if
you have a question, can make a big difference. Also in this area, memories
play a big part of this too.
certain ways she was cowering close. Right. And, you know what? Her ability to
feel confident to ask me a question. I had to ask her. And, the thing was, you
could just see that in her and it was how she responded very differently than
if somebody’s history or somebody’s memories were let’s dialogue, or, ask if
you have a question, can make a big difference. Also in this area, memories
play a big part of this too.
Just because if you have a positive set of memories with the
authority figures or teachers and again, that shows how these overlaps between
relational and emotional or versus very fearful can come into play. Lastly, we
had the spiritual area here and obviously we’re a living soul and things like
somebody’s faith in Christ or the absence of faith in Christ.
authority figures or teachers and again, that shows how these overlaps between
relational and emotional or versus very fearful can come into play. Lastly, we
had the spiritual area here and obviously we’re a living soul and things like
somebody’s faith in Christ or the absence of faith in Christ.
Where this person is at in their growth, their sanctification,
if they’re trying to overcome a besetting sin, or if they’re in that time of
growth. We have your peace and just how people perceive peace with God.
Sometimes for people, they perceive peace as very emotional, going back to the
previous bucket, very much a feeling oriented thing where some people are able
to look at it and say, Oh, this is my peace with God, or some kind of
combination of those things. An important one in this area is how people
picture God. Is that what you mean by God image? And, people by their nature
have a God concept, like he’s all powerful.
if they’re trying to overcome a besetting sin, or if they’re in that time of
growth. We have your peace and just how people perceive peace with God.
Sometimes for people, they perceive peace as very emotional, going back to the
previous bucket, very much a feeling oriented thing where some people are able
to look at it and say, Oh, this is my peace with God, or some kind of
combination of those things. An important one in this area is how people
picture God. Is that what you mean by God image? And, people by their nature
have a God concept, like he’s all powerful.
He made the Earth and wrote the Bible and those kind of things.
But one’s God image is how somebody feels. God feels towards them. And, the
reality is if somebody has a picture of God as a cosmic accountant waiting for
them to screw up so that he can zap ’em, that’s going to have a big impact on
how they view God and view themselves. And that may have had some roots in the
relational, right? Absolutely. In their relational history with perhaps a
father or a mother or an authority figure. The same thing is true if somebody has
an overly positive skewed God image, God is the cosmic buddy and not a joke.
Not that they have no sense of holiness. So my encouragement here is just as we
look at these four areas, is to remember that as a human, where these things
and we are spiritual and biological and relational and psychological and
wonderfully made. This is how God has knit us.
But one’s God image is how somebody feels. God feels towards them. And, the
reality is if somebody has a picture of God as a cosmic accountant waiting for
them to screw up so that he can zap ’em, that’s going to have a big impact on
how they view God and view themselves. And that may have had some roots in the
relational, right? Absolutely. In their relational history with perhaps a
father or a mother or an authority figure. The same thing is true if somebody has
an overly positive skewed God image, God is the cosmic buddy and not a joke.
Not that they have no sense of holiness. So my encouragement here is just as we
look at these four areas, is to remember that as a human, where these things
and we are spiritual and biological and relational and psychological and
wonderfully made. This is how God has knit us.
It’s really marvelous. Go on here. So I would like you to give
an example. Okay. Because we’ve talked about how these overlap. How we can have
a similar symptom. So let’s say it’s confusion and anxiety on the screen there.
So, a person comes in and they’re confused and anxious and each one of these
different dimensions might be at play and some.
an example. Okay. Because we’ve talked about how these overlap. How we can have
a similar symptom. So let’s say it’s confusion and anxiety on the screen there.
So, a person comes in and they’re confused and anxious and each one of these
different dimensions might be at play and some.
It might be a very different thing at play here giving that
same symptom. That’s correct. Is that right? Yes. I’d love to hear experience
or what does that look like? Okay. So I’m going to start with just that analogy
that somebody has a hammer, everything becomes a nail.
same symptom. That’s correct. Is that right? Yes. I’d love to hear experience
or what does that look like? Okay. So I’m going to start with just that analogy
that somebody has a hammer, everything becomes a nail.
Well, if somebody by their nature sees things through one of
these lenses more than another, what can start to happen is if they see the
symptom of some confusion and some anxiety and they see everything through the
relational lens, or they see everything through the psychological, they’re going
to automatically go to that.
these lenses more than another, what can start to happen is if they see the
symptom of some confusion and some anxiety and they see everything through the
relational lens, or they see everything through the psychological, they’re going
to automatically go to that.
What I want to do is just give some examples of situations
where they had the symptom present of confusion. Like, I don’t know where I’m
at in my life and I’m just not feeling very good and I’m just feeling tense or
anxious, and that’s the presenting symptom. But then, show how roots in
different ones of those areas were actually in play.
where they had the symptom present of confusion. Like, I don’t know where I’m
at in my life and I’m just not feeling very good and I’m just feeling tense or
anxious, and that’s the presenting symptom. But then, show how roots in
different ones of those areas were actually in play.
And how, if you automatically assume that confusion anxiety
means it’s this. You can accidentally come to the wrong conclusion. Right.
We’re far too carefully and wonderfully made and I think the other part is we
don’t want to overcomplicate it either, but I’ll give you an example.
means it’s this. You can accidentally come to the wrong conclusion. Right.
We’re far too carefully and wonderfully made and I think the other part is we
don’t want to overcomplicate it either, but I’ll give you an example.
And I just want to make a note, I’m going to give some examples
from my experience, but we want to be aware of confidentiality and things like
that, and I’m never going to divulge somebody’s history. But, I can think
specifically of situations and a situation in which someone came to name and
was feeling confused, anxious, discouraged, and had done seemingly all the
right things.
from my experience, but we want to be aware of confidentiality and things like
that, and I’m never going to divulge somebody’s history. But, I can think
specifically of situations and a situation in which someone came to name and
was feeling confused, anxious, discouraged, and had done seemingly all the
right things.
You know, talk to friends, talk to her minister or elder, had
even gone see the counselor and trying to figure out why I just don’t feel
good. And I was down the line of it, in terms of where the sister came and she
said, What’s wrong with me? And I’m listening.
even gone see the counselor and trying to figure out why I just don’t feel
good. And I was down the line of it, in terms of where the sister came and she
said, What’s wrong with me? And I’m listening.
And, I said, and this shows too how the Lord helps us as we
stumble along. Okay because I didn’t really have that insight, but I just said
to her, So when’s the last time you went to your doctor to have a physical and
get some blood work? She goes, Oh, I was the doctor all the time with my kids.
stumble along. Okay because I didn’t really have that insight, but I just said
to her, So when’s the last time you went to your doctor to have a physical and
get some blood work? She goes, Oh, I was the doctor all the time with my kids.
Yeah. But I don’t have time to say, Why don’t you go see your
doctor? And, she goes sees her doctor, comes back. Her thyroid isn’t just a
little off, it’s in the next week off. And when the thyroid was corrected, the
confusion, discouragement, even the feelings that God was distant from her and
upset with her went away.
doctor? And, she goes sees her doctor, comes back. Her thyroid isn’t just a
little off, it’s in the next week off. And when the thyroid was corrected, the
confusion, discouragement, even the feelings that God was distant from her and
upset with her went away.
And, so because the reality was that the thyroid was playing on
her ability to process things emotionally. Okay. So that was a physical
example, but it ripples into emotional, it rippled into spiritual, how she
interpreted things spiritually. And yet it was that thyroid.
her ability to process things emotionally. Okay. So that was a physical
example, but it ripples into emotional, it rippled into spiritual, how she
interpreted things spiritually. And yet it was that thyroid.
It’s coming onto another one. And this will sometimes happen.
People be in a situation and still confused and still deal with that anxiety,
things are not going well at where I want to be in life. I’m trying to make
some decisions and I can think about it like that man who I need to make some
decision that’s just not going and things like that.
People be in a situation and still confused and still deal with that anxiety,
things are not going well at where I want to be in life. I’m trying to make
some decisions and I can think about it like that man who I need to make some
decision that’s just not going and things like that.
And, I just ask some questions about what’s going on.
Everything seems to be going well from the outside, right? Everything looks
well. Until we stumble on the fact, I said, So how are things going at home?
Everything’s going fine, you know. And then all of a sudden there’s that little
nugget that something wasn’t okay with the marriage.
Everything seems to be going well from the outside, right? Everything looks
well. Until we stumble on the fact, I said, So how are things going at home?
Everything’s going fine, you know. And then all of a sudden there’s that little
nugget that something wasn’t okay with the marriage.
And so I followed up on it. Said, Well, tell me about that.
Come to find out he’s holding bitterness. He is very, very angry and hurt by
some of his wife’s behavior and actions to him. And, by the way, I don’t think
he was wrong in being hurt, but that had become a seed that became a root, that
root of bitterness. And so here you have a relational issue that had spiritual
ripples. But also psychologically, his thinking. He would ruminate over this
hurt and at the same time try to keep everything looking good. Okay. And guess
what? After a while, that concept of prayers being hindered. Right. That
concept of his biologically sleep starts being disrupted and here it is from
relational. Okay. Makes sense. Let’s go to the next one, Perfectionism. This,
by the way, is something that we see a lot and in folks coming in for
counseling.
Come to find out he’s holding bitterness. He is very, very angry and hurt by
some of his wife’s behavior and actions to him. And, by the way, I don’t think
he was wrong in being hurt, but that had become a seed that became a root, that
root of bitterness. And so here you have a relational issue that had spiritual
ripples. But also psychologically, his thinking. He would ruminate over this
hurt and at the same time try to keep everything looking good. Okay. And guess
what? After a while, that concept of prayers being hindered. Right. That
concept of his biologically sleep starts being disrupted and here it is from
relational. Okay. Makes sense. Let’s go to the next one, Perfectionism. This,
by the way, is something that we see a lot and in folks coming in for
counseling.
And you know what, perfectionism is a double edged sword.
Because of it, somebody can really be good at something, but then it can also
then have this double, this other edge that sets somebody up for never being
satisfied or always seeing what’s wrong. And so think about an example of a
wife who wanted maybe really much to do good in all these different areas of
the a wife.
Because of it, somebody can really be good at something, but then it can also
then have this double, this other edge that sets somebody up for never being
satisfied or always seeing what’s wrong. And so think about an example of a
wife who wanted maybe really much to do good in all these different areas of
the a wife.
Wanted to be a good wife, a good mother, good church member,
good friend, good you name it, good homemaker, good cook. But it wasn’t just a
good, the best. And when there was a mistake, okay, when something didn’t go,
what started to happen? Then it was failure. And then it was comparison. And so
what you started to have happen is things that could have been neutral.
good friend, good you name it, good homemaker, good cook. But it wasn’t just a
good, the best. And when there was a mistake, okay, when something didn’t go,
what started to happen? Then it was failure. And then it was comparison. And so
what you started to have happen is things that could have been neutral.
You know, this happened. This didn’t turn out the way that I
wanted. Automatically became a source of shame, a source of self doubt, a
source of comparison. So there you start to have those psychological things
starting to be comparison to others relationally. Spiritually then, you start
to get, you know, it’s pretty hard to think on the things that are true and
honest and sure and lovely and good report. When all you can see is, instead of
the 10 things that you did well, the only thing you can see is the one thing
that didn’t go right. And then that starts to just grow and unfortunately, this
can even happen for people when they’re trying to do well spiritually.
wanted. Automatically became a source of shame, a source of self doubt, a
source of comparison. So there you start to have those psychological things
starting to be comparison to others relationally. Spiritually then, you start
to get, you know, it’s pretty hard to think on the things that are true and
honest and sure and lovely and good report. When all you can see is, instead of
the 10 things that you did well, the only thing you can see is the one thing
that didn’t go right. And then that starts to just grow and unfortunately, this
can even happen for people when they’re trying to do well spiritually.
And, the desire to be growing in Christ becomes a pass fail
kind of thing. That becomes really crushing, crippling. Lastly, spiritual
apathy. And, this is one, I’m going to take the example here of a young adult
who graduates from college on their own, got a good job doing well, those kind
of things.
kind of thing. That becomes really crushing, crippling. Lastly, spiritual
apathy. And, this is one, I’m going to take the example here of a young adult
who graduates from college on their own, got a good job doing well, those kind
of things.
But who also in part of that doing well is starting to just get
sloppy spiritually, not being wise with his time management, not being wise
with what kind of media he’s consuming, and particularly not being wise with
some of what he’s doing on the internet late at night. And so he started to
slip into, saw something that shouldn’t have seen there, but then, when he goes
to the next, he is at church and he is sitting down next to a brother and
brother says, Hey, you graduated, how are you doing? How are you doing in your
life? And, right there he has the opportunity to say, You know what? I actually
am struggling a bit, but he doesn’t take it and instead he goes, Yeah,
everything’s good. You know, hey, and it has that chummy kind of keep it all on
and just keeps going surface. And then the more surface he gets, the more
erosion he experiences. And then you know what starts to happen? It comes time
to sit down and do his devotion. And what do you think he feels? He doesn’t
feel like doing his devotion.
sloppy spiritually, not being wise with his time management, not being wise
with what kind of media he’s consuming, and particularly not being wise with
some of what he’s doing on the internet late at night. And so he started to
slip into, saw something that shouldn’t have seen there, but then, when he goes
to the next, he is at church and he is sitting down next to a brother and
brother says, Hey, you graduated, how are you doing? How are you doing in your
life? And, right there he has the opportunity to say, You know what? I actually
am struggling a bit, but he doesn’t take it and instead he goes, Yeah,
everything’s good. You know, hey, and it has that chummy kind of keep it all on
and just keeps going surface. And then the more surface he gets, the more
erosion he experiences. And then you know what starts to happen? It comes time
to sit down and do his devotion. And what do you think he feels? He doesn’t
feel like doing his devotion.
He feels distance. And so as he’s doing that and then he is at
the same time thinking, I really need to get married. And other people are
telling me you need to get married. When you going to get married. And so what
happens? Here he is at a place of spiritual apathy, confusion, some anxiety and
what’s he got, he’s actually at a place where he needs to put his roots back in
the bedrock. And that decline has it roots spiritually but it showed up in
skill, it showed up in comparison, showed up in relationships, isolation.
the same time thinking, I really need to get married. And other people are
telling me you need to get married. When you going to get married. And so what
happens? Here he is at a place of spiritual apathy, confusion, some anxiety and
what’s he got, he’s actually at a place where he needs to put his roots back in
the bedrock. And that decline has it roots spiritually but it showed up in
skill, it showed up in comparison, showed up in relationships, isolation.
So that makes sense. And I think those bring a little bit of
clarity as we look at some keywords there to again, bring those lenses out.
Really that’s what we want to do tonight is to unpack this well enough that we
can all taste these four bins or these dimensions as we engage people to be
thinking about them and to approach situations from one or more of these
lenses.
clarity as we look at some keywords there to again, bring those lenses out.
Really that’s what we want to do tonight is to unpack this well enough that we
can all taste these four bins or these dimensions as we engage people to be
thinking about them and to approach situations from one or more of these
lenses.
So, let’s go now, Ted, to what does counsel look like? And,
we’ve picked up on some of those things. But, some questions here. Yeah. So,
these are examples of things that could be brought up as you’re interacting
with somebody, and it doesn’t have to be used like a checklist, but, as you’re
talking with somebody, particularly if you find out that somebody is struggling
with something or they’re looping, spinning, Hey, how’s your sleep been?
we’ve picked up on some of those things. But, some questions here. Yeah. So,
these are examples of things that could be brought up as you’re interacting
with somebody, and it doesn’t have to be used like a checklist, but, as you’re
talking with somebody, particularly if you find out that somebody is struggling
with something or they’re looping, spinning, Hey, how’s your sleep been?
Your sleep been okay? You taking care of yourself? Sometimes
even as ministers, it feels almost like it’s not a spiritual topic to ask how
your sleep is. Or how you doing, taking care of yourself. Are you getting rest?
Are you getting exercise?
even as ministers, it feels almost like it’s not a spiritual topic to ask how
your sleep is. Or how you doing, taking care of yourself. Are you getting rest?
Are you getting exercise?
When’s the last time you saw your physician? The reality is our
body is oftentimes in some ways, you can think of it in computer terms, it’s
the hardware. It’s the hardware that runs the software. Yeah. And when that
hardware is not running and it’s not right, the software isn’t going to run
correctly.
body is oftentimes in some ways, you can think of it in computer terms, it’s
the hardware. It’s the hardware that runs the software. Yeah. And when that
hardware is not running and it’s not right, the software isn’t going to run
correctly.
So I see these kind of questions, again, being open ended,
we’ve talked about open ended questions. You can’t really answer ’em, check ’em
off with a yes or. But you’re asking some questions here to get to some of
these issues here. Exactly. That’s right. What kind of health that they’re in
at that.
we’ve talked about open ended questions. You can’t really answer ’em, check ’em
off with a yes or. But you’re asking some questions here to get to some of
these issues here. Exactly. That’s right. What kind of health that they’re in
at that.
Exactly. And again, during psychological conversations, some of
these questions may be completely irrelevant, right. But on other ones, they
may be right on topic. If we look at the relationship and how are your
relationships, one of the questions that I ask almost every single client when
they come into my office is I say, Tell me about who’s in your support network.
Who are the people that you talk to about this particular thing? Do you have a
minister or elder that you feel closer to? And I just ask questions about that.
Because I want to see somebody’s map of the layout of somebody’s support
network.
these questions may be completely irrelevant, right. But on other ones, they
may be right on topic. If we look at the relationship and how are your
relationships, one of the questions that I ask almost every single client when
they come into my office is I say, Tell me about who’s in your support network.
Who are the people that you talk to about this particular thing? Do you have a
minister or elder that you feel closer to? And I just ask questions about that.
Because I want to see somebody’s map of the layout of somebody’s support
network.
And, because that’s going to be very telling if nobody very
telling if there’s isolation going on. That is going to be an issue we know
Satan likes to work in. Oh, for sure. I can’t tell you how many people that I
worked with have had a thousand acquaintances but zero anchor people.
telling if there’s isolation going on. That is going to be an issue we know
Satan likes to work in. Oh, for sure. I can’t tell you how many people that I
worked with have had a thousand acquaintances but zero anchor people.
Okay. And, so it’s fine to have a thousand acquaintances, but
to have some people that are on the inside that we can actually go to that we
can open up to, I think that’s huge. And I do want to say something right here
to the elders and ministers and the wives. Counselors so appreciate you and
your role in interacting with the Body of Christ. We as counselors here at
ACCFS, do not look at it like there’s the ministers and elders, there’s the church
body, but then we’re really the ones that really deal with things here. No,
we’re a body.
to have some people that are on the inside that we can actually go to that we
can open up to, I think that’s huge. And I do want to say something right here
to the elders and ministers and the wives. Counselors so appreciate you and
your role in interacting with the Body of Christ. We as counselors here at
ACCFS, do not look at it like there’s the ministers and elders, there’s the church
body, but then we’re really the ones that really deal with things here. No,
we’re a body.
We have different parts and different functions, and I work
with people most of the time. I work with people one hour a week and in one
hour a week that isn’t near enough to help people and so, yes, I’m going to do
my best to teach them skills, but to be able to send them out to a relational
environment where there’s a mentor, where there are people who care about that
person if they’re at church or not.
with people most of the time. I work with people one hour a week and in one
hour a week that isn’t near enough to help people and so, yes, I’m going to do
my best to teach them skills, but to be able to send them out to a relational
environment where there’s a mentor, where there are people who care about that
person if they’re at church or not.
To be in that men’s Bible Study that’s going through what’s a
godly man, that is so rich for us to be able to partner with the local church.
We can’t even begin to express. I think that’s really exciting too, Ted,
because that’s what I can do.
godly man, that is so rich for us to be able to partner with the local church.
We can’t even begin to express. I think that’s really exciting too, Ted,
because that’s what I can do.
I can walk next to a person, I can listen. And to be that boots
on the ground, so to speak, absolutely is something I think, that’s exciting.
You know, and I don’t want to overstate this, but literally, this is what I
mean, Right? Things that seem very simple that are done in the local church, go
in and check in on that person or just giving them that text or having that
mentor person.
on the ground, so to speak, absolutely is something I think, that’s exciting.
You know, and I don’t want to overstate this, but literally, this is what I
mean, Right? Things that seem very simple that are done in the local church, go
in and check in on that person or just giving them that text or having that
mentor person.
I specifically remember a situation where an individual did not
take their life because they knew that one person was praying for them. Okay.
They had one person that they knew had them in prayer, and I’m not trying to
put that as a burden on anybody. Like you have to pray for everybody.
take their life because they knew that one person was praying for them. Okay.
They had one person that they knew had them in prayer, and I’m not trying to
put that as a burden on anybody. Like you have to pray for everybody.
But, the point was they had a relational connection that as
much as the isolation in their life said you were alone, they knew that there
was one. And, that’s where again, we can’t reach everybody. We can’t be in all
places at all times. And I’m not putting that on the elders and ministers and
wives to be able to be all but where we are and with who is in our path.
much as the isolation in their life said you were alone, they knew that there
was one. And, that’s where again, we can’t reach everybody. We can’t be in all
places at all times. And I’m not putting that on the elders and ministers and
wives to be able to be all but where we are and with who is in our path.
That touching those people is what we can do. And it’s all that
God asked us to do. Let’s go look at the next one here on the psychological
area. Asking people about their thinking. Sometimes we don’t even think to ask
about that, but let’s say somebody, Well, let me just start this way.
God asked us to do. Let’s go look at the next one here on the psychological
area. Asking people about their thinking. Sometimes we don’t even think to ask
about that, but let’s say somebody, Well, let me just start this way.
I think we’ve all asked the question, How are you feeling? How
do you feel? We’re used to answering that question. But I don’t think anybody’s
ever come up to me and said, Matt, how are you thinking? And, how important
that thinking is to give rise to my feeling.
do you feel? We’re used to answering that question. But I don’t think anybody’s
ever come up to me and said, Matt, how are you thinking? And, how important
that thinking is to give rise to my feeling.
It might be a good question to start out. There’s no question
that as much as I love feelings and as an individual, I’m a feeler. I like to
talk about feelings more than my wife likes to talk about them. But I’ll tell
you this, that feelings oftentimes are given too much power as the indicator of
truth or not truth. Yes. Well, and something you taught me too, Ted, I have
thought about a lot is try as you may, you can’t really change your feelings
too much. Try to feel a certain way, but thinking is a little different, right?
that as much as I love feelings and as an individual, I’m a feeler. I like to
talk about feelings more than my wife likes to talk about them. But I’ll tell
you this, that feelings oftentimes are given too much power as the indicator of
truth or not truth. Yes. Well, and something you taught me too, Ted, I have
thought about a lot is try as you may, you can’t really change your feelings
too much. Try to feel a certain way, but thinking is a little different, right?
You can think about something and wonderfully flip. Four tells
us what to think on. Yes. Because we can think on things. Yep. Which is
powerful. I think so. I think what’s interesting is people all the time are
trying to make themselves happy. And if people could make themselves happy, by
willing themselves happy, the world would be a happy place.
us what to think on. Yes. Because we can think on things. Yep. Which is
powerful. I think so. I think what’s interesting is people all the time are
trying to make themselves happy. And if people could make themselves happy, by
willing themselves happy, the world would be a happy place.
Okay. Right. It is not, the whole concept of willing yourself
to be happy sold millions of self help books. But it doesn’t take people there.
Happiness and joy is the byproduct of healthy, godly living. It’s, the caboose
that follows after pursuing godly values, pursuing godly thinking, living in
the direction of healthy, godly living. And the caboose is those things. It’s going
to be that which I think goes to our final bucket here, too. Spiritual,
when you talk about God directed, that’s something that I can process as I’m
walking along somebody.
to be happy sold millions of self help books. But it doesn’t take people there.
Happiness and joy is the byproduct of healthy, godly living. It’s, the caboose
that follows after pursuing godly values, pursuing godly thinking, living in
the direction of healthy, godly living. And the caboose is those things. It’s going
to be that which I think goes to our final bucket here, too. Spiritual,
when you talk about God directed, that’s something that I can process as I’m
walking along somebody.
It’s like, Oh, okay, I need to square their shoulders and point
them towards Jesus . Okay, I can do that. I don’t know the deep things. But
squaring their shoulders and facing ’em towards Jesus maybe I can do so here’s
some questions that you would use. I’ll do that. One of the things we
oftentimes ask people about, if they’re feeling joyful or if they’re feeling
peaceful.
them towards Jesus . Okay, I can do that. I don’t know the deep things. But
squaring their shoulders and facing ’em towards Jesus maybe I can do so here’s
some questions that you would use. I’ll do that. One of the things we
oftentimes ask people about, if they’re feeling joyful or if they’re feeling
peaceful.
Those are words that are used a lot in the church. We ask
people about their peace, things of that nature. What I want to know is how
they define those things. Okay. When I ask somebody about peace and joy, I want
to know, are they thinking about peace and joy in a flimsy way or a biblical
way?
people about their peace, things of that nature. What I want to know is how
they define those things. Okay. When I ask somebody about peace and joy, I want
to know, are they thinking about peace and joy in a flimsy way or a biblical
way?
Well, and I think your question said that, I think the point
that we want to capture here, Is that a yes? No? Do you have peace with God?
Yes. No. Or do you feel joy? Yes. No, but to ask a question, describe the peace
and joy you have with God. Really gets to that. If a person’s going to try to
put words and their arms around what it means for them and their experience,
you’re going to get a sense of what they mean by peace.
that we want to capture here, Is that a yes? No? Do you have peace with God?
Yes. No. Or do you feel joy? Yes. No, but to ask a question, describe the peace
and joy you have with God. Really gets to that. If a person’s going to try to
put words and their arms around what it means for them and their experience,
you’re going to get a sense of what they mean by peace.
That’s correct, because otherwise, putting it in a yes no
format, actually puts it in a way that people have to answer it in a
dichotomous fashion. So it’s like saying to the person who feels deep sorrow
because somebody has just died and they’re feeling very, very heavy.
format, actually puts it in a way that people have to answer it in a
dichotomous fashion. So it’s like saying to the person who feels deep sorrow
because somebody has just died and they’re feeling very, very heavy.
But also that they know that that person is in heaven. They can
have abiding peace and joy in the midst of sorrow. Conflicting emotion. And too
many times, we’re talking about these in kind of an emotional way. Another one
is living an overcoming life and overcoming sin.
have abiding peace and joy in the midst of sorrow. Conflicting emotion. And too
many times, we’re talking about these in kind of an emotional way. Another one
is living an overcoming life and overcoming sin.
And, this is a really important one because I like what you
said about squaring people’s shoulders. Because oftentimes in the churches
we’re walking with somebody, let’s say they’re struggling with pornography.
They’re struggling with some kind of thing, a mentor, working with somebody and
let’s say they’ve been making progress, but then they’ve had a slip, okay.
said about squaring people’s shoulders. Because oftentimes in the churches
we’re walking with somebody, let’s say they’re struggling with pornography.
They’re struggling with some kind of thing, a mentor, working with somebody and
let’s say they’ve been making progress, but then they’ve had a slip, okay.
And they’ve been doing really well, and then they had the
setback. Okay? So then the question is, what does that setback mean? Okay. What
Satan wants it to mean is, throw it all away. It’s, you know what, you had a
winning streak of this long. It’s now gone forget it. Chalk it up, might as
well head out there.
setback. Okay? So then the question is, what does that setback mean? Okay. What
Satan wants it to mean is, throw it all away. It’s, you know what, you had a
winning streak of this long. It’s now gone forget it. Chalk it up, might as
well head out there.
And what we have to help people see that part of overcoming in
the spiritual dimension is also how we handle setback. And that we help each
other to reset, to learn from the setback, to learn from the slip, to learn
from, how did Satan get at me, how did I allow that to happen? And then let’s
resquare our shoulders.
the spiritual dimension is also how we handle setback. And that we help each
other to reset, to learn from the setback, to learn from the slip, to learn
from, how did Satan get at me, how did I allow that to happen? And then let’s
resquare our shoulders.
Let’s refocus on the goal and let’s get moving. Yeah. Well, and
I think too, Ted, it really brings up this topic of deliverance, which we hear
a lot too. What does it mean to be delivered from a certain vice? What it
sounds like you’re saying is deliverance is not without opposition. Right. Or
without temptation. Right. But it’s God providing deliverance daily in this
situation. And which requires us to walk alongside people to help. Exactly. And
I think you bring up a great point is a lot of times people view God as either
helping them or not helping them in terms of the presence of the miraculous,
and I want to say that somebody who experiences a miraculous no more
temptation, that can happen. You’ve heard of that. We’re going to say praise
God for that. But in many ways, we see instead of a fast miracle, we see slow
miracle where God is helping in the day by day, daily grace, daily bread, daily
accountability. And you know what, the reality is that a slow miracle is no
more or more no less miraculous than a fast one. No, that’s good.
I think too, Ted, it really brings up this topic of deliverance, which we hear
a lot too. What does it mean to be delivered from a certain vice? What it
sounds like you’re saying is deliverance is not without opposition. Right. Or
without temptation. Right. But it’s God providing deliverance daily in this
situation. And which requires us to walk alongside people to help. Exactly. And
I think you bring up a great point is a lot of times people view God as either
helping them or not helping them in terms of the presence of the miraculous,
and I want to say that somebody who experiences a miraculous no more
temptation, that can happen. You’ve heard of that. We’re going to say praise
God for that. But in many ways, we see instead of a fast miracle, we see slow
miracle where God is helping in the day by day, daily grace, daily bread, daily
accountability. And you know what, the reality is that a slow miracle is no
more or more no less miraculous than a fast one. No, that’s good.
Okay. I want to move on here to some of the top reasons that we
see folks coming in to ACCFS. Sure. And, the reason for that is I think this is
going to be helpful, Ted, because as ministers in our churches, as we look out
in our congregations, we could be pretty well sure that these are there. Does
that make sense? Yes. These are there, and what we want to do is, okay, if we
engage people, these are issues that people are dealing with. And so what does
it look like with these dimensions? Okay, so here is, and you had divided this
slide, so in terms of the people oftentimes want to know what are the top
reasons why do people reach out to ACCFS?
see folks coming in to ACCFS. Sure. And, the reason for that is I think this is
going to be helpful, Ted, because as ministers in our churches, as we look out
in our congregations, we could be pretty well sure that these are there. Does
that make sense? Yes. These are there, and what we want to do is, okay, if we
engage people, these are issues that people are dealing with. And so what does
it look like with these dimensions? Okay, so here is, and you had divided this
slide, so in terms of the people oftentimes want to know what are the top
reasons why do people reach out to ACCFS?
And, we have looked at why people call us. Since 2001 we’ve
been looking at this and these are these top five issues come out. And so don’t
get focused on which is the top or which one, because oftentimes these things
occur at the same time.
been looking at this and these are these top five issues come out. And so don’t
get focused on which is the top or which one, because oftentimes these things
occur at the same time.
So anxiety and anxiety disorders, things like panic, worry,
stress, ocd, even stress based conditions, burnout, marriage and family
concerns. Again, that range from premarital counseling to feeling this is
marriage struggles and need for enrichment all the way over to real serious
marriage and family splits. Depression is one of the most common, things that
we see there are different kinds of depression. But by far, depression is one
of those, it’s referred to as the common cold of mental illness and for a reason.
By the way, I do want to just make a note here that these top five things here
aren’t just the top five things that happen inside the Apostolic Christian
Church.
stress, ocd, even stress based conditions, burnout, marriage and family
concerns. Again, that range from premarital counseling to feeling this is
marriage struggles and need for enrichment all the way over to real serious
marriage and family splits. Depression is one of the most common, things that
we see there are different kinds of depression. But by far, depression is one
of those, it’s referred to as the common cold of mental illness and for a reason.
By the way, I do want to just make a note here that these top five things here
aren’t just the top five things that happen inside the Apostolic Christian
Church.
This is human beings. If you go to any counseling center,
depression’s in the top. You go into any counseling center, anxiety is at the
top. We could go into that more, but we need to move on today. Adjustment
issues are things like dealing with stress, dealing with grief, dealing with
transitions.
depression’s in the top. You go into any counseling center, anxiety is at the
top. We could go into that more, but we need to move on today. Adjustment
issues are things like dealing with stress, dealing with grief, dealing with
transitions.
Now not everybody needs to go to a counselor for those.
Everybody does experience those. But sometimes those things get to a place
where people are stuck. So everybody goes through grief. Sometimes people get
to a place where their grief is stuck. Everybody goes through transition.
Sometimes people don’t end up navigating it through.
Everybody does experience those. But sometimes those things get to a place
where people are stuck. So everybody goes through grief. Sometimes people get
to a place where their grief is stuck. Everybody goes through transition.
Sometimes people don’t end up navigating it through.
So they come. Sexuality again, a very broad category. We put it
there, is very broad. It means to us more than just dealing with sexual sin
like pornography. We also are working with people on how to raise up and teach
children about godly healthy sexuality and God’s design all the way through
sexual purity, all the way to navigating this mind feel of a world related to
sexual identity.
there, is very broad. It means to us more than just dealing with sexual sin
like pornography. We also are working with people on how to raise up and teach
children about godly healthy sexuality and God’s design all the way through
sexual purity, all the way to navigating this mind feel of a world related to
sexual identity.
Those kind of things. So if you were to take and you choose any
of those and choose any of the dimensions how does it manifest? I’m going to
pick depression on this one and I’m going to pick, so say that somebody, let’s
say it’s a sister that has moderate clinical depression, okay?
of those and choose any of the dimensions how does it manifest? I’m going to
pick depression on this one and I’m going to pick, so say that somebody, let’s
say it’s a sister that has moderate clinical depression, okay?
Which means that her mood is low. She’s having low energy,
she’s feeling insecure about herself, things of that nature. So biologically,
let’s say here, and it can look by the way, it can look different for different
people. But for this sister, she has very low energy but, also finds that her
appetite is up for sweets.
she’s feeling insecure about herself, things of that nature. So biologically,
let’s say here, and it can look by the way, it can look different for different
people. But for this sister, she has very low energy but, also finds that her
appetite is up for sweets.
So she’s gaining weight. Well, how’s she feel about herself
psychologically? It’s in the tank. And, as her thinking, I’m not a good mom,
I’m not a good this, I’m not a good this. How’s she feel then? As she heads to
church or she’s supposed to go to potluck? She goes, Oh, everybody else has
this together and here I don’t. So it’s isolating. And, who’s right there to
kick us when we’re down, our adversary Satan who is there to accuse. Now here’s
it got an interesting thing. A friend comes along finally learns that this
lady’s dealing with some depression and says, You know what helps me?
psychologically? It’s in the tank. And, as her thinking, I’m not a good mom,
I’m not a good this, I’m not a good this. How’s she feel then? As she heads to
church or she’s supposed to go to potluck? She goes, Oh, everybody else has
this together and here I don’t. So it’s isolating. And, who’s right there to
kick us when we’re down, our adversary Satan who is there to accuse. Now here’s
it got an interesting thing. A friend comes along finally learns that this
lady’s dealing with some depression and says, You know what helps me?
It helps me to rehearse the Scripture. Now that’s a great idea.
The problem is if this sister that’s depressed is having a severe enough
depression that her concentration and memory are kind of impacted her friends
saying, Hey, why don’t you memorize Psalm 1 this week? Which can be a great
thing to do.
The problem is if this sister that’s depressed is having a severe enough
depression that her concentration and memory are kind of impacted her friends
saying, Hey, why don’t you memorize Psalm 1 this week? Which can be a great
thing to do.
Okay, But for this sister right now, memorizing Scripture is going
to be really, really hard and maybe impossible. And so what we have to do is
just be able to understand that if, for this person being able to help them
say, Hey, we’re going to keep it simple. We’re going to the Scripture, but it’s
okay why don’t you read the 23rd Psalm every day this week.
to be really, really hard and maybe impossible. And so what we have to do is
just be able to understand that if, for this person being able to help them
say, Hey, we’re going to keep it simple. We’re going to the Scripture, but it’s
okay why don’t you read the 23rd Psalm every day this week.
Okay? You know what? Sometimes when people are depressed, I
don’t even know what to pray or how to pray. It feels like my prayers are
bouncing off the ceiling. Well, let’s you and I pray together. And it might be
me reminding her of Psalm 1, There you go. Today. Right. Exactly.
don’t even know what to pray or how to pray. It feels like my prayers are
bouncing off the ceiling. Well, let’s you and I pray together. And it might be
me reminding her of Psalm 1, There you go. Today. Right. Exactly.
Texting, a verse. If I can process and remember that, oh,
biologically, because she’s depressed, she’s going to need help recalling and
doing this. Right. And, so I step into that space. Exactly. Another one would
be it’s Wednesday night and it’s time for church.
biologically, because she’s depressed, she’s going to need help recalling and
doing this. Right. And, so I step into that space. Exactly. Another one would
be it’s Wednesday night and it’s time for church.
That friend might say, Hey, why don’t you sit with me tonight
at church. Right? Instead of her going, Oh, I don’t know anyone to sit with, I
don’t know where to go. People I not wanted to hear step into, we stepped in
that relations spot, said, Hey, you sit with me and you stick with me. And that
friend helps to navigate conversations with that person.
at church. Right? Instead of her going, Oh, I don’t know anyone to sit with, I
don’t know where to go. People I not wanted to hear step into, we stepped in
that relations spot, said, Hey, you sit with me and you stick with me. And that
friend helps to navigate conversations with that person.
And I can see then in the psychological too, and speaking
truth, helping her thinking it, because her thinking is probably not doing it.
And, how about this? Let’s go on a walk. Let’s get that body moving, okay. So
we can see that. We don’t have time to go through all those.
truth, helping her thinking it, because her thinking is probably not doing it.
And, how about this? Let’s go on a walk. Let’s get that body moving, okay. So
we can see that. We don’t have time to go through all those.
But we do want to get to some questions because some have
supplied those. Arlan has cued a few up. And so, Ted, let’s look at this
question. Again, Arlan had consolidated some questions that came through, so
how do you untangle the difference between a spiritual health struggle versus a
mental health struggle.
supplied those. Arlan has cued a few up. And so, Ted, let’s look at this
question. Again, Arlan had consolidated some questions that came through, so
how do you untangle the difference between a spiritual health struggle versus a
mental health struggle.
Let just stop there. Spiritual and mental. That’s blurry and
how do we know? So the first thing to remember is the person you’re dealing
with has a spiritual self and mental health self. So the mental self, we’re going
to remember that the person doesn’t have either or they’re going to have a
whole thing.
how do we know? So the first thing to remember is the person you’re dealing
with has a spiritual self and mental health self. So the mental self, we’re going
to remember that the person doesn’t have either or they’re going to have a
whole thing.
One of the first things though, that I would say is it, think
about this. If a person had a struggle with their knee, what they would do is
they’d start out with the simplest solutions first, rest and ice. And then they
might go do some physical therapy and some exercise. Before you go on to have
knee surgery. You know what? Same thing is true with these kind of things. We
start with the simplest things first. We don’t go into deep diving and oh,
there has to be some deep, dark, hidden things here. Let’s start with just,
Hey, where are you at? How you doing? And start out with some simple and very
tangible things.
about this. If a person had a struggle with their knee, what they would do is
they’d start out with the simplest solutions first, rest and ice. And then they
might go do some physical therapy and some exercise. Before you go on to have
knee surgery. You know what? Same thing is true with these kind of things. We
start with the simplest things first. We don’t go into deep diving and oh,
there has to be some deep, dark, hidden things here. Let’s start with just,
Hey, where are you at? How you doing? And start out with some simple and very
tangible things.
Start with basic things like how are you doing with this? Well,
I’m struggling with feeling like God’s hearing my prayers. Well, you know what?
I’ve heard other people say that. I’ve had that happen before. Say what? Why
don’t we talk a little bit.
I’m struggling with feeling like God’s hearing my prayers. Well, you know what?
I’ve heard other people say that. I’ve had that happen before. Say what? Why
don’t we talk a little bit.
Say, Hey, why don’t we practice praying this week? And then
instead of worrying about if it feels like God is hearing. We practice praying
this week believing he hears us, whether or not it feels like he hears it. And,
you know what? Next, why don’t you text me a couple times through the week and
we’ll just check.
instead of worrying about if it feels like God is hearing. We practice praying
this week believing he hears us, whether or not it feels like he hears it. And,
you know what? Next, why don’t you text me a couple times through the week and
we’ll just check.
And so we just start in the shallow end and just a little
shallow end and move on. When I find that people are spinning like there’s no
capacity to take some simple tools and put ’em, you could move on. Or for
example, in the continuum of severity, I wasn’t able to make it to work this
week.
shallow end and move on. When I find that people are spinning like there’s no
capacity to take some simple tools and put ’em, you could move on. Or for
example, in the continuum of severity, I wasn’t able to make it to work this
week.
You know, two days, I had it bad all day. Those are clearly
things. But I would also say to your saying, those are telling signs of a
mental issue. Well, let’s put it this way, remember, because this can start in
one place and end up in another. The fact is somebody can be depressed and need
to deal with some sin in their life. Okay. But we just need to be careful that
we don’t do like Job’s friends and assume at the beginning. Ok. And so I think
that what I would do, is that process of taking a step with them, seeing how
they’re doing. And then like for example, if I talk to somebody and they’re
just telling me, I don’t feel, I’m not worthy to take communion and things
that, but they can’t put their finger on anything other than they feel, I just
feel unworthy.
things. But I would also say to your saying, those are telling signs of a
mental issue. Well, let’s put it this way, remember, because this can start in
one place and end up in another. The fact is somebody can be depressed and need
to deal with some sin in their life. Okay. But we just need to be careful that
we don’t do like Job’s friends and assume at the beginning. Ok. And so I think
that what I would do, is that process of taking a step with them, seeing how
they’re doing. And then like for example, if I talk to somebody and they’re
just telling me, I don’t feel, I’m not worthy to take communion and things
that, but they can’t put their finger on anything other than they feel, I just
feel unworthy.
I feel unworthy. Well, I want to make sure they understand what
the Word says. Let’s, make sure that they know the truth and have an accurate
understanding. But then if they keep with accurate understanding, they keep
spinning and fighting and spinning and fighting and they’re hitting and things
are not moving forward, then I notice that.
the Word says. Let’s, make sure that they know the truth and have an accurate
understanding. But then if they keep with accurate understanding, they keep
spinning and fighting and spinning and fighting and they’re hitting and things
are not moving forward, then I notice that.
I wonder what other factors are playing and I think that’s
helpful. You mentioned they have good understanding, they’ve done the right
things Scripture has called them to do and they’re looping. Yes. Is there
indication that perhaps there’s mental? I would always say this is that it with
the people that we work with we want to do, I would call it a gradual
escalation approach. We don’t, when somebody comes in, even with a problem like
pornography, we can deal with it at a level one and if they do well, that’s
great. But if they’re not overcoming, then we need to go level two. And they’re
not overcoming, we need to go level three.
helpful. You mentioned they have good understanding, they’ve done the right
things Scripture has called them to do and they’re looping. Yes. Is there
indication that perhaps there’s mental? I would always say this is that it with
the people that we work with we want to do, I would call it a gradual
escalation approach. We don’t, when somebody comes in, even with a problem like
pornography, we can deal with it at a level one and if they do well, that’s
great. But if they’re not overcoming, then we need to go level two. And they’re
not overcoming, we need to go level three.
That makes sense. Let’s look at another one here. What guidance
can you provide to differentiate between someone having a temporary rough patch
and that which is more serious and problematic? I think a couple things. When
you look at somebody’s history, and we have to be careful about history because
on one hand we don’t want to pigeonhole people and this kind of say, so,
because Matt was this, he’s always a that.
can you provide to differentiate between someone having a temporary rough patch
and that which is more serious and problematic? I think a couple things. When
you look at somebody’s history, and we have to be careful about history because
on one hand we don’t want to pigeonhole people and this kind of say, so,
because Matt was this, he’s always a that.
But, if somebody has had a relationship history in which it
almost seems like they’re always in a fight with somebody. The relationship
history helps you to piece that together. Another thing that I like to look at
it and say, is this a splinter?
almost seems like they’re always in a fight with somebody. The relationship
history helps you to piece that together. Another thing that I like to look at
it and say, is this a splinter?
That we need to get in there and deal with something, and that
once it’s removed, it’s going to heal. So, for example, if somebody has a,
let’s say I came home and Donna asked me a question and I was really sharp with
her. Okay? And, don’t ask Donna about that, it’s happened, believe me.
once it’s removed, it’s going to heal. So, for example, if somebody has a,
let’s say I came home and Donna asked me a question and I was really sharp with
her. Okay? And, don’t ask Donna about that, it’s happened, believe me.
And then the Holy Spirit goes, Ted, don’t talk to my daughter
that way. The reality is I’m going to feel that pinch until I go back out there
and say, Donna, I’m sorry. And that splinter, that poke is going to be there
until I go move that. Other things are more like a cookie in which they have a
difficult marriage. They’ve been dealing with a thyroid that’s off. They’ve got
financial distress. They’ve got their parents are in the nursing home and
they’ve got things going on there. Spiritually, they’ve been really in a rough
place with individuals in the church.
that way. The reality is I’m going to feel that pinch until I go back out there
and say, Donna, I’m sorry. And that splinter, that poke is going to be there
until I go move that. Other things are more like a cookie in which they have a
difficult marriage. They’ve been dealing with a thyroid that’s off. They’ve got
financial distress. They’ve got their parents are in the nursing home and
they’ve got things going on there. Spiritually, they’ve been really in a rough
place with individuals in the church.
And so what you have then is you’ve got just like a cookie,
you’ve got flour and you’ve got eggs, and you’ve got all these things that have
been swirled up together, compressed, and baked. Now you’ve got a cookie. Okay.
And breaking that down. It’s not as simple as saying, well, the problem in this
is the flour, if we could just pull the flour out.
you’ve got flour and you’ve got eggs, and you’ve got all these things that have
been swirled up together, compressed, and baked. Now you’ve got a cookie. Okay.
And breaking that down. It’s not as simple as saying, well, the problem in this
is the flour, if we could just pull the flour out.
Well, the reality is, we have a cookie, and so we have to deal
with a cookie. And what that generally means is that we have to assume that
it’s going to take some time to unwind. And from that perspective, I would
encourage everyone to not think that there’s just going to be a silver bullet.
We would all love a Silver Bullet.
with a cookie. And what that generally means is that we have to assume that
it’s going to take some time to unwind. And from that perspective, I would
encourage everyone to not think that there’s just going to be a silver bullet.
We would all love a Silver Bullet.
I would love a silver bullet. But just to remember that what
we’re after is a trajectory. We want to move in a trajectory of growth, even if
it’s slow, as opposed to the one thing that’s going to somehow make this cookie
not a cookie. And Arlan, we just have a few minutes left. I wanted to give you
a chance to jump in.
we’re after is a trajectory. We want to move in a trajectory of growth, even if
it’s slow, as opposed to the one thing that’s going to somehow make this cookie
not a cookie. And Arlan, we just have a few minutes left. I wanted to give you
a chance to jump in.
I’ve been watching the questions that have come in a few
questions and the one that I want to make sure we hit is the last one, if you
would flip the slide because they tie together with this one. Sometimes we’re going
to run into an individual who you know they need help.
questions and the one that I want to make sure we hit is the last one, if you
would flip the slide because they tie together with this one. Sometimes we’re going
to run into an individual who you know they need help.
Maybe we had a couple specifics come up in the area of like a
dementia. The beginning of dementia. How do you help someone who doesn’t
realize they have a need for help? Any tips or any advice as to how to start
getting into that conversation? So I want to differentiate two things here. We
could do a whole seminar on this one and probably show it at some point, but I
want to talk about the difference between people who have the capacity to
reason logically and the people that don’t.
dementia. The beginning of dementia. How do you help someone who doesn’t
realize they have a need for help? Any tips or any advice as to how to start
getting into that conversation? So I want to differentiate two things here. We
could do a whole seminar on this one and probably show it at some point, but I
want to talk about the difference between people who have the capacity to
reason logically and the people that don’t.
Okay, so let’s talk about people that have the capacity. And
so, let’s say that I’m working with you, Matt, and, you keep talking to me
about how everybody keeps doing you wrong and I look at you and I think Matt
doesn’t get it, that he’s creating some of his own problems here.
so, let’s say that I’m working with you, Matt, and, you keep talking to me
about how everybody keeps doing you wrong and I look at you and I think Matt
doesn’t get it, that he’s creating some of his own problems here.
So one of the things that I’m going to do, I’m going to make an
observational statement. I’m just going to say something like this. Matt, you
know what I’ve noticed? And, I’m just wondering if you’ve noticed this, I’ve
wondered if you’ve noticed that in these situations when you had these problems
with people in the church, in each time it was a situation in which you had an
idea and the person that you wanted to take your idea didn’t take it, and then
you felt like you were slighted. Do you ever notice that you react strongly if
people don’t? And so what I’m doing with that is you’re wanting to take what you’re
observing and put it right on the table like this.
observational statement. I’m just going to say something like this. Matt, you
know what I’ve noticed? And, I’m just wondering if you’ve noticed this, I’ve
wondered if you’ve noticed that in these situations when you had these problems
with people in the church, in each time it was a situation in which you had an
idea and the person that you wanted to take your idea didn’t take it, and then
you felt like you were slighted. Do you ever notice that you react strongly if
people don’t? And so what I’m doing with that is you’re wanting to take what you’re
observing and put it right on the table like this.
Matt, have you ever noticed that each time you ask me for help?
Each time you come to me and you say, Ted, I need your help. And then when I
give you ideas, you say, yes but, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed that. Or
how this is when in counseling I give homework at the end of every session.
That’s what they’re going to do between, and Matt, I noticed that you keep
coming to counseling and you keep saying you don’t like how life is, but I’m
noticing each time you tell me why in this past week you didn’t have a chance
to work on your homework.
Each time you come to me and you say, Ted, I need your help. And then when I
give you ideas, you say, yes but, I don’t know if you’ve ever noticed that. Or
how this is when in counseling I give homework at the end of every session.
That’s what they’re going to do between, and Matt, I noticed that you keep
coming to counseling and you keep saying you don’t like how life is, but I’m
noticing each time you tell me why in this past week you didn’t have a chance
to work on your homework.
And I’m wondering how you think that counseling’s going to help
if you’re not practicing the application of that outside of here. So my biggest
thing there is practicing taking what you’re observing and putting it on the
table for discussion. For those that don’t have the ability to logically
reason, and for two different types of things for organic things like dementia
and things like that, one of the things that we have to understand is that
sometimes more explanation isn’t necessarily going to equal more progress.
Okay. That’s frustrating. It’s true of people who are manic and have bipolar
disorder.
if you’re not practicing the application of that outside of here. So my biggest
thing there is practicing taking what you’re observing and putting it on the
table for discussion. For those that don’t have the ability to logically
reason, and for two different types of things for organic things like dementia
and things like that, one of the things that we have to understand is that
sometimes more explanation isn’t necessarily going to equal more progress.
Okay. That’s frustrating. It’s true of people who are manic and have bipolar
disorder.
It’s true of people who are, let’s say if they’re severely
depressed and you’re trying to make them feel good about something and they
just can’t. So the point is that we have to understand that to a certain
degree, more communication isn’t always going to be the solution. And in fact,
sometimes we have to figure out what things are in our control and what aren’t
in our control.
depressed and you’re trying to make them feel good about something and they
just can’t. So the point is that we have to understand that to a certain
degree, more communication isn’t always going to be the solution. And in fact,
sometimes we have to figure out what things are in our control and what aren’t
in our control.
And as a family member, I know that there’s 101 different
scenarios we could do differently. Sometimes we have to work on shifting the
environment around the person. Sometimes we have to work on creating safety
layers. And sometimes people say but, Ted, if I do that, they’re going to be
mad. So it’d be like boundaries.
scenarios we could do differently. Sometimes we have to work on shifting the
environment around the person. Sometimes we have to work on creating safety
layers. And sometimes people say but, Ted, if I do that, they’re going to be
mad. So it’d be like boundaries.
And we’ve have to have a boundary here. A safety boundary.
Because we’re not safe. You’re not safe. Yep. And so the reality is people a
lot of times are concerned. Well, they’re going to be, if I say tonight to so
and so that we need to have a caregiver come in or we need to have this
assessment in, they’re going to be mad.
Because we’re not safe. You’re not safe. Yep. And so the reality is people a
lot of times are concerned. Well, they’re going to be, if I say tonight to so
and so that we need to have a caregiver come in or we need to have this
assessment in, they’re going to be mad.
Generally they’re mad already. Okay. Generally, they’re always
mad when things aren’t going their way. And denial plays a big part of that for
some things and for other things, it’s just lack of awareness. It’s probably a
topic region we could spend some more time with because it is a complex one.
mad when things aren’t going their way. And denial plays a big part of that for
some things and for other things, it’s just lack of awareness. It’s probably a
topic region we could spend some more time with because it is a complex one.
I gave a few sound bites. I recognize that now. Well, thanks,
Ted. Arlan, any closing comments? We are at 8:30. Yeah, no, we want to be
mindful of time. Really appreciate everyone joining us. Really appreciate Matt
and Ted, you sharing your experience and your wisdom, with us. We had about 35
churches representative if my memory of the minister book serves me right. I
really appreciate the turnout and the support. This was recorded. It will be
posted to the minister portion of our website. It’s actually going to look a
little bit different in a couple days. We have a new website design being
launched on Wednesday, Lord willing, but this will be in that minister section
along with this handout.
Ted. Arlan, any closing comments? We are at 8:30. Yeah, no, we want to be
mindful of time. Really appreciate everyone joining us. Really appreciate Matt
and Ted, you sharing your experience and your wisdom, with us. We had about 35
churches representative if my memory of the minister book serves me right. I
really appreciate the turnout and the support. This was recorded. It will be
posted to the minister portion of our website. It’s actually going to look a
little bit different in a couple days. We have a new website design being
launched on Wednesday, Lord willing, but this will be in that minister section
along with this handout.
So those who could not make it, we can review it and look at it
and learn from that. And then we will be sending the survey out for those of
you who attended. Always open for your feedback. If there’s ways that we can
improve the technology didn’t serve you well or anything like that, please put
those comments in.
and learn from that. And then we will be sending the survey out for those of
you who attended. Always open for your feedback. If there’s ways that we can
improve the technology didn’t serve you well or anything like that, please put
those comments in.
And, one last point. There’s just a few questions I know that
you submitted in registration, we maybe didn’t get to ’em. If there’s a concern
or something that’s really on your heart, we at ACCFS are always willing to
serve. Feel free to call and set up a triage with one of the counselors.
you submitted in registration, we maybe didn’t get to ’em. If there’s a concern
or something that’s really on your heart, we at ACCFS are always willing to
serve. Feel free to call and set up a triage with one of the counselors.
We’ll be glad to talk through situations, scenarios, and
provide some one on one advice, counsel, and encouragement in that. So really
appreciate the ministry, the service. I’ll turn it back to you, Matt and Ted,
if you have anything else to say. Otherwise, thanks for joining us on this
beautiful evening.
provide some one on one advice, counsel, and encouragement in that. So really
appreciate the ministry, the service. I’ll turn it back to you, Matt and Ted,
if you have anything else to say. Otherwise, thanks for joining us on this
beautiful evening.
Yeah, I don’t. Thanks Ted, Appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks to
each one of you. God’s blessings and have a good night. Good bye.
each one of you. God’s blessings and have a good night. Good bye.
