Family Dynamics Podcast Episodes

I think it’s healthy for us to understand ourselves and understand how the family system, my own family system, my family of origin, what imprint it’s left on me. Welcome friends to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m Matt Kaufman. Kaleb Beyer’s in the studio with me today. 

Welcome Kaleb. Thanks, Matt. It’s good to be with you. The topic, Kaleb, is family dynamics. I think that’s going to need a little bit of definition. Sure. What does that mean? Yeah. There are many systems in the world today. God’s created creation to be a system. He’s created our bodies to be a system. The body of Christ is a system. 

And so, when we talk about family dynamics, one of the things is that the family is a system unit, not a system in the sense of a sequence. Get with the system. Oh, sure. Right. But we’re talking about a system that gives and takes, is dynamic and alive where one component impacts another component. 

Is that right? That’s what we mean by the dynamic system. There are many parts in motion, one whole. Yes. And with that family system or family dynamic, what we’re saying is that mom and dad affect the kids. And kids affect mom and dad, there’s an interplay and interaction. We are influenced, aren’t we? I can tell you are a firstborn, or I can tell you came from a large family or a small family, right? 

Those would all be a part of the residual influence you’re talking about with family dynamics. Yes, it’s part of it. I think it’s healthy for us to understand ourselves and understand how the family system, my own family, my family of origin, what imprint it’s left on me and how it’s influenced me in ways that I maybe grasp and in ways I don’t fully grasp until, for me, I’m in contact with a spouse who had a different one. 

Right. Both are different and similar. It really gives you wisdom, doesn’t it? Yeah. If wisdom is the sum total of experiences to understand that stream of experiences coming into your life and how that might be different coming into your spouse’s life. Yeah. We’ve got two systems coming together. 

Yeah. Which can really add some complexity. Absolutely, and opportunity like you mentioned earlier. I like the term influence, to begin to influence me and my relationship and just open myself up to other alternatives, to other ways of seeing things. Okay, so you’ve just made a huge disclaimer by that, Kaleb, and that would be this, that we all possibly have blind spots. 

Are you calling me out for having blind spots, Kaleb? Matt, you’re the only one who doesn’t. I think that’s another axiom. Everybody else has blind spots except for yourself. But anyway, your point is very well taken. We have blind spots. We have those areas that we don’t see clearly, or we don’t even know that we don’t see them. 

Yeah, absolutely. And I think until we come in with something that’s different from the way I see or think, or until there is tension and diversity then I’m not faced with some of those faces. You know, somebody made this point to me, and I think it’s really profound, but then again, I’m pretty simple and it’s this that you notice what you always notice, and you will continue to notice what you’ve already noticed. 

Yeah. So, if you look at my ride to work every day, I noticed the same red barn, the same white post, the same sign and the same curve because I’ve already noticed them. I will notice them again and it takes a great deal of effort to press myself to notice the things I have not noticed that are very much true and as much a part of my route to work as they ever have been. 

Does that make sense? Yeah. I hear what you’re going to do today, Kaleb, is help us notice some things. Kaleb, give us a hard and fast example of the effect of a family system on the way an individual thinks. You know, rules. For example, do you buy organic, or do you not buy organic? 

Yeah. Where do you find that in Scripture? But there are certain values centered around the family system that when you grow up, one holds highly valued over another. So, what is right? And remember, we’re coming into this world as children and we’re taking this all in. Right. And to us, our family is the world. Yes. And so, as kids, we’re adding these things up and coming to answers and then holding those as truth. So, I really liked how that very crystal example makes sense. You speak of rules. Let’s go ahead and dive into it a little bit. Start to tease out family dynamics. Okay. 

Maybe give us a bucket to think about. Yep. Is that? Yep. Makes sense? Yep. So, there are a few different buckets. So, the first is, when it comes to family dynamics, there’s often what’s referred to as unspoken rules. So, there are certain rules in play. One example of an unspoken rule may be that we don’t ask for help, right? 

We don’t show weaknesses. Or one family rule may be, we don’t cry. Yeah. Or we don’t trust others. Okay? We only trust ourselves. Yes, we only trust who’s in this family unit. Or we keep certain secrets within the family. And so, these rules can vary from dysfunctional to functional. 

But they’re often not clearly stated. And I think your point is, Kaleb, we all have unspoken rules. Right, wrong, indifferent, impactful. Yes, those underlying rules impact how we behave as a family system and ultimately how I behave with others in relationship. And then another bucket is flexibility. 

So how do we adjust or adapt to change? And then the third bucket would be this continuum of closeness. Do we value independence? Do we fall on the independence side of the continuum? Do we fall in the more, we do everything together and you don’t do things on your own. So, you’ve identified three different buckets to think through family dynamics. 

The one is the unspoken rules. Am I right on that? The second one being flexibility. And I’m thinking about a very rigid household, right? Where things are just done this way. And on that continuum, on the other side, that continuum is a free-for-all. Yes. Okay. So that’s bucket number two. And then bucket number three is how connected they are in terms of closeness and distance. 

I think we can kind of smell those. Choose one and needle in a little bit more. Okay. Provide an example. Let’s take the continuum of flexibility or adaptability. Okay. Goes by different terms. All right. Bucket two. If you think about life, there are continual transitions, whether it’s another child in the family, a move, a job change, a tragic accident, there are changes that happen that are part of normal life. 

So, if it’s a rigid family system that I’ve grown up with, it has difficulty adjusting to that change, to normal life cycle changes. Let me give you an example. My wife went back to work a couple years ago. Okay. So, her role has shifted and changed and if I live in a family where there’s a rigid system, it will mean our roles at home would not shift. They would remain the same regardless of whether she went to work or not, right? 

So, I’m thinking about springs and shocks on a car. Okay, right? So, this rigid is just really tight springs. It goes over a bump, and it just absorbs it and there’s very little effect, it would appear. Yes. Things go on. Yes. All right, so now I threw another metaphor into the mix. Sure. A rigid system would tend to limit emotional expression. 

So, it limits even talking about how much it impacts. Yeah. Whereas chaos is tough. We knew it was going to be tough, but you know what? Let’s move on. Yeah. Whereas a system in chaos, is just as the term implies, and like your metaphor of these springs that are going out of whack, it might be, you know what, emotions may be overemphasized or may be erratic. 

Yeah. Okay. And so, it just feels very disruptive. But they’re left to go. They just happen. Yeah. And there’s no sense of clear north sometimes. When in a rigid system, there’s only one right. North. Even as you say this, I actually see beautiful attributes in both. Yes. I mean, rigid is still productive. It’s still getting the job done, and it’s going to true north like it’s always gone. Yes. It absorbed the blow, and you just dealt with it and went on.  

And that chaotic, we are losing true north, but yet at the same time, it acknowledged the emotional fallout. Yeah. There needs to be a sense of structure and boundaries and a sense of adjustment and flexibility. That would tend more towards chaos. Both of those are needed. Yes. We need some structure, and we need to be able to have some flexibility in order to adjust and adapt.  

And so really your encouragement to families out there is that you need to be able to spot both of these poles. And you need to respect each side but find yourself in the middle. Is that right? Yeah. Kaleb, provide a little bit of clarity about what this looks like with regards to leadership in the home. So, if we took a rigid family system, the leadership would be viewed as authoritarian. On the other end is chaotic where there may be just a lack of clear leadership. So, in the middle, obviously, there’s shared leadership. We see it in Christ with his disciples, he was able, at times, to stand up and be clear in certain instances. And other times he stooped down, and he washed the disciples’ feet. 

And he was influenced in that way by them and connected with them in a very intimate way. And so that’s where we see leadership. And I would say this continuum also has impact, for example, with discipline. How do we carry out discipline which falls under leadership? And on the rigid side of things, authoritarian, as you mentioned already, rigid would be very consistent. Very rules based. Yes.  

Chaotic could be non-existent or not consistent. Yes. So, again, at the same time, you see the beauty and the problem at the same time, don’t you? Yeah. And so, the message, again, is hopefully to notice and move towards balance. Yes. What happens if a person doesn’t move towards balance? What happens if it is just chaos, for example?  

So, let’s think for a minute, a child who grows up in a chaotic home where there’s no clear or minimal direction as far as leadership or discipline is erratic. One day you’ll be disciplined for something. The next day, nothing will happen. Okay. So, in that home, there are not clearly defined boundaries. And so, as that individual grows up, it’s difficult to understand what clear and healthy boundaries are.  

Okay, let’s go to the other side of things. Rigid. So, for someone who grows up in a rigid system, if you think about going through the teenage years, it’s a time of maturing of a time of moving into adulthood. Okay. And if there’s a rigid system that’s so structured it could impair development by taking away the free choice that is necessary for a person to learn from mistakes and so on and so forth.  

Yeah, I think those two poles have been painted very starkly. I think we can get a sense of beauty on each side and also for the harm and the difficulties they provide. Let’s go now to that connected piece. Here’s another continuum, right? Yes, a very connected family dynamic to one that’s disconnected. Let’s do the same thing, paint the pole so we can see them. 

Yep. So, on one end you have highly valuing independence. It’s valuing your independence and doing things on your own, making decisions on your own. On the other end, it’s we. So valuing connectedness and time together, doing things together, and sharing with each other everything. So, again, both of those are important wonderful things in a sense.  

But taken to extremes, what happens in the first part is disconnection. I’m unaware of what’s going on in the heart of the other person or individuals in my system. So, interacting at a deep level, an authentic level, isn’t there. It isn’t there. So, let’s go to the connected side of things. Again, it has some beautiful overtones of being a group and a family that’s connected and loves one another.  

But I’m guessing there’s probably a sour part of the pill and what does that look like? Yeah. Individual passions that are healthy outside of what the family might value can be really looked down on. So, the loyalty to the family system is overly high in what I’d call the more enmeshed or overly connected side of the families.  

And I would imagine now, as we talk about putting family systems together in marriage, these things come teed up, right? And no doubt, as you work with a lot of premarital couples, you probably can spot a connected history and a disconnected history. And so, anyway, you must be thinking something about, you know, Joe and Sally. Sure. Right. It’s a helpful lens to think through. What might be some things that they would struggle with? 

Getting caught up, maybe, in paralyzing guilt for doing things with the in laws. And not betraying allegiance, in a sense. Exactly. That could be one thing. It may be difficult. And again, these could be extreme cases here. But in a marital relationship, if there’s one spouse that has come from an overly connected family, then they may have difficulty with their spouse pursuing individual interest outside the marriage relationship. 

And they might see that as an issue. You don’t do that because that’s what they learned. It’s not because it’s bad. That was their blueprint. And so, it affects their marriage interaction in such a way that it’s difficult for them to see that as valuable and healthy for the relationship. Is there an issue of leaving and cleaving as the Scripture says to leave father and mother, right? 

Would that even impede that cleaving part? Yes, it would. It would impede leaving, because with an overly connected system, it’s difficult to leave. It’s looked down on to leave, in a sense. Yeah, right. But leaving is saying, I understand my family, where I came from, and now I’m turning towards and connecting and cleaving to a new family. A family of us. Yes. My spouse and I. Yeah.  

So, Kaleb, what do we do with the exasperation to say, how do I possibly get this right? Does that make sense? Yeah. I mean, immediately I’m reviewing my own family and I’m like, well, maybe we shouldn’t have X, Y, or Z rules, and maybe I should be stepping into, you know, A, B, and C, and probably yes to all of those things. 

But does that make sense? Yes. I think of our relationship with Christ or look at Jesus. In our relationship, it is balancing tensions of truth and grace, of mercy and justice, and of free will and sovereignty. And so, to think that I’m ever going to land in a place in the middle on these, certainly that’s our desire and our heart. 

And we pray that the Holy Spirit can continue to move us in that direction, but it’s constant growth and maturing. And so I think the same is true in our family systems to acknowledge and say, okay, this is what we’re moving towards in humility to acknowledge and understand and be aware of both how my family has influenced me and how that impacts me as a parent, if you’re a parent, and impacts the way I engage or look at my family system. 

Kaleb, I think right there are the brass tacks of the whole thing. In humility, we reflect. And we recognize. I’ve got some blinders, because I’ve been influenced in a variety of ways. And I’ve brought that into my present. And my spouse has also. And we acknowledge and we look at what some of those things are and where we are on these continuums. 

I’m just going to mention them again for the sake of our listeners. We talked about unspoken rules. We talked about rigidity to chaos. And then we talked about the connection to disconnection and recognizing where we’re at and then prayerfully moving towards a place of balance. Is that what we’re asking? Yeah. 

I think balance in Scripture is moderation. I think it’s a word used in the New Testament. And I think, what does balance look like? As I understand these dynamics, and again, for each of our family systems, that may look a bit different, but I think understanding these principles can help move us towards balance. 

Yeah, I think so. Thanks. Thank you for being here. Good for sharing that. Thanks, listeners, for being along. We trust that this has been a blessing to you. Kaleb wrote an article, and it’s on our website, Understanding Family Dynamics. You’ll find some of the key points in that article, as well as other resources on our website. 

As always, we are thankful to get feedback from you. Thoughts, questions, ideas, we always welcome those. You can email us at [email protected]. Thanks for being here.