Supporting your Church through the Marriage Journey Webinar

So welcome again to all of you that have joined. And we are going to talk through this idea of the marriage journey arc, and it’s a little bit of an intentional term. And I forgot to look but I think we’ve been developing resources at ACCFS to support the church in healthy marriages pretty much since its beginning 25 years ago. 

And I think our first premarital counseling offer was published around 20 years ago or so. So, we’ve been spending a lot of time in this space trying to encourage and support churches around healthy marriages and how to get marriages off on the right footing and the right foundation. 

And so, we’re joined with Kaleb Beyer who is our marriage and family therapist and James Fehr, who is the elder at Tremont and one of our board elders. And really tonight our objective is threefold. We want to just highlight briefly the importance of setting marriages off on the right foot, getting that right foundation. 

And how important it is for overall church health and family health and so many other things. We want to talk about what we have started to call this marriage journey arc and different phases within it as we broaden our thinking about what it takes to enter into marriage and to approach that whole process. 

And then we want to identify resources throughout that can support important teaching points in different ways that we as church leaders can encourage the church and support the church for this. So, with that in mind James, I really want to start with you and just think through a little bit, why is this an important topic for us to consider? Why do we need to think about setting up the right foundation for marriages within the church? What have you seen or thoughts you have to share from your experience in this area?  

Yeah, so that’s a great question, Brother Arlan. I guess for me, as I think about my years whether as an ordained deacon or elder, we have the privilege really to interact with a lot of couples here in Tremont as they prepare and they think about marriages. 

So, we have that privilege, but we also recognize that so often when we have a situation where the marriage is unhealthy, and if we can just go back and we can see the foundation of that whether it was prior to the proposal, whether it was during the proposal if there wasn’t a good understanding and appreciation for what that was going to look like. Maybe in some cases it really was about relationships that existed long before they were even thinking about marriage that were hard. And if we can address some of those things, often we can actually prevent some of those hard things. 

And we know that if we can figure out how to prevent, we’re not having to think about the consequences. Sure. And so, I just really feel it’s important to be able to stretch prior to proposal, preparing for sending a proposal, preparing for receiving a proposal, anything that we can do there to create a good foundation. 

There’s tremendous benefit for that into the marriage. And you really speak of that idea of preventing versus then responding or reacting and trying to get a cure. I love that imagery. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure, whatever that saying is. Kaleb, from your seat as a marriage and family therapist, as a deacon there in Washington, and just as a minister engaging with young couples, what do you notice about marriages, their health, the importance of that as a foundational piece of many other aspects, your thought? 

Yeah, so I guess what comes to mind Arlan is we talk quite a bit about marriage, partly because as we think about our relationship, meaning the church relationship with Christ, and so what marriage represents and reflects, I think we talk about it, we teach it, whether it’s directly or indirectly. 

And you know, here, as it says in the slide, healthy marriages formed the foundation for family and the church. And it’s one thing to share, for example, with my kids, the importance of love. But it’s another thing when they see that lived out and modeled in a relationship. And I think our heart and our desire is not just to have marriages, but healthy marriages that reflect the love and the forgiveness of what we’re called into. None of us would say we’re perfect there, but certainly that then is a healthy representation for those growing up in the church to be able to see what it is and to taste it, so to speak, and not just hear about it. Yeah. So, modeling, that example that takes place, is so critical. 

And if you just look at that graphic. We’ve used this graphic in different settings that’s on the screen there. And it’s not a complete graphic. There are other aspects, obviously to a healthy church and to healthy marriages and so on and so forth. But if you just think about it and the fact that healthy individuals or a healthy self creates healthy marriages, which create a healthy church, and then create a healthy mission or representation of the gospel, like you just said, Kaleb. And sometimes, I think we want to jump to the top and say, how do we get a healthy mission or a healthy church or whatnot? 

Sometimes I think it’s healthy to realize that’s made up of the components of a healthy marriage, which is made up of many other things too. And so, I think that’s the opportunity to focus on that foundational aspect of that. So, I’ve used that term marriage journey arc. Again, it’s a term we’ve coined and have started to use a little bit more regularly. But there are a couple different aspects to that and this is number one, this is a journey. It’s not a one point in time decision. It’s something that has roots that begins with vision, expectation, approach, and all those kinds of things. And then it’s going to continue on even past the engagement in the early marriage years to set a foundation for later years of marriage and just an ongoing trajectory. So, one of the thoughts there is just to stretch that out, Kaleb. Why do we want to stretch out this thought of marriage decision making, of marriage journey, of how do you approach marriage?  

Why don’t you broaden that perspective a little bit, whether it’s some of your thoughts as you approach this. Yeah. So, one of the things that I think about just as we look at those three different phases or points on that arc of considering marriage engagement in early years? It’s easy, I think, for us, and there is actually some health in this. When we think about considering marriage for example, it’s easy to quickly go to who this individual’s getting married to. Even in the engagement the thought of moving toward the wedding and the wedding details and all of those things are aspects of this, but I think like you’re saying, when we back out and look at it as a journey, it’s about how this is happening and how we’re moving through time.  

It’s similar, I think, for those of us who have kids and how they come into our family as immature, unable emotionally, spiritually, relationally and we expect them to mature. Maybe this is a poor example, but follow me here, they certainly go through phases in that journey of being an infant to being a toddler to childhood. But I think each stage builds on the other, but it also helps us to see what the point of all of this is. 

And I would even say it’s not marriage per se, but it is healthy individuals in Christ that we’re growing and maturing as members one of another. And marriage just happens to be for some within the church, that is part of the conduit through which that happens. I really appreciate that thought. 

On the screen we call it a discipleship path, but it is a really critical aspect or can be a critical aspect of discipleship growth within an individual or individual’s life as they mature and grow in that. James, thoughts as you think about this whole idea of a journey and of different stages or different phases and broadening that out. 

How do we help individuals set up for success? I guess you could put it that way. Within marriage, what have you seen and at a high level. Yeah. So, it’s not been real long since I’ve seen this arc, and I know that we’ve even condensed it a little bit recently and just made it three pieces as we show this arc. 

But I love the concept of stretching it and trying to make it before and after. Because it’s a continuation as we know, but the sooner that we can start thinking about kind of this journey, I like the fact that we really need to help individuals be in a relationship with God that they need to be able to recognize whether this is a want or a desire. There’s nothing wrong with that, but then how do they navigate that space of stepping into marriage? Do they have a relationship that’s strong enough that they can understand and hear God speaking into this and the direction that they should go? And then also even looking at and encouraging them to think about the relationships they have. If it’s a brother, with other brothers or a sister with other sisters, with family, parents, siblings, what are those relationships like? 

Because if you can’t have those, this is that stretch we discussed earlier on as they think about or consider marriage. It’s not like just because now it’s your spouse that those relationship concerns are just all of a sudden gone and it’s just going to miraculously be easy to make a good relationship. So, even focusing on some of that earlier is very, very healthy and helpful. I really appreciate that. And just this whole idea, as you can see on the screen, again, is about setting that healthy vision, healthy direction for what marriage is and what it is not. 

It’s about healthy expectations and then just that healthy foundation. All of those are critical pieces to try to set up the marriage relationship in the way that’s best going to reflect the gospel. I mean, that’s really what we’re striving for. That’s what God calls us to, that high calling. 

What I’d like to do is walk through with you each of these three phases and we’ll just share a few thoughts on each one, some ideas about what this is, and then a few teachings around each one and you can start to see that contrast between each and what could be helpful in it. 

And so, we’ll start with this considering marriage phase. And this is the idea that at some point, as children grow into young adults in a lot of lives, you’re going to have this place where marriage becomes a consideration, right? There are going to be active conversations about marriage. 

Ideally, as you’ll see, we talk about seeking counsel with mentors and parents and church leaders. But they’re thinking about what this is. It’s the considering marriage phase. Kaleb, what are key aspects or key things that we want to be thinking about with individuals during this time? 

Why do we pull this out and really emphasize this phase in the marriage journey arc? So, I think as James already alluded to, there are several pieces as we think about individuals who are beginning to think about marriage, which is a deeply intimate relationship. 

And so, to be able to have the opportunity to walk alongside individuals who are starting to think about that and step into it is we don’t have to wait until they’re in a marriage relationship to begin to understand what the relationships in their lives now are like and how they’re interacting and walking through difficult situations. 

But then I think it’s also helpful to understand how they’re thinking about marriage. What is their picture of marriage and even thinking about, maybe this is a funny question, but why marriage? Why not singleness? Singleness is an option. And so, I think it provides an opportunity for discipleship, again, around an individual who is beginning to think and consider this step in both their health and their spiritual walk, but also their recognition and understanding of the marriage relationship and what it involves. 

Yeah. So, if you look at those sub-bullets there, just to emphasize what you said. You pull out, there’s an introspective piece where we’re examining ourselves and thinking about who we are and where we are at in our walk with Christ and our level of health. 

Then there’s this whole understanding piece of how do we think about marriage? What is marriage to us and how do we even begin to approach it? And all throughout, hopefully that last bullet, there is a level of seeking to learn and to grow and to have counsel. You know, it’s maybe a silly example, but our oldest daughter is 15. She has her driver’s permit. She’s getting ready to learn to drive and the regulations in Illinois are something like 50 hours of sitting with your parents in the car, learning how to drive and navigate different conditions and nighttime versus daytime, city versus highway, all those kinds of things. 

And we don’t think twice about doing that for something like driving a car. But how much time do we spend with our young people in church, our own kids and others in the single group or whatnot, helping them think about their health and what it could mean to approach marriage. 

Continuing with this considering marriage phase, there’s a series of teachings we call out for each of these. So, you can see some of them on the screen in front of you. Just ideas about healthy identity and healthy female male interactions and all of those kinds of things. Kaleb, again, I’m going to stick with you for just a moment here. What have you seen as you notice couples that maybe enter in with a level of proper preparation before marriage, so to speak, or maybe couples that you’ve seen that have entered in without a healthy or as proper of a preparation before marriage, if I could put it that way. How have you seen that play out over time? 

Yeah, so going back to the triangle and thinking about healthy, self-impacting marriage relationships and with marriage being one of the most intimate relationships that we have, it exposes our vulnerabilities in a way that I think surprises us as we step into marriage. We have certain expectations, but it brings out in us things that we don’t always like. 

And so, there is a level of winning. There are individuals who are able to navigate conflict, not perfectly, but to be able to navigate in a way of a level of maturity that does affect the way they communicate and resolve conflict when it comes to marriage, which is, again, more vulnerable than a brother to brother relationship or maybe some of the other relationships that they would have in their lives prior to marriage. And so, it definitely has a direct impact on the marriage relationship. Yeah. Brother James, other thoughts in this area? Just this whole idea of encouraging, teaching, and supporting young people as they get ready to marry to even consider marriage and how important that is. 

So, I’m actually thinking here as we’re visiting the audience that we have. So, maybe if you’re a minister here, you’re thinking so far, a lot of this really falls on the elder. I just want to encourage each of you brothers to see that there are a lot of ways that as a minister you can really help with this. 

Obviously, each of our churches is different, but you can sense when there’s a brother or a sister that’s in that phase of just kind of ready for the next stage. And I just think it’s important that you have some discussions around just the practical matters. If it’s a brother, I think it’s good to just have real practical conversations with them. 

It definitely doesn’t have to be intimate or personal, that’s a better use of words. Personal. You don’t have to make it personal. You can actually keep it pretty broad, but I think it’s important to talk to them about, what does marriage mean to them? 

And just what have you thought about spiritual leadership? And just some of those questions, whether it’s at the dinner table and at church, there’s just a lot of ways that you can actually interact with a brother and or sister. As far as minister’s wives, there are practical ways that we can have these dialogues just to help them start to process and think through what that looks like. 

Also, if you know of individuals who are in college, ask them what that’s like to be living with a group of young men. And we learn about ourselves, don’t we? In those settings, James, as roommates, we can be great teachers in some ways, or revealers of ourselves, I should put it that way. 

Yeah. So, I think those are all good ways that we can interact as ministers and ministers’ wives. If we have a minute yet here, Arlan, is one of the questions that probably would be on my mind as an elder is, so how do we navigate this space of making sure that if a brother is struggling or a sister is struggling with just overcoming some bad habits. How do we step into that? And Kaleb, do you have any thoughts on that or what advice would be there? Yeah, it’s a good question and it’s a question that James, we often, I think, or maybe I should speak for myself, I want to be clearer than it oftentimes is. 

Meaning like, okay, if we had a certain timeframe when this individual was no longer struggling per se, and put a certain number of months, years on that which I don’t think necessarily is wrong. I think it’s healthy to have some of that, but it’s also looking at when we’re talking about health, one of the things that we often reference in individuals who are recovering are three pieces. So, we call it radical accountability. So, part of these is not just the struggle itself and whether or not they are overcoming, but what kind of system and support is around them and how are they engaging it? So radical accountability, radical honesty and transparency, and then radical humility and the spirit at which they’re walking through it is of importance as we’re considering the idea of moving to marriage and not just whether or not they’ve slipped in the last six months, which is important. I’m not minimizing that, but I think sometimes we can fixate on that piece. And miss if there is a system that needs to be in place and how is this individual engaging that system in the process? 

I really appreciate how you approach that, Kaleb, because it speaks this whole idea of a level of health in the sense of how they are growing in movement towards health. Right. What’s their trajectory? What’s their direction? Which is going to set the stage ongoing. How do you approach ongoing struggles that you can take care of one. But then something else pops up at another time. And so, the system that’s in place or the approach is really important. And I think the other thing that this highlights is just how is an individual living in community in the sense of do they have that openness of counsel seeking and engagement with others. 

Or are they a little bit of a lone ranger? And that’s going to bring its own set of potential issues down the road if that is their default style. James, I really appreciate you bringing that up. It’s one of those down towards the bottom when we talk about factors that could lead towards marital struggles. 

Again, if there’s a problem with overcoming or something along those lines, it’s not going to just go away once we go to the next step and that’s part of the whole opportunity here is to stretch this out and to be thinking about it. I want to highlight one more before we move on. Coping with uncertainty or unmet expectations. So, we often think about this as that arc continuing and going from thinking about marriage to a yes and then moving on to marriage. But many times, it doesn’t quite go that way. Or there is a level of unmet expectations or redirection, or a no is given, or a relationship is broken or whatnot. 

Navigating that and having enough relationships with individuals and individuals being cradled with enough relationships around them to walk through those often somewhat private and maybe embarrassing situations at times is really critical. Because it sets your stage for how you deal with disappointment in life, which is a very foundational skill setting. 

Any other thoughts on any of these that we want to bring up, but just these teachings here as we think about this idea of considering marriage first part. Yeah, so I would speak to how for myself, we moved to Tremont 20 some years ago, and there were a number of situations that I wouldn’t even be aware of. 

But it is really helpful for me. I have a couple of brothers and a couple of sisters who are now healthy, married and have 20 plus years of marriage, and they’ve shared with me that they are more than willing to help an individual that receives a no or gives a no. Those are great individuals to be aware of because there’s going to be that situation where somebody gets a no or a disappointment or even has to extend a no, that can be just as hard as the brother receiving the no. So, I just really appreciate that. So, if you’re a minister and you’ve had that experience, and you’re willing, I would use you. As an elder, we can’t just assume that those people are willing to meet. 

But if we know that there’s someone that’s willing, then we can actually offer that to the individual that just received that hard news, and we can connect them. That’s been very, very helpful for me. And there are a couple of brothers who have just really been beneficial to have in our congregation and then that they’re able to connect and they can do that in a very private way and it’s just because they know what it feels like and the last thing you want is anyone to know about it. So, that’s one thing that’s been very healthy and helpful. Yeah. Well, and I love what you’ve shared now a couple of times, Brother James. Just this idea of stretching, utilizing the body and the different skills within the body to support this process. It’s a community process and I think we can sometimes limit the opportunity of discipleship through the community, through the body, in a very real and practical way during this time. 

Let’s go on to the next phase and just spend a little bit of time here. So, this is the engagement phase. Okay? So, next, assuming that an individual is moving forward towards a wedding. There’s been a public engagement announcement of some type. And then here you see some different aspects of this space. You’re going to have a growing relationship where people are growing in their intimacy with each other and their knowledge of each other. 

You want to create an environment for an honorable engagement. So, the right level of accountability and really challenging a new newly engaged couple to think about what they want to be. What do they want to reflect on their engagement when it’s all done? Because again, probably, I’m guessing, I don’t know, maybe you brothers have seen this, where during this phase there can be a lot of emotions, right? 

And that infatuation can take off and we need to be able to speak into that and in a long-range view. And then also dealing with some issues that maybe arise proactively or reactively. Again, with this thought, what are some things Kaleb, that you have seen in this engagement phase? And James too, feel free to chime in. Like, how do we think about this phase in a very proactive and appropriate way?  

Yeah, so this is a phase like the other phases are involved change, and I think about that. So relationally, as you referenced, they’re growing together relationally, but if you think about it also the environment around them. So, the single group that they were involved in, but also families and navigating the leaving and cleaving is also happening. And so, I think relationally, there is a lot happening within this process of engagement that again, I think is easy to get lost. Even as a church, we announce engagement and then we have this wedding date. What happens in between? Yeah. Yes. What happens in between? And I think it’s actually a fairly busy time for engaged couples with a lot happening. 

And often when I’m engaging premarital couples in this space, it’s like we need to prioritize some time for relationship and working through things, and not just every time you get together. You got the invitations, all these things related to the wedding details. Yeah, because the wedding is an important thing, and you can always say we’re preparing for a marriage, not preparing for a wedding day. And yet it’s very easy for that wedding day and the details to rise up and they are important so that you want to take care of them. 

And it’s a wonderful opportunity to be a God honoring Christ-centered ceremony. But you can also easily, like I said, overemphasize that, right? So, you don’t want to minimize it, you don’t winna overemphasize it, but it’s there and you need to have some counsel and some instruction and some encouragement around it. Brother James, how do you handle this? And as you go to the next slide deck here, there’s a thousand topics you could talk about. Yeah, and the bandwidth is just probably not there because the reality is there’s not that much time and there’s a lot of other things on their minds and so on and so forth. 

So how have you learned to approach engagement counseling or the premarital counseling aspect of it? So, I don’t know who’s all on here, so I feel a little bit like the junior high student trying to teach a high school senior, but I think about what’s been very beneficial for me is to create a system. And I really appreciate what we have today. We’ve really got some good tools and the little pamphlet that we recently received as elders, and if you’re a minister ask your elder about it. 

But it’s a great pamphlet. It’s called So Now You Are Engaged and it’s just a great tool to hand the couple and it talks into some of the boundaries. It’s just very simple and you can walk through it relatively easily. And then it sets up a direction toward pre-marriage counseling. 

And so that’s a very healthy thing to step into. But right inside the back cover are three pieces that I really think are very beneficial. There’s a list of questions and a QR code. You scan the QR code, and it will take you to questions that couples can ask each other that will have an impact on their future marriage. And so, I just really think that’s good. It also helps them navigate through the engagement and really helps them connect. They can use those questions as they’re driving or as they’re sitting down to dinner together or on a road trip, however it’s just really beneficial. 

So, I like that. There’s also a QR code for parents, and if your fourth or fifth child is getting married, you’re probably used to it, but if it’s your first child, this is as much of a change for the parents as it is for the child. So, I really have found it is so beneficial to walk through that. 

And so, there’s just this engagement period for parents and how to learn to adjust to that. So, I like that. And then there’s a QR code about the Prepare and Enrich assessment. I have really come to appreciate this tool. I remember the first time I used it; I was very intimidated. And you just learn over time. Brother Kaleb has been very helpful to me. He actually gives you quite a few notes that you can use when you get it back. I’m going to let Kaleb walk through what that is, but I have really come to appreciate the assessment, and I use that. 

You have to navigate when the right time is to have them do it. If it’s a shorter engagement, it can kind of get a little bit cramped up, but you can actually go over the assessment after they’re married. But I really found that those three things, getting the parents to think about it, having the couples use the questions, and then the Prepare and Enrich, all of that is in QR codes in this pamphlet, and I don’t know if you can see this, but it’s just a small pamphlet and they come from ACCFS. I don’t even know what those cost. They have a little bit of a cost to them, but those are very beneficial, and I just really appreciate those.  

So yeah, I appreciate you sharing that, James. And at the end here, after a couple slides, I’ll show you online where you can access those on our website. But it was created for that very purpose to try to give some simple resources to an engaged couple right at the beginning and give a tool to church leadership as they would engage with an engaged couple. 

To your point, James, Kaleb, can you give us a synopsis of this tool, the Prepare assessment and why it’s a good tool for an engaged couple to consider. So, it is an assessment that the two fill out and. If you think about it, they are responding to questions and so the results are affected by how they respond. Then as helpers, ministers, elders, deacons, we sit down with this couple and review something that they have responded to so they’re a part of this. And then I think it gives healthy talking points. It is a fairly in-depth assessment and so sometimes we don’t have time to go through all of it. 

But even hitting at a high level, what are areas that we can call out as strengths in this couple that they really can affirm and bless that, but also ongoing growth areas. And it gives us an opportunity to spend time and to really talk about those things and areas to consider resources whatever that might be. 

I agree. It’s a really helpful tool and it looks at red flags. They complete some information that then we could follow up on if we need to check in on some things. Yeah. But I want to just emphasize that I really appreciate both of what you shared there, because what you’re doing is you’re using an assessment tool to try to take a couple and identify some starting points of conversation or encouragement or instruction as they get ready for marriage. 

James, I know you’ve shared with me before, there’s no way you can cover everything that you’d like to cover before the wedding day. In fact, that’s not even probably the right goal. The right goal is to create a climate and an attitude of growth and learning as a couple. Share a few key areas or key points but then try to set them on a trajectory so that growth will continue even after the wedding day. You sometimes use other couples or other ministry couples within Tremont to help you with that. Correct. Is that the plan you put in place? 

Yep, that is correct. And actually, the majority of that counseling is done after they’re married. So, there are eight additional couples that help Brenda and I, and they each have one of the growing stronger marriages modules. They have up to the first year and that’s been very helpful. When my son got married, he said, dad, I hate to disappoint you, but there is no way we can absorb all the stuff you’re trying to cram into our heads and figure out what it means to be married. 

So, we recognized that it was just too much prior to marriage. Our children can be great teachers, can’t they? Right. But that’s beautiful counsel to say, don’t try to do it all. But set the expectation and the trajectory so that the growth can be ongoing. And I think that’s a beautiful opportunity here. 

And so, there are a few teachings that we highlight on this slide. And again, there’s more that can be covered, but I think what I heard both of you say is it is worth taking some time to think about how you’re going to approach this time in a couple’s life and develop that plan. And I would even say develop convictions around that plan of this needs to be covered, or this is the first step, or this is a great resource that we need to engage them with and be willing to invest in because we’re setting that stage for the next phase, which is the early years of marriage where they’re in their first few years of marriage, you’re building those skills.  

Couples start to learn what it’s really like to have that 24/7 roommate who doesn’t go away. And what life is like in the thick and the thin, the better and worse, like the vow says. But if you can set those healthy skills practices. A deepening desire to grow that will become an ongoing, hopefully healthy trajectory for marriage. Kaleb, how do you encourage an attitude of growth as you think about couples you’ve worked with? 

And maybe this is just a hard thing to do, right? Either you’ve got it or you don’t. But you know, in an ideal world, how do you encourage an attitude of growth within a newly married couple or a recent couple.  

Sometimes couples seem to really want to dig in and to learn all they can and devour resources and others, maybe not so much, but I think going back to the community within the church. I think one thing that’s healthy is that we have pictures of marriages that have been for 50 years or 45 years or 40 years, whatever, that timeframe is something we want to lean into. 

And we often encourage mentor couples. So, whether that’s an official mentoring role or just generally thinking about as ministers, engaging young couples to have them begin to think outside of the phase that they’re in, because it’s so easy. So, you think about early marriage, there’s a lot of generally exciting things happening, thinking about family and careers and homes and, it is generally a special time. It can be a challenging time, but I think one of the things that really helps is seeing what I want. What am I moving towards out here? And we encourage couples to choose their ruts wisely, meaning begin to establish healthy patterns early in the relationship that then will be formative. 

And I think we would say with all relationships, we don’t stumble upon healthy, good relationships. It’s something that we invest in. And so, teaching is involved in that too. Yeah. And so, you can highlight some of those teachings. We have them on the slide here. So the idea of friendship and conflict management and repair and connection and how those fit together. 

What happens when you have your first fight? What are the patterns that you fall into or how have you had that modeled for you and why? Where do you see that modeling play out in your life? And if you want to change the trajectory, how do you do that? Yeah. And James, I think I’ve seen this in other churches as well.  

So, you create the intentional environment of other couples investing in newly married couples within the church as a discipleship opportunity around certain themes and topics and ideas. We do. And Brenda and I have asked these couples to help with this. We’ve gone to those who are in that 60 to 75 age. As long as they’re willing, we’ll let the upper end be as old as they want. 

But we think about that 60 and up, and then we think of the 40 to 60 age group, and then the 40 and below. So, we kind of mix up the couples so they’re getting a reflection from all different age groups and different situations. So, if you have brothers bringing sisters into our Tremont congregation, it allows them to connect with eight couples that they might not have known. So, it gives you that as well. So, that’s been healthy and helpful. We’ve transitioned now to a little bit younger group, so we continue to try to keep those different age groups, which has been healthy and helpful. 

I want to point out this past impact on marriage. I think at some stage, it doesn’t have to be after they’re married, but some point along the way, especially if you’re familiar with some past experiences of their marriages that will have an impact on this marriage, I think it’s really important that you talk about it with the two of them. 

If you are aware of a situation, whether it’s hard in their parents’ marriage or abuse or anything that would actually impact them, I think it’s critical that you talk about it early on in the engagement. And then after they’re early married, especially if you’re aware of those things, be very in tune to that and allow the couple to be able to share whether that’s having an impact on their marriage, because the sooner you know that’s a problem or creating some real struggle, they need some additional counsel. Maybe you have a couple in your church that’s able to step into those who have experience or whatever. It doesn’t have to mean that they all of a sudden need to go to ACCFS or professional help. You just need to recognize that it is not going to get better over time. They will spin out in that area. Just be in tune to that. And don’t just assume they’re going to talk to you about it. You have to be a little bit on top of it and, and again, the Spirit will guide you in that. But I think the earlier you can recognize that it’s becoming a problem, and you step into that, it’s very helpful. 

Yeah, I really appreciate that. And so that spirit of proactivity of preventative encouragement has continued on even into early marriage. Kaleb, anything else to share in this early years of marriage stage setting that you want to talk about? Yeah. One of the thoughts that came to mind as James was sharing is I do think prevention is healthy. And that’s true. And there are also things that show up after they’re married that were unexpected and there’s no way we could have predicted or planned for them. As we walk alongside couples that are in this kind of marriage journey arc, I think it’s healthy for those of us who have marriages to appropriately share vulnerability.  

Now I think we have to work with our wives on what is appropriate, but I think there is a level of appropriate vulnerability that paves the way for couples who later have struggles. It opens the opportunity to share with them if that comes up down the road. 

Because sometimes I think couples wonder if this is normal. And just to be able to have a pathway where there have been some vulnerable conversations back here of like, yeah, we had some struggles, and it doesn’t have to be major. But early on in a relationship it is an important process of discipling and walking alongside couples in this space.  

I know one of the questions we like to ask any couple that we work primarily with is, if you have problems in the future, if you have questions in the future, who is somebody that you can turn to or a couple. Kind of force them to identify a little bit who some of those go-to people are, so they don’t have to think about it in the moment. I really appreciate you sharing that, Kaleb. And just one last point before we move on to resources and questions. Frankly, if you have questions, be thinking about those or chatting those in. 

There are churches of all shapes and sizes on this call and who’ll be listening to this later, perhaps, and I think you know what works in Tremont or what works in Washington or works in Gridley might not work in the church you’re in, but can you think about a plan or figure out a way to intentionally approach supporting young people as they approach marriage all the way into these early years of marriage? 

What is going to work in your context and what resources do you have at your disposal? Again, I think James, your counsel of thinking about it and developing a plan is really wise. To that end, just a few resources I’ll emphasize, and I’m going to pop out of PowerPoint and go to our website directly. 

But if you just look at these three different phases that we talked about tonight, and there are other phases in this arc. There’s middle marriage and later marriage and resource development ongoing at ACCFS in these areas. For the considering marriage phase, we are working on consolidating some of our resources that you can find on our website. 

Right now, if you look up marriage decision making, you will find a series of resources to help individuals with all those things we talked about. But we’re trying to consolidate that into an easier to use, more readily accessible booklet. And it should be ready in the upcoming months. 

The Now You Are Engaged booklet that James talked about is a resource which I’ll show you on the website, but it’s something to give individuals when they are freshly engaged and then the Growing a Strong Marriage booklet is a resource that has just gone through a fairly hefty revision of content in an attempt to try to bring things together. 

Elders on the call might remember an elder premarital guide called a threefold cord, and there was good instruction and teaching within that. And then there was the Growing a Strong Marriage booklet. We’ve brought those together and created a leader’s portion at the back end of this booklet. 

So, everything is more easily accessible and available. And so let me just show where all those are available on our website or at our office. If you just pop up the ACCFS website and type in growing a strong marriage, or you can get to it through our minister community as well. 

But you will find this leader’s guide and all of the resources are here. But you can also find an online version of the book and can walk through all the different aspects of the book, each with QR codes, as James said. You can just point your camera at those things on your phone and you can pop up resources directly on your phone or get to the handouts or if you’re on a PDF browser they’re just direct links. 

And I will just share one thing because there’s an overwhelming amount of information. And there’s an overwhelming number of directions you can go. But we did try to create a Guide to Premarital Counseling. It’s on page 233 of the book and we tried to create a short quick reference guide to start thinking about premarital counseling if you’ve never thought about it. 

And some of you have your plans and your processes in place, and that’s wonderful. That’s great. But here is a series of key points or things to consider even a potential premarital counseling schedule for you to consider along with these QR codes. This one, for example, takes you right to that So Now You’re Engaged booklet. And you can see those resources at the end that James referenced. Okay, so again, you find these in that growing a strong marriage aspect of our website. The Prepare Enrich page that Kaleb talked about you can find down here further with an overview and how to approach that. 

So, there’s a series of resources available to support you in that. Let me ask this question, and again, if you have questions, please chat them in and Matt, be willing to please interrupt at any point if you see any questions pop up in the chat feature. But Kaleb, I’ll ask you this question. What difference do you see this make as you think about this whole idea of approaching marriage with a thought of support and help and encouragement. What difference have you seen this make in couples that maybe you’ve worked with or had to navigate through some things with?  

Yeah. So, I think one of the things was some research that early on in my study of marriage and family therapy, said that couples seek counseling six years after they actually begin to start seeing issues. Okay, so by the time, six years later, if you think about it, when engaged or when couples step out, there are already patterns and things in place versus individuals stepping into counseling right away. 

And I think for all of us, we would tend to say, oh, things aren’t that bad. And you know, we kind of stay in that space and one of the things that we see early on when couples are engaging in this process, it doesn’t eliminate issues, but it does provide a framework and a foundation through which concerns and issues can be worked through in a healthy way, and I think a healthy view of marriage. 

I don’t know about you James, but I find myself with engaged couples also and sometimes in early engagement we have unrealistic expectations for what marriage is and what it means to be a husband or a father.  

And again, I think being able to speak into some of these things and have some of those conversations early on sets a path where when struggles come up then we can begin to navigate that in a much healthier way. So, it’s a beautiful foundation setting, like we’ve emphasized multiple times tonight. 

Yeah. Kaleb, can you say a little bit more about what some of the expectation errors are that would maybe be helpful? Yeah. So, some of the unhealthy or unmet or unrealistic expectations are thinking about once we get married, for example, all the areas that I struggle with will somehow go away. 

Right. Or another one that sometimes comes up is that all good things will get better when I get married. Or this thought that if we just spent more time together, things would get better. And sometimes it’s actually healthy to be able to have some appropriate space in coming back together. 

So, there are many of those, but I think what it does is it places pressure on the marriage relationship to sustain and provide something I don’t think God intended it to provide. We’re looking for the relationship to provide something that wasn’t intended. And so, if we can again, begin to step into those, I think it can be helpful. 

Great question. If there are other questions, feel free to unmute and ask questions or again, share them in the chat feature. As we wait for that to happen, James, I would just value any thoughts from your perspective or any encouragement to the audience here about the importance of things you’ve learned as you’ve engaged in this as an elder, a deacon, and a church leader. 

Any thoughts you’d like to share here in closing? Yeah, my strong encouragement for our ministers on this call or any minister that will listen later who has a gift in this area, this is very beneficial to your elder. If this is an area that you feel called to or have a desire to help in, or if you’re aware of somebody in your church that could help in this area. This is bigger than the elder. And we know that if we can have healthy marriages, we will have a healthier church. I go back to that original triangle. Obviously, we have to start with ourselves first, but if our marriages and our families are solid, that will just have a natural flow into our churches, and it’ll just help us be discipling one another and growing into that. 

So, I just think if you’re expecting your elder to do this, especially in our larger churches if you are interested or able to help in this, this can become a very big opportunity. It’s not negative. I love doing these pre-marriage evenings. I get to know the couples. But it’s a huge opportunity for our church to really help together. So that would be my main encouragement. I really appreciate the efforts of Brothers Arlan, Kaleb, Ted, Sister Kathy, all who have contributed, and I don’t want to miss anyone, but all the effort that has gone into the new resources, they’re very beneficial.