Shaping Sexual Character In Our Children Podcast Episodes

Welcome to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. We live in a sexually confused culture, and because of this, training up our children with sexual character is of utmost importance. Today I have with me brothers Brian Sutter and Craig Stickling to help share insights into doing just that. 

Welcome to the podcast guys. Good morning to you, Matt. Yeah, it’s great to be with you today. Because of the nature of the sensitivity of the topic, parents may want to use discretion on playing this audio with young children around. Craig, I’d like to start with you to begin this conversation. How important and what is at stake with this topic of sexual character. 

It is connected to so many other elements, spiritually, emotionally, relationally, even developmentally, friend-wise connections in so many areas. It’s a huge area and I’m glad that we have some chance to be able to talk about that. Today when we even look at the word character in itself, that blend of what’s in their head and what’s in their heart, and then it’s even supported by what they do. 

Yeah. It’s hard to imagine that you could overemphasize the importance of this topic. Being able to come alongside our kids and teach them what God teaches about sex and how to walk them through not only what God teaches, but then how to live that in a world that’s so against that. You know, even the term character is such a stout term as we think about shaping character among our children. 

It’s not like reputation, as I’ve heard it said, a reputation sometimes lags behind a person’s character or maybe exaggerates in front of a person’s character. Character is who they are. Craig, what are some of the concepts we need to be thinking about when we think about the sexual character of our children? 

As we share a little bit today, Matt, we’re going to look at five individual pieces and then I’m going to give a picture of how they all work together. But those five elements we want to look at are going to be called needs, values, beliefs, skills, and the support that comes around our children as we look at this topic. 

So, imagine a picture here. Think of a weight set, and a young child has a set of weights that they’re holding above their head and pressing down on them. We have attached this image, and it is available to our listeners at this time. The resemblance of those weights is just kind of this challenging environment, especially as it relates to our sexual culture and even God’s design for us individually with how he wants us to be aware of our sexual design. 

So, we have this image of this child who has got dumbbells above himself, and he’s holding those up and I can only imagine the weight of the dumbbells. Is the weight of sexual attraction in this case the weight of sexual influence? Is that right? That’s correct. So, in that picture, there’s our child and he is holding up this weight. 

They have this weight above their heads. And then, as we look at the child’s picture, in his mind, are core beliefs. Those things that we believe. So, that’s a picture that we want to talk about in their heart. That represents the values that they’ve been taught and that they’ve been given. Look at their stomach area. There’s this picture of needs and we think of maybe a gut feeling. But what are some of the needs of kids, even developmentally. And then we look at their arms and their legs and that’s the action, the movement piece. And there we want to think of the word skills. 

Those are what I do with what I know. And then the beautiful picture here, that alongside this child picture, one person on one side holding up an arm and another person on the other side holding up an arm. And those are the supports. One side represents parental support, the other side represents their peer group, their relationship groups, those other people that are around them. 

Brian, speak to the necessity of having all of those but maybe lacking one. What kind of condition would we be in? Yeah, I think that’s a really good point. We just have to make sure that we take a holistic approach here and that we see the different influences in place. I think a lot of times, we as Christian parents are really good at saying, don’t do this and don’t do that, and that’s a piece of the puzzle. 

But if we don’t understand the full picture, for example, even just thinking about needs and how God has created us to be relational beings. He’s created us with the sexual drive within us, and that’s just part of God’s design and being able to realize that and then teach that to our kids, that yes, you are going to be attracted to people. 

And yes, there is going to be this relational piece that is huge. And we as parents want to build a healthy relationship with them. So, there’s not this huge vacuum in that need area that ends up being filled with that weight in a way that is contrary to God’s Word. But if we don’t address that gut need that they have, and we act like it’s not there, or we try to downplay it, we’re fighting an uphill battle. 

Craig, what do you would say to that? I’ve had students, even my school, share this interesting picture where they’re like, we’re told over and over and over that that sex is wrong. And sometimes when these kids, especially I work with older adolescents, when they start to experience that a little bit, they don’t feel wrong. 

They feel something that is very pleasurable. We know it’s a design element, so now they have to make a decision. Why would my adults tell me that this is wrong? But when I try it, I really like how it feels. And so, we really leave them in a confused state, and we need to provide an answer for a need. 

Right. We have to provide it. So now that we’ve confessed that there is a need, they have a gut need what is that answer? Yeah. Well, ultimately, they have a need for relationship with God. That’s how they’ve been designed, and that’s the need that we ultimately want them to see and help that be fulfilled by what it’s intended to be filled by. And then also to be able to understand within that context that God has created us in such a way that relational connection between each other is also a secondary part that can help fill that up. And not in a sexual sense, not in a physical sense as much as just a connection with other people that help fill that up. 

So, we have just gone into belief then with that statement. When the answer to a need is God and God is belief. So, speak to that. When we look at the word belief, we want our kids to be able to really know, from a biological piece, how God has designed them. Do they understand how God has designed even the element, the practice, the beautiful gift of sex, and even where their sexuality fits into what it means to be a godly man or a woman? 

How should we view God and this creation of sex? Well, I think that fits really well into the beliefs in the sense that if we start from a place that says God is the creator, he’s created us, then therefore the way he’s designed us is going to be the way that works best. If you look at God, he is a relational God. There’s unity there in the Trinity, and he’s created us to have unity with us and within human relationships. Unity between a husband and a wife is mentioned over and over in the Scripture. That’s a very unique unity that’s brought about, and it does reflect God is the creator, who he is and how he’s designed the world. 

And really, you’ve said two things there, Brian, that God creates and what he creates has a resemblance of him. I think we would see that to be the case, whether an artist paints a painting or whether a mechanic builds a car or whether a programmer writes programs, a piece of them is in their creation. 

And not only that, but they know that creation best. Absolutely. And if they know that creation best, then absolutely they’re going to know the rules and the bounds. I think that’s where the values come in. If God says, this is the way it’s to be done, or this is the way to go about it, he’s going to know how that gift of sex is going to be best engaged and how to get the most fulfillment out of it. How it can be a good thing that leads to connection rather than a thing that just leads to destruction and devouring today because it’s not bound by the values that God has created.  

Is this spiritual? Most definitely it is. Look at the fallout and how many of the problems in this world, the problems in families and families breaking apart, so much hurt that has come out of this. So, if CS Lewis was remotely correct in saying that vices are a reflection of some virtue or a perversion of some virtue, then we have on our hands a tremendous virtue because of the tremendous vice it’s become. Yeah, and it goes back, I think like we’ve talked about creation, that God’s created this virtue, and when all of a sudden fulfillment becomes the object rather than God becoming the object that you chase after.  

Then all of a sudden, it turns into a vice and what was meant to fulfill us and be a good thing for us becomes this ghost that we chase, and it leads to destruction and ultimately, it destroys us. 

I can only imagine that Satan has a lot of satisfaction in seeing the heartache that he has caused by this tremendous gift, born out of the unity of the one he hates most. God. It really draws us back to that picture of our child holding this challenging environment, weight coming down him, and how important it is that they have good help, good support, encouraging them, and how to correctly understand this topic. 

Our kids are getting an education in sex all of the time. And for parents to be aware of that and then to be able to be a support who can teach them and engage them and help them be aware of the things that they’re just getting bombarded with that are inconsistent with God’s Word. 

And maybe there’s a self-reflection piece for parents to speak to as well. Maybe we need to go back to the drawing board. Do we see it clearly? And is that part of the confusion? Oh, absolutely. If our minds are just constantly affected by the culture around us, that’s why it’s so important for us to be in the Word around a body of believers that can reorient us back to the cornerstone, back to the truth. 

And I think that that includes sex and the Bible’s teaching on sex. As we wrap up the one that talks about support, one part of that is coming from mom and dad, but we also know that kids are very influenced by their peers and their network of friends and those kids that they connect with. And so, we want to look at that peer support and just even look a little bit through a Proverbs lens. And it talks about how those people that we surround us with can influence our decisions and our choices. And this just goes back to that character piece of who are my friends? Who am I choosing? Who am I wanting to be around, and what do they believe? What are their behaviors and how much can that impact our choices? And obviously strong networks and strong groups of kids really can help our children have good strength in addressing this topic.  

The word picture which we’ve painted here with this young person holding these dumbbells high, if you think of those friends hanging on the dumbbell. Yeah. Oh, how exhausting. The word picture is right. And isn’t that exactly what’s happening in some of our acquaintances? Yeah. And to not have that support there’s an imbalance of trying to hold this weight, but they’re getting a lot of support from mom and dad which is great, but they’re just not getting any support anywhere else, and some of that’s in our control and some of it’s not. 

 Yeah. I remember in fourth grade sitting in the hall getting ready before we were going into our classroom and one of my buddies brought a playboy and I didn’t have a clue what it was. I didn’t know what was going on. But I think you’re right just to be aware of that could be part of the peer influence that’s going on to pull our kids in the opposite direction of what we want them to, and not being naive about that, but also not being scared to death, but being able to engage that. 

And I think that’s where we as the parental support get to help build the skills to navigate some of those tricky situations that our kids are going to run into, and how important that our core beliefs and our values and our needs are secure and biblical so that our skills have the motivation to do what they need to do. 

So, let’s speak now to values. And that is, I think as you said Craig, over the heart of this individual. As we look at the heart, what should be said in words of encouragement towards the values of our children. We get to put that piece in their heart of something that is to be valued. 

And since it is valued, let’s talk some about the purity piece, the obedience to God’s design for them, and to instill those values often in what we say, what we talk, looking at examples that just surround us every day. Isn’t it important for that value to come from God? 

What kind of wind in the sails would that provide for a kid if they realize the degree of love that God has for them? Well, I think we’re understanding that then it also can breed and grow a desire and a love for God’s Word. And a desire to be obedient and not viewing God as somebody up there who’s, who’s creating all these rules to just be mean or, or keep good things away from us, but rather a good God who knows what’s best for us, and is saying, I love you enough to protect you from this and help you use it the way that it’s intended to be. 

You know, someone that has a valuable painting or something like that. What a waste if we had that and it was just tucked away in the attic that no one ever looked at. So, we get to be reminded of speaking often with our children, about our children, about the value that we have of even of a husband and a wife’s love and relationship and affection for one another. 

Let’s move now to the skills part. So, if I understand the picture correctly, we’ve got skills as the legs and the arms holding the weight up. What’s the skill piece? Those are the things that help us manage the internal desire that God has given us for the sexual desire that’s there. So, the skills are the things that help us recognize that’s there but also keep it within the parameters of God’s design. 

The specific skills would be things like being able to resist, to be able to recognize that sex isn’t bad. Sex is only good within this context, and then therefore being able to have some self-restraint standing up for what is right. We talk about peer pressure sometimes where the rubber meets the road of what I know versus what I stand up for? 

A strong skill is for a child’s refusal, ability to be able to say no to something. To say no to conversations or say no to someone passing around a photo or a phone that has a picture of something. That refusal skill of being able to say no. And not only that but then also wouldn’t it be awesome for our kids on the playground conversation, to say, I know, it’s an amazing plan. Can I tell you about that?  

I think another thing that fits into that as well is just the skill of being able to be open with mom and dad and communicate about where they’re at, what’s going on with their peers, to go home and tell mom and dad about that conversation on the playground. And then for mom and dad to be able to teach in that. But again, that’s a skill where we want them to be able to communicate and know that mom and dad are open to talking about a topic that that can be kind of hard to talk about.  

A glue that holds this all together is really the relationships we talked about, our relationship with God, our relationship with our parents. And even as we break down another piece and look at our relationships with one another, and we look our children and their relationships, their friendships. Some kids have lots of friends. Others, sometimes it’s a struggle area of having friends or making friends. But we look at that piece, that’s a very positive skill to have is the ability to make friends and choose friends and just to understand how that works. 

That’s a skill level all in itself. But it ties in so importantly to the development of their sexual character. Thank you, Craig and Brian, for the insights here today. As we discussed sexual character, that is who our children are sexually and how firm their beliefs and their values are and the nurturing of their needs and the skills and their support. 

This has been a tremendous conversation, and we’re not finished with the conversation of developing sexual character. We will pick up in subsequent podcasts the when, the where, the why, and the how of having this conversation from parent to child as it pertains to sexual character. If you’ve appreciated some of the things that you’ve heard today, feel free to visit our website at accounseling.org and click on the parenting tab. 

You’ll find the picture that we’ve referred to and some of the other resources that we hope will be a help to you. Thanks so much for being with us. Have a great day. 

Welcome back to the Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services Podcast. Today, I am glad to have Craig Stickling with me and Brian Sutter. Good morning. Yeah, it’s great to be with you today. And I’m Matt Kaufmann. Glad to have you along here today as we continue the topic of building sexual character in our children. 

We’ve spoken in past podcasts about the nature of God and how that impacts our understanding of intimacy and how important that is as we train up our children in the way of their beliefs, values, and needs. Today we’re going to get into more nuts and bolts of the practical. How is that done for a parent to have these conversations with our children? 

Because of the nature of the sensitivity of the topic, parents may want to use discretion on playing this audio with young children around. So, Craig, I’d like to turn to you first, and I’d like you to address and get this conversation started with the question, what do we want our kids to know? The most important thing to just start off this conversation with is remembering that God has a great design for our children and for their bodies. 

We can even just begin at the beginning of the Bible and look at the Genesis picture of God creating male and female and saying it was very good and to be reminded of that. And Psalm 139 talks about that. I will praise you for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. And that’s a great picture to start this topic off with regarding our kids. 

As we look at that Genesis account. Craig, very clearly shame entered the world after the fall, and is that some of our inhibitions when it comes to this topic? Is it because it’s shrouded in the fall of man? Satan loves darkness, doesn’t he? And he loves to keep things dark and covered, and he loves to just keep them out of the lens of light and truth. 

God has designed them and their uniqueness as male and female, and that’s a beautiful gift that he has given them. And we want our kids to be able to learn that lesson and know it early. And so, to have a naked little one run across the floor, run across the house after a bath and, and the older ones shrieking and they have some understanding that the little one doesn’t have, I guess that’s teed up for the conversation. 

Yeah, it is amazing when you think about this topic and just part of kids and their curiosity that they know something’s going on. And like you just described there with the youngest and they really don’t have a clue, but the oldest ones are a little bit like, they shouldn’t be doing this and this isn’t right. 

But, you know, everybody’s laughing or nervous and just part of them having been designed with this and there is this curiosity and we as parents get to step in and help them understand what their bodies are and hopefully help bring truth like Craig was talking about, to push back the shame and begin to say, this has been designed by God and is a good thing and let’s learn about it. 

I have caught myself and now I’m going to ask you as clinicians to counsel me. I have caught myself seeing that curiosity in my children and trying to squash it, saying, okay they are curious about this, and I don’t think they’re ready for the answers that they’re curious about. So let me try to help make their curiosity go away. 

We want to protect our kids and so I want to stop that curiosity. I’d love just to be able to put a cap or a cover on it and say, well, maybe 20 years from now, we’ll take that off and we’ll have that conversation. But you mentioned curiosity and that won’t go away, will it? But you do say there are some limits here and, and you get to be the one that navigates and says how much information and when that information is conveyed. 

And through what lens do I want it to convey it? You know, so the question that we posed is what do we want our kids to know? And we’ve really answered that they want to know it. And we’ve talked a little bit about that answer being about our bodies. What are some of the other finer points that our kids should know? 

Yeah, I think, for example, my kids are really young. I’ve got a three-and-a-half-year-old and a 2-year-old. I think one of the things that I want them to know at this point is that there are parts of their body that are private, that have been set aside just for them. That they are unique, that they are sacred. 

And for them to know that the parts of their body that are covered by a swimming suit, for example, are not to be touched by anyone other than mom or dad or somebody else that is an authority over them that we trust, such as grandma and grandpa. That would be a place to start, perhaps in a healthy sense of touch, in terms of bathing and appropriate discipline. 

That’s exactly what I’m talking about. And even being able to describe some beginning parts of that at an early age just as a way to protect them and so they know if somebody they don’t know touches them in their private areas or in areas that mom and dad have said, this shouldn’t be touched, or it shouldn’t be touched in this way. If that occurs, then hopefully we’ve opened that door, and they will come and talk to mom and dad.  

Craig, as you work in counseling with parents and kids, do you find clients who have been abused before they were even made aware of the abuse, and do you see this teaching piece as part of how we prepare our kids and protect our kids? 

Probably one of the saddest, most hurtful experiences for a child to go through is to be taken advantage of or to be touched inappropriately, or to have some action taken upon them that they’re not even sure what is happening and why that’s happening. Just the confusion and the shame and the hurt and the misunderstanding that brings and the lifelong impact that can have. So, to be able to take some safeguards for our children when they’re young, to give them the tools of understanding is huge in that. So, having that discussion for that young child is a protective piece for their sexual wellbeing.  

Yeah. And we look at the next step. Brian talked about his children being younger, and then as our kids get older, we naturally are driven to relationships, aren’t we? And as relationships start to attract and we start to notice the child there and say, I think I like that one. There’s something and that naturalness of that desire pulling as that grows. We want our kids to know what to do with that, and we want them more importantly, to know that God put that desire into their hearts, but he did it with a plan and with a purpose. 

And I think with that, for parents to be able to know their children well enough to know the ones that are really more geared towards physical touch or maybe geared towards wanting intimacy and that sort of a thing. And being able to come alongside them, helping give them an avenue of what’s appropriate, how to fulfill that when they’re 10 years old. And all of that really lends itself to teaching about their bodies, how God’s created their bodies, so that it’s done in a way that’s according to God’s plan.  

Okay, now you dropped a number, 10 years old. When is an appropriate age to talk to our children? It’s very important that we look at this topic, not maybe in the old lens of, well, as long as I have one good talk with them, and then that covers it. 

But I think we approach this topic and say, I want to be able to have multiple conversations over multiple years of growth with my child as I look at this topic. Yeah. And I think that’s really the key. It’s not when it’s just how do I do it? And knowing when it is appropriate at different stages. What do you tell a 3-year-old versus a 5-year-old versus a 7-year-old versus a 10-year-old. And it’s not only going to depend on age, but just where they’re at in maturity and where their curiosity is. But I think parents are going to err on the side of saying, oh, they’re probably not ready. And so, you’re going to probably need somebody or something to push you and say, why don’t you open that door a bit? 

So, help us know where to begin. I’ve benefited from that whole discussion about the fall in the garden and privacy and that type of thing. I think that’s helpful. But Brian, you just alluded to appropriate teaching at appropriate ages, and so we beg the question, what is appropriate? 

Well, I think it brings up one of the resources that we really appreciate and enjoy here. Often recommended by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services are resources, How and When to Talk to Your Kids about Sex and God’s Design for Sex. And it’s a series that puts information in an age-appropriate progression and I think that’s a good place to start. Maybe looking at a resource like that could give you a little bit of a blueprint of what you share with a 3-year-old, and so forth. 

And it also gives you a resource that you and your child can come alongside and look at together versus having to sit down face to face on a topic that can feel pretty daunting. Craig, can you share some examples that this book might lay out? And I know we don’t want to pigeonhole if they’re five years old, this is appropriate, or if they’re 10 years old or 12 years old, but just give us a few ideas. 

The first book looks at an age range of three to five. So, we, as moms and dads, can determine where our child’s maturity level is and be able to understand that somewhere in that range. There’s a book out there, it’s called The Story of Me, and it’s just very gentle. An opening picture looks at Adam and Eve and God’s design for boys and girls being different. 

That then turns into the next book Before I was Born, which is ages five to eight. Approximately book number three looks at What’s the Big Deal. Now we’re getting into some pre-puberty, eight to 11, and then the final book of the series for kids is called Facing the Facts. And for the preteen age, 11 to 14 that really drives home the foundation of God’s design for them. 

I can hear myself asking this question. I would imagine many others are saying it as well. Craig, Brian, can we broach these topics too early? Well, I would say there definitely is that possibility, and I don’t think Craig or I are advocating that you need to go into fine detail with really young kids, but for them to have a basic understanding of their bodies and why they feel, the things they feel, why they have the curiosity that they do and what that’s intended for is hugely important. And then as they go more into the fine details it is essential, and you’re probably going to feel like you’re giving too much too early.  

But I think the viewpoint is that you want to be the teacher, you want to be the one who is talking to them about things that are really hard to talk about. You want to be the one that says, no, this is what that is, this is what it means, and this is what it looks like through God’s lens. So, we have the opportunity to define the terms. 

Exactly. Yeah, I think that’s exactly what we want to do, so that there’s understanding, there’s clarity and that it’s built on truth and not fiction. And then I would imagine, and I’m not a psychiatrist, there’s some unwinding that needs to be done if their first exposure is dirty, sinful, and wrong to try to get it back into the parameters of God ordained and God created. 

The blessing of that is truth sets us free, and truth becomes the light. There are folks listening, parents listening who haven’t done this. In fact, they think I haven’t started at three to five. Are you kidding me? And here my kids are 12 and 14 or even older. Is there any hope? Is this beyond being redeemed? Help that parent know where to go?  

I would say it’s probably too late. They should probably just sell their kids or give them away at this point. Oh, wow. That was Craig Stickling! And I think with parenting, you find out down the road there’s something you wish you would’ve done differently. 

I mean, isn’t that the nature of parenting? And I think that’s the beauty of it, that of course you haven’t done it perfectly. No one in this room is claiming that we’ve done it perfectly, but it’s about saying how do we sharpen each other and how do we help each other engage the things that maybe we’ve neglected? 

How do we step into it? Not with shame, not with fear, but with courage and truth, with wisdom, humility, and repentance, those sorts of things. And that therefore no matter where your child is at, go for it. Just go for it. Start the discussion. You’re probably going to be nervous and shaken and it’s a hard topic to talk about, but, but step into the water and see where it goes. 

That’s the beauty of the gospel, isn’t it? It provides the truth to set us free before we find ourselves in harm. And it is the truth that sets us free from the harm we may have found ourselves in. And it’s not hard for us as moms and dads to get on the guilt train and look at what we haven’t done right. And compare ourselves to others. And that’s such a hard thing. And it comes sometimes so easy for us. So, we look at it from a redemptive process. And there you have Craig Stickling weighing in that he’s going to buy those kids back. Is that right? We’re going to buy those back. We’re not ready to give them away just yet. 

That’s right. Don’t throw the towel in. I think everybody would agree that we live in different times. The generation before us and the generation before them had different issues, and the culture was different, and the demands on them were different. What do we need to be aware of? As it relates to sexual character information is instantaneous. 

Even young children, very young are taught that if you need to find the answer to something, there’s a neat thing on the computer and it’s a web browser, and I can just type in a question and I can get an answer. I can get a map; I can get a picture in just like 0.2 of a second. And really a lot of that’s difficult to filter, isn’t it, even with the filters we have on our computers. Google images, for example. You can put some benign things in there and get the images that you are really looking after. We will not get the lens that God wants us to have for our kids.  

They will not get the biblical lens of their body being a great gift, and it’s meant to be valued and kept private and, in a sense, to be kept sacred in a special way. And I think that’s why one of the tools that parents need to use is filtering and blocking things on the internet. But like you mentioned there, Matt, it would be foolish to think that you can protect your kids from all of those things that you’re mentioning, Craig, because there is just so much of it out there. 

So, we have to have more than just filters. We want to teach our kids the truth, and we want to help build up skills so they can manage and live in a world where the culture around them is going to be living out things that are contrary to the truth.  

Well, I think a hot topic of concern for parents, for any child in a formal education and certainly public education is sex education class. What do we think about sex ed? Should my kid be in the class? Should I pull them from the class? Help us think through that. There may be some situations where it is probably the best decision based on either the curriculum or the presenter to say, I don’t want my child to be part of this. But another flip side of that is as we engage and strengthen our children in the truth of what they know of that already, if they go through these lessons and they’ve already been presented the truth through a biblical Christ-centered lens, there’s so much opportunity then for us to follow up and have discussions with our kid that evening. Hey, what’d you talk about? How is that different than what we shared? Or maybe how is it the same? And so, we’re able to reinforce godly teaching in the minds and hearts of our children.  

This is what’s taught out there. How does it match up with what we know God wants us to live in here. Yeah. And in the right situation like you’re describing there, Craig, it gives parents an opportunity to help deal with real life stuff with their kids. As they go through that and give them coaching and teaching while they’re under their authority, while they’re willing to listen and be influenced and shaped by mom and dad can be a really powerful thing. 

Thanks, Craig and Brian, again for this insightful conversation about the sexual character of our children’s and in particular our role as parents as it’s been given by God to help shape that character. And by God’s grace, each of us will be able to do that. Thanks for listening today. Feel free to go to our website at accounseling.org and under the parenting tab you’ll find resources and help along the way. 

Have a great day.