Honoring Parents Podcast Episodes

The parent has to come to a place of saying, now I’m no longer the authority. And the child has to step into becoming independent and growing into, now, who is my authority? Because we’re all under authority, but it’s not necessarily mom and dad any longer. Right. Hello and welcome. Today I’ve got Brian Sutter and Amber Miller across the mic today. 

Welcome. Hey, thanks, Matt. Hey, looking forward to today’s conversation. My name’s Matt Kaufmann. Welcome to Breaking Bread. The topic today is honoring parents. This topic actually came from a listener, which we’re glad to know that there are other people on the other side of this mic. Somebody’s listening. 

Somebody’s actively engaged and thought, this might be a good topic. So, and you know what? It really is. And this is something no doubt you see in your counseling room. The concept of honoring mom and dad, what does that mean? Certainly, we have in the Ten Commandments etched in stone what God thinks about the topic, but sometimes it’s not that easy. 

And we want to really narrow in our conversation today on that space where we disagree. Obviously, that’s where the rubber meets the road with honoring mom and dad, but not necessarily do we disagree on right and wrongness, but on preferences, opinions, maybe on biblical applications. These things where we have disagreement and what does it look like when this intersects my views and mom and dad’s views and how do I honor them? 

Does that make sense? Yeah. When we’ve moved out of that realm of the Scriptures that clearly say this is right into that realm where there are principles to follow, but there are no clear black and white answers. Before we go into this difficult space, let’s first talk about this principle of honoring mom and dad. 

There are rewards there, right? Certainly, Scripture speaks to this. It’s important to honor mom and dad. There are blessings in that. It’s a good thing to pursue, and that would certainly be the place we want to start off with. Yeah. Ephesians 6 even says that you’ll have a long life, and it will be well with you if you honor your parents. 

And so, who doesn’t want that, right? Right, that’s the news which speaks, I think, to God gifts mom and dad with insights. And maybe they can’t connect all the dots to their conclusion. But their conclusion is still good. Right. And sometimes as a child we’re walking through life, and when I’m saying child there, I’m using a pretty broad sense of the word there, but that we don’t value mom and dad’s experience and what they’ve walked through as much as what we should. 

And that’s really a space where we need to give pause when we’re in disagreement. I think Timothy even speaks to the latter days when they are disobedient to parents. Romans 1 talks about disobedience to parents as being one of that ugly underbelly side of not worshiping God. Absolutely. 

That’s what it looks like. Yeah. And just even the reality of the culture that we live in, the pull is, do your own thing, be your own authority, and if we’re not careful, we’re not purposeful, we just get swept away with the pull of the culture. Let’s press into this difficult space though, because it is very real that we have disagreements. 

We don’t see eye to eye necessarily with mom and dad. And what then does honor look like? I think a lot of people can just translate honor into compliance that what I say goes and this is what I expect and so therefore do it. When in reality, it’s a lot deeper than just the outward accepting of what was said. 

I think that’s an important delineation. We’re talking about compliance here and honor. Does compliance equal honor? It would seem even in Ephesians they’re using two different words, obedience and honoring, that there is some distinction being made in the Scriptures. And certainly, as we step into relationships in general, we see this idea of how to interact with each other in a way that’s full of love, in a way that’s full of mercy, in a way that’s full of grace. 

It’s not necessarily that there’s never any conflict. It’s not necessarily that we all interact and end up in the same place on topics that are more peripheral, but it’s about how to walk through those things in a way that’s ruled by the Scriptures and the mandates of the Scripture. I think that’s really freeing and I want in this episode to really put our finger on what honor looks like and redeem that term in a sense. 

I mean, this is good for the parent such as myself thinking about what does it look like for my children to honor me? And for a child to say, what does it look like for me to honor mom and dad? Certainly, obedience and compliance have a part, and I want to massage that out. What part does it play? 

For children, it has to start in obedience. It has to start in this place of, I understand who mom and dad are, and I understand what it means to be under authority. And then moving into honor that is more about, okay, what does life look like doing this together rather than me just following instruction. 

So, there’s a differentiation of age. This growth process makes honor look different. Like what a child does at age six to honor their parents or to obey their parents is going to look pretty different, I would say, than when the child is 35 or when the child is 60. Sure. Developmentally they’re going to be in a very different spot. 

Yeah. And I can even sense that from my 14-year-old to my 6-year-old. Right now, we’re really beating the obey right away. Yeah. Right. At home. But even with my 14-year-old, that looks different. I find myself making more suggestions to him or preferences. This is what mom and dad think, but to my six-year-old, not leaving a lot of space for his thinking. 

Maybe I’m wrong on that. Right. So, if you step back and say, what is my goal? I think the goal, as you raise a young child, is that they would grow into maturity in Christ. That they would be able to be an individual who loves and follows the Scriptures in those times when they are all alone. And so, if that’s going to happen, it has to shift from me ruling over them to them learning how to live under the rule of Christ. 

Right. Okay. So, we are growing in independence as we grow older. Right. Yeah. I don’t know. Now you finish my thoughts, bring them together. One way to think about it is that as a person ages, they’re growing in independence in the sense that they’re able to live as a capable human being. 

Whereas you come into the world, and you can’t do anything. So, you’re steadily growing into independence, being able to live life independently, whereas as parents are steadily moving away from authority. They come in there at the absolute authority in some sense. And as their child ages, their authority diminishes over time. 

Very nice. Yeah. I think we can grasp that. I think that makes sense. But this doesn’t mean that we as parents don’t feel strongly about things. We feel very strongly about things and we’re very disappointed when our advice is not taken seriously. Again, we’re talking about this preference space or whatnot. 

So, I would like you to help us if we are taking a little bit off on this horizontal axis of compliance, whether I do or don’t, and more vertically up on honoring our parents. What does honoring look like if it’s not just falling in line with what mom and dad say? Well, I think even as you said that it’s more the internal versus the external and that can really tell where a person’s at and sometimes those go unknown a little bit. 

And so, you have to understand that honor is deeper. It’s not just I’m going to do what they say but with bitterness in my heart and anger and frustration toward them, and that is not honor at all. It’s doing the job, right? But it’s not the change of heart that you have. So even considering that sometimes honor is deeper. 

And so, honor may be, I’m going to do this joyfully, or I’m going to do this because I love you and I respect your opinion versus. Because I have to. Wow! So, when you say that you say wow, actually compliance is far too low of a bar for honor isn’t it? Yeah, I mean it’s almost really too easy if honor is simply doing a certain thing or outward only but you’re really pushing us that honoring parents is a very inward reality. And I think particularly in hard relationships, it exposes the reality that it’s not something that comes from without. 

It’s like the Holy Spirit, a supernatural power that is required for that to be possible, especially in those really hard situations. What would be some practical evidence of a person who understands this honor towards their parents and they’re living it out? Even just a starting point, which is really simple, like, when you’re talking about mom and dad in public setting, that you talk well of them. 

That makes a lot of sense. That you don’t air your family’s dirty laundry in front of everybody and all the things mom and dad do wrong, how they’re so dumb, things like that. Let me paint this as a picture, okay? Because sometimes, now I’m thinking three generations, right? Sometimes we have grievances and difficulties with our parents. 

Do our children know about them all? Do they need to know? Do their grandkids need to know that mom and dad have been hurt by grandma and grandpa in some way? And I know of situations where moms and dads protected their grandchildren from those previous hurts that didn’t concern them. And they let grandma and grandpa be awesome grandma and grandpas. 

Isn’t that a wonderful way of honor? Yeah. What a great picture that their goal is that others would see them well when they know things behind the curtain that aren’t that great. And maybe there’s a person or a place to be able to discuss that with but by and large, that is something they know about, and it’s not exposed to everyone else. 

Yeah. That’s great. You know, another thing that comes to my mind is just prioritizing the relationship. I think another way you can show honor is just making it a point to get to know them more as people, as almost peers as you get old and to be able to spend time with them just like you would with any relationship that you want to take to a deeper level. 

It can be really easy to get caught up in busyness or especially if you’re raising little kids to make that your focus and forget about and shut mom and dad out. Exactly. Another thing that comes to mind, too, for me is I think sometimes as we walk through life as either children or young adults, there are areas of life where we will be experts that our parents will not be. 

Like, technology, I think, is a good example where we may not be experts. You’re absolutely right. My children are experts. They keep talking, right? Exactly. So, with that, I think it can be very easy for children or young adults to come to this conclusion that since mom and dad don’t know how to run the internet, they don’t know anything. 

Thanks for listening. And that’s not fair, and I think we’ve got to be careful not to be foolish. A very simple way is just to pray for them, to pray for the people that we love, and just pray for wisdom for your parents, and just pray for them to continue to grow and develop just as you hope to grow and develop. 

You know, if you say that one, Amber, prayer for a person is a tremendous way to love them because only God knows about it, unless you share that you’re praying for them, which is totally appropriate to do. Paul did that all the time, but if I have a heart towards prayer, okay, sometimes I think we let this concept of whether I honor mom and dad all up to the very charged issue that we’re dealing with. 

Does that make sense? So, it’s all about how we’re going to work this business deal, right? Everything’s on the line with whether I’m going to go in the business or not going to go in the business. Does that make sense? All of it is whether I’m going to take the exact same application that they have taken for a certain issue, right? 

Honoring mom and dad in the privacy of my own prayer closet is one way for me to know that I am, rather than giving it over to the supercharged situation. Yeah, and I think that’s such a good point to just remember that honoring parents is really about the small moments. It’s really about how you talk with them and talk with them with kindness and grace and the tone that you’re using. 

And it’s in those things that really sets the tone of whether you’re honoring in those places that are hard. If you’re not honoring in the small things, there’s no way when you walk to something that you have a disagreement about to walk through that in an honoring way, if you’re not doing it in the small things, it’s just not going to happen. 

And I love that word kindness. I mean, is there any reason not to be kind? I know, how powerful is that? Yeah. And being able to not keep score is a big one too, in my mind and being able to let go of different things, especially say your parents recommended you took this course of action, and you didn’t. 

And you were right. I say you were right in that situation. It worked out for you. It’d be very easy to go back and just really point that out to them very unkindly and to say, you know, hey, look, I was right. You were wrong. And to really rub that in their noses. And that works for parents also, right? We watch our children. 

It’s exactly what I said. Right? But to have an I told you so, attitude is no way to maintain a spirit of honor. We may give our advice. We may give that whether it’s heeded or not, then to have almost forgotten what it was that we encouraged them, but to embrace them through whatever comes is I think a person with a real perspective of this. 

Yeah. And what a beautiful thing if we can build this space where we’re just walking through life together and that there can be mutual appreciation, mutual respect, and there’s almost this space that says we’re now in this place of more of peers or it’s more of a friendship relationship where there’s give and take rather than who’s right, who’s wrong, who’s in charge, who made the last decision and keeping score and all this counting that’s going to end up in your own heart and mind, bitterness and frustration and anger and certainly not honoring.  

Yeah, and I think there’s a wherewithal, I guess, for us parents to realize what kind of weight we do carry with our kids. I’m going to pull out an example of Paul and Philemon. Paul being the father figure. But when he addresses Philemon on this issue of application on this issue of persuasion, he even says there, I could command you, but I want to know your mind, your heart. You really get a sense that he honored Philemon in that. 

And Paul realized his own power and wasn’t quick to pull out that power. In fact, he kind of stepped off of it a little bit. Yeah. And what wisdom for Paul to take that approach with Philemon is respecting Philemon. And very inviting. Yeah, and invites him into a relationship. Let’s do this together rather than just commanding obedience. 

Whereas He may have gotten that, but he would have lost really what he wanted. Yeah, there again, going back to your earlier point, what had that compliance been? Honor is certainly not as deep as the honor that we’re really called to with our parents. Yeah, a great way to look at it is to be aware of your power as a parent and to know, hey, I could say this or that. 

Even knowing your kids, some of them might take your words very hard. And so, you could manipulate that if you wanted to. And likewise, kids, you can certainly do that with your parents. And so again, just not falling into some of those traps where you’re manipulating and twisting to get your way or to come out right. 

But rather put the other above yourself. And in that, I think too, just to see that as an interaction that the Lord can use to refine both of you. And that you really need each other. It’s not who’s best or who’s right. It’s how do we grow and use the gifts and talents, and the differences God has put in us so that we might be more refined. 

Oh, you’re so right Brian. We parents are sanctified by our children. And we children are sanctified by our parents, and we can see God’s larger purpose in that. Thanks, both of you, for widening our lens on what honor is and what it looks like, and even how it’s practically played out. I think that was helpful. 

And when we return, we’re going to broach the difficult topic of when hurts have been incurred over time. Sometimes that makes honor difficult and dicey. So, we’re going to talk about that. And so, to our friends, hopefully you can be along for that discussion, and we trust and pray that this has been helpful. 

Thanks for being along with us and Breaking Bread. Goodbye. 

And what a freeing thing to be able to see it through that lens that says, yeah, what happened was wrong and I don’t have to hold on to it. I can see it through a lens of it was their fallenness. And in that context, I think that just brings some freedom, the gospel is able to speak into those things. 

I’m back in the studio with Brian and Amber. Great to have you both along. And we’re going to pick up a conversation that we started on honoring parents. And in the last episode, we really did a nice job and really cast seeing this larger angle view of what honoring parents look like and what it doesn’t look like. 

Some practical applications of that we want to needle in now today on are some more difficult nuances such as marriage and singleness and what that looks like there and that transfer of honor and authority, as well as when we’ve got hurts that have incurred and what do we do with those.  

So, Brian and Amber, we have some clear gateways into this shift in the Scriptures with marriage, for example. So, it says you’re supposed to leave father and mother and cleave to your wife. And so, there’s this clear separation that once a person is married, well, then, yeah, I’m going to listen to mom and dad, but I’ve got to be at peace with my spouse. 

And it’s like, yes, that all needs to happen. But we have this space for the single, for example, where that might be a little bit clouded. So, how does that transition work? I think there can be a question of authority, especially for a female, and just, okay, who’s your spiritual authority now? 

If it’s not a husband, then who. I talk with people, and they wonder, is it okay for me to live outside of authority? And one of the things that it makes me think of is just the progression as you’re walking through life and you’re growing in that independence or you’re maturing that to invite other people into your life that can speak truth and those even being people that mom and dad can be supportive of as well. 

But again, that natural progression as you’re growing and maturing, you’re inviting other people to speak into those places. You’re already naturally moving in that way, whether you get married or not, there is some transfer of authority in and of itself just by those kinds of dynamics. 

Sure. And if we just think through the whole life cycle, I mean, at some point in time, mom and dad are not going to be there. Right? So, there is this release in a sense. I guess you could play this out to the end. What does a single do when mom and dad have passed? Obviously, there has to have been a God ordained transfer. 

Yeah, it’s so true. And just to remember that honoring is not just for singles. It’s for both married and singles. I look around our meeting today, Matt and Brian, both of you are married and I’m single and yet each of us have the exact same commandment in Scripture and all the stuff that we’re talking about applies just as much to you as to me. 

And so that’s pretty powerful to think about. Yeah. And again, I think it just takes us back to that place where we’re all on an even playing field. It’s not one is better or it’s not mom and dad who have all the authority but that we’re all underneath the authority of God. What does it look like, single, married, parent, child, that we’re living in a way that’s ruled by grace and love and those kinds of principles underneath the authority of God. 

And that’s a challenge for both the child, married or single, and for parents as well. It’s releasing things that we want to hold on to or rights that we feel we’re inclined to. It’s just hard. So, a few minutes ago, Matt, you mentioned that someday our parents aren’t going to be here. 

And it’s really interesting when you play out the whole life cycle of parenting. You think about what that looks like as a six-year-old, what that looks like as you move into adulthood, and then what that looks like when you’re older and maybe have to care for your parents. It’s almost like the roles get reversed toward the end of life. 

And that’s natural. That’s something that’s supposed to happen, but that’s a part of honoring parents. Look at a six-year-old. There’s definitely a space there that we understand what honoring parents look like. Yeah. And as middle aged, honoring parents looks different, but it’s there. And you’re absolutely right. When you’re caring for your folks. Wow. Honoring parents is obvious there in new vibrant ways. Absolutely. Yeah. And again, just that big picture lens changes and it moves it away from this one specific incident, whatever it is or issue into, wow, this is a lifestyle. 

It looks different, but honor, just as the commandment says, is so present always. I want to broach a topic. Some have been wounded deeply by a parent. It could be abuse, could be neglect of some sort, lots of hurts. And you know that better than I do. What does honor look like? What does that look like for me not to hold on to hurts that mom and dad have caused. Of course, they’ve made mistakes. Of course, they haven’t done things perfectly, and what does that look like for me not to hold on to that, for me to instead express love or have a heart that’s full of love and care towards them rather than hurt and judgment and holding on to things. 

So again, I think about what we mentioned earlier about the inward focus and are you holding on to all of those hurts? Are you keeping score? Are you consumed by your bitterness? Because I think that can be a really big indicator that there are some things that you’re maybe not at peace with or aren’t resolved in your mind. 

And so, for me, again, honor isn’t necessarily to have this restored relationship because sometimes that’s just not possible, but at some point, you do have to come to terms with where things are at. And one thing that comes to mind in that space is just being able to find a place or a way to be open and honest about just the reality of some of those hurts and maybe the effect and is there a trusted mentor figure? Is that something in your prayer life with the Lord that you can be bringing to him so there can be this space that says, boy, this is hard and this was hurtful and I want to move forward in a way that follows your commandment that I need to still honor them even in the midst of that. 

I’ve got a dear friend who’s had a very difficult upbringing to the point of being raised by a single mother who made very poor decisions, and he had to be removed from her home. But he still has a relationship with his mom and every time he talks about his mom, it’s always with honor. I know about the hurts, and it doesn’t make it less painful, but he processes all of that hurt in that it was the effects of sin, and it was the brokenness that she had, and he was part of the collateral damage of that brokenness. But he has a way of separating her from it if that makes sense and he does so through a gospel lens. That’s the only way I can make sense of it. 

And when you see that, it’s a powerful thing When somebody is able to be okay not asking the question, what do I deserve or what should have happened? But what does this look like to see this as my parent, as a fellow human being who’s far from perfect and certainly it wasn’t their intention to be a hurtful parent and just to connect with them on that level as a fellow human being, a fellow struggler and I want to interact and engage people in a different way and I can do that by learning even through their own brokenness and their mistakes. 

Yeah, and maybe honor doesn’t look like me asking advice from mom. Because of that. But the relationship, and that’s what we talked about honor is lifting up and having a respect for this relationship is so dear. That he is loving her like Jesus does, if that makes sense, it just looks different, but the honor is so obviously there. 

I love that. I love that honor is something that is organic in the sense that it changes. And so, I think that’s why people can get hung up on this. Because it’s not so clearly defined as we talked about earlier. It’s not compliance. Black and white are so easy but it looks different today than it did yesterday. 

That’s unsettling. And so being able to do this with grace and with love, it really stands out when you see good examples of that. Yeah. And what examples we do have in Scripture. I’m always mystified to watch Jesus interact when he’s brought before Pilate. He was very honoring. He’s very respectful. He knew how to walk this road of honor. You know, we have examples like Daniel with his kings, right? Clearly honor, but not exactly compliance. It looked very different. And David with Saul is another good example. There’s no doubt David honored Saul. Did he fall in line with Saul? Not at all.  

But that deeper love and respect was also vibrant and real. Yeah. And I think one of the things even as you’re sharing that, Matt, that comes to mind for me is that if you’re on the child end of this, like for myself as a young adult, I want my heart to be to honor mom and dad. My hope is that they will feel honored. I’m really grateful in my relationship with my parents. I think they do feel honored, but that may not always be the case. And depending on your circumstance, they may not feel honored, but it should be our heart’s desire that we honor them.  

Do you want me to break it to Brian that he’s not a young adult or do you want to? Am I an old man now? Have I moved into that category? You have no idea how many eye rolls went across the nation when you said that. Oh man, that’s the problem with this space. You don’t fit in with the old people, and the young people won’t claim you, so I don’t know. That’s great.  

Okay, I’ve really enjoyed this conversation and in closing, let’s just throw some words out there that you think of when I say honoring mom and dad. What are some words that help us crystallize that concept? Respect. A respect for them. Kindness. Just treating them with kindness and care. It’s a decision that we have to make that I want to and I will honor them. Lifelong. That’s a lifelong command. And with that, we’ll conclude here our episode on honoring our folks. 

I trust and pray that the content shared here today was God glorifying, it was biblical, and we trust that it’s helpful to each one. Thanks for being with us.