Bitterness Podcast Episodes

And when we get hurt, or when someone hurts us, my heart gets hurt, my feelings get hurt, right? And when we don’t respond to that correctly, it can impact so many different things. Welcome, friends, to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family. Services. I’m Matt Kaufman. 

Craig Stickling’s with me today. Good morning, Craig. Good morning, Matt. Our topic today is bitterness. Craig, let me tell you and share with you the quote that I heard that caught my attention. And then it got me musing on this topic. And that was this. The quote is from Joshua Gibbs, and he says that passion is the sin of young men, while bitterness is the sin of old men. 

So that caught my attention, right? Yeah, especially since I’m in the older men category now. But then he followed it up with this and he said, bitterness is worse. And so, I don’t even know if that’s necessarily a true statement, but it does cause us pause to really, really think, because when we think about the big sins of this world, a lot of them are passionate sins, right? 

Murder, sexual infidelity. These sins of passion. But what the quote purports is that bitterness tends to come later in life and in some ways is more poisonous for humans. Yeah. And so, whether it’s right or wrong, we’ll leave that go. But let’s use that as a springboard into this particular topic of bitterness. 

Bitterness is able to permeate so many different elements of life. Our family, our spouse, our kids, our work, our church, our special interest groups, or things that we’re able to get involved in, right? We’re constantly in this tension of interacting with people and being let down or disappointed or things not going our way. 

And then how do we respond to that? And bitterness seems to be a very effective tool to be used by the enemy in separating people from their rightful relationships and connections with one another. So, I just want to capture a few things. You’ve just mentioned how expansive the fingers that bitterness has in our life. 

And then you discussed, and you mentioned even insult added to injury side, the way, the nature through which bitterness grows. So, I want to capture both of those things. Yeah. And let’s first go to that expansive. What do you mean that it touches on all of these areas? 

I think it reveals the nature of our heart. We were created for relationship and those things that impact relationship and the fall of man, or just in sometimes our own decisions and sometimes things that we don’t do well, or that we don’t understand in our interactions with other, those things that are constantly separating and that tension piece that’s there. 

And when we get hurt or when someone hurts us. The Bible uses the word offend in a sense, but really, as we just basically look at that as a wounded spirit, my heart gets hurt, my feelings get hurt. And when we don’t respond to that correctly, it can impact so many different things. It can impact, like I said, I thought I was going to be Sunday school teacher. 

I was hoping that would happen, and I didn’t get the vote. And now what do I do with that? Or I brought home flowers for my wife where I was like, oh, I’m so excited. We’re going to go out to supper, and she had a bad day and we’re not going. And then I go, and pout and I can step back from that. 

Or one of my kids, I gave them some great advice and they’re doing that complete opposite and how do I respond to that? Where we’re constantly engaged in being able to be hurt or to be offended, to be pulled off what we were hoping for some way. You know what, you mentioned not dealt with that correctly. 

You mentioned if we’re hurt and not dealt with it correctly. So, you’ve even given a hint to some remedy. And that is prevention. There is a prevention element to bitterness, which then goes on to say that bitterness tends to grow. Is that a fair statement to say? Minor events stacked up on top of each other become very significant. 

Yeah. God already knew this here. He knew this was going to be a piece of our lives that we were going to have to engage even as disciples and he gave us the Word to wash and to reflect us and we think of that verse in Hebrews 12 and it says looking diligently lest any man fail the grace of God lest, and here that gets into that growth part, lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble us and thereby many be defiled. 

So, what starts small can grow, but then look at the impact expansiveness, right? Yeah. Not just us, but then those around us are impacted. It requires a person of age to have this. Insult added to injury, compacted, unhealed wounds to become what bitterness is. Doesn’t it? Yeah. And I think as you mentioned earlier in getting back to that quote, Matt, that bitterness can almost take on this veil of invisibility in a sense, right? 

A passion of murder right at the end of that moment. We see a body. It’s there where bitterness becomes a little bit more under the surface, it’s under the surface yet defiles much. And I want you to speak a little bit about what is the manifest. What is the fruit of bitterness? It does have a root, which means it probably has some fruit, right? 

I like a model that I learned a long time ago that’s really been helpful for me that looks at the progression, that fruit of bitterness. So, it starts off with the woundedness, right? I get hurt, or I get offended in some way, and I don’t deal with that correctly and responsibly. So, then my response next is, okay, I now have this root, this seed has been planted, this root is starting to grow. 

So, what is some fruit of that? I think the progression that I’ve appreciated being able to think about is that thing goes into anger. And I start to just see, it’s not a quick flash of anger, but it is a seething below the ground. It just kind of keeps there behind the screen. Festering is a great word, right? 

And then that anger that produces an insubordination a stubbornness. Okay Now I’m like that calf and my hooves are dug in and no one is going to make me move and I get passive aggressive. I’m just not going to be teachable. I’m going to start justifying myself. 

I’m going to start removing my relationships with other people in a justification sense. And then that moves into the final fruit, which is the most damaging is then rebellion. Right? I don’t care about anyone. I don’t care what anyone thinks. I’m doing my own thing. And you see that progression coming from that brute and what that produces is just so destructive, defiling. 

I like how that works. Thereby many be defiled. As you mentioned there, one of the fruit that caught my attention was that inability to be taught. Yeah. And then when we close ourselves off from information, from teaching, from correction, that is a, That is a dangerous place. Yeah. The movement into that stubbornness, sometimes rebelliousness, sometimes to the person that is hurt, they’re in self protection mode. 

They’re like, hey, I have to build these walls. I am so tired of being hurt. I have to build walls to protect. And what’s interesting, yeah, we can build walls. To maybe keep out hurts, but sometimes we build walls so well, we keep ourselves locked in. Yeah, and do you think also sometimes, Craig, that there is a level of comfort with the bitter narrative that we run in our head? 

For example, if I have been wronged, I can run that script in my head and I can soothe myself by that negative script, right? Which, which maintains the bitterness in my life and it’s almost becomes a familiar safe place. Right. And that does become our, our comfort. It does become our go to, doesn’t it? 

Yeah. So I, we’re going to get to the prevention part because that’s, I think, a really beautiful thing. But let’s first, let’s talk about the cure. What, there is hope for the bitterness. What does it look like for a person to move from a bitter place to one that’s not bitter? Great, great question, Matt. 

I remember back when when my mom and dad got divorced, and I was 17 when that happened, and I, I see Now, as I look back, my mom had gotten wounded, she had gotten hurt, and, and it was just as, as she went underground with that root, right? And then when it finally started to come out and things were started to be, Hey, you know what? 

Maybe we could get some help. She was done. She had built those walls and it was so, it was so hurtful to see that piece of, of her being removed from that, that isolation, right? And so. Looking back to your question, Alright, how do we move forward? What are we able to do? I think the number one thing is that we really need to just Be locked into the principles of dark and light. 

God loves light. Bring to light. Satan loves dark. And then Satan also loves isolation. God loves community, right? So how do we grow? How do we connect with people that were able to be open with someone? I think where does it start is having someone that we’re able to be open with. Yeah, I really appreciate that. 

Craig, and to that, to that pain, I’m incredibly sorry. And while this is not about your mom or that situation, you’ve just really elevated some really critical elements. And the one element is that a bitter person tends to silo themselves. Yeah. But your suggestion is part of that has got to be in the community. 

Yeah. The community of light. Yeah. That, that can, that can challenge and bring light to that situation. Yeah. So very much so. And this is where, boy, this is where it gets so vital, and also so difficult. Cause, where would we go in the midst of our, of our hurt and our pain and our struggle with things that aren’t going well? 

We would think we would go to our church family, right? And yet, there’s this dynamic of shame. Well, church is where we go when we just are everything because everything goes well when you’re a Christian, right? And good Christians, everything always goes well. So now if I come to this church family and I acknowledge that I’m really hurting with something that is really messy, I have a choice to make and I don’t know if I can do it. 

I don’t know if I can be open cause that then, that then what it does it do it, it rips the facade away. And I don’t know if I can do that. I don’t know how to do that. I don’t know how I’ll be accepted because there’s so much vulnerability recall depth of that, isn’t that? And that vulnerability is really the capacity of exposure, right? 

How much exposure is going to be required when we get to these deep levels of. of bitterness. Yeah. Because we’re talking about some things that are very, very personal. Yeah. And some things that are quite a lot to unpack if we’re talking about time over time over time. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Where, where things are not cared for and incidences. 

And so you’re, you’re suggesting there isn’t an opening of that, a sharing of that, that is quite needed. Yeah. In order to penetrate that, that fortress of bitterness. Right. Right. And you step back and you look at the definition of mercy right now, looking just from a church body lens and, and, and how do we, we help strengthen, grow one another be on the lookout for the weeds of bitterness and to recognize that. 

But mercy recognizes that there’s a need on one end, and then there’s also someone on the other end who is able to meet and, and fulfill that need. Yeah. And the beauty of the church body to be able to step into that, recognizing how gossip, And those who aren’t confidential and what someone shares and, and how quick that can just destroy a fabric of being vulnerable in a church. 

So you’ve just, you’ve just, Perceive my next question and that is give us instruction, craig to receive bitterness out of another person What does it look like to be on the other side of things and help draw the sabbath that poison out? Well, you mentioned the old man thing right here And so so there’s a beauty of that in the church, right? 

There’s that intergenerational beauty and growth and being able to recognize you know What there might be someone in that next? You Age span above or below that’s in a phase of life that I’ve already been through, or if I there, I’m able to look back and say, Oh, I remember what it was like as a young family in their in their thirties or twenties or even as a young, you know, single person at college or school, but we’re able to look back at that and we’re able to reach into that. 

So I think really to have a heart of awareness. To be willing to see, to be willing to look, to be willing to reflect where I’ve been, and then to be able to look and see, and my church family, where are those that are there? I want to be able to have eyes to see on a day what Christ sees. I really like that. 

I just had the opportunity not too long ago to take my 11 year old Sunday school boys out to camp. And one of the reflections that I had was, At what a beautiful age they are at 11. They’re just, there’s a, there’s a sense of innocence. Yeah. Yeah. And it was really good for me, a jaded adult who, who sees things through a slant, perhaps they’re the healthy one. 

Yeah. , right? Yeah. And I am in need of them. Yeah. And, and I say that more as a metaphor to this concept of what value can be brought when we mix intergenerationally. Yeah. Yeah, I think the beauty of, of following up, like you said, so what are some things that you know that we’re able to do to help support someone who is struggling here? 

As I said, to be able to look right, that’s the first step, then to be able to be willing to engage, to be willing to sit and to connect or just to say, Hey, let’s, let’s Let’s have coffee or you know, kind of do a phone call or I’ll find that stool next to you at the lunch table and to be able to sit and connect for a bit and to be willing to go, you know, maybe reflect first, but to be willing to ask, you know, how are you doing? 

How, how are you really doing? Right? I think another element, Craig, is you need to be willing. To endure the hardness of what that person is going to share. And sometimes the hard manner through which they’re going to share it. Because when we share the bitterness in our life, it’s not often with a smile and sometimes it’s with a snip. 

Yeah. And, and you have to be able to receive that and recognize that the bitterness is talking right now. Yeah, hurt people hurt people. And you might be the person that asks and you might be the person that gets unloaded on. But to recognize no, wait a second, I, I, I, I’m not going to take this personal right now. 

My job is to bear that person’s burden, right? And so bear one another’s burdens. And so I’m going to step into that role just as okay, you got one and I got the other. And we live together. I’m going to help you hold this right. And to I think one of our challenges that we get is that we think we have to fix what they share. 

We think we have to go into. All right, I’ve got some something somewhere that says, Oh, hey, let me give you the solution to this. Let me fix this right now. And to recognize that or her person right that moment, they’re not looking for solutions. They’re just looking, can I trust you with my hurt? And just to listen and to bear, be willing. 

And probably be slow to correct it. Yeah. Yeah. There’ll be time for that. Yeah. There’ll be a time for that. But at that time, that I don’t need to be in, oh hey, I can fix your problem in three easy steps. Boom, you got a piece of paper. Let’s write them down. I got them for you. Because again, we’re talking about decades built on top of each other. 

A few words is not gonna fix this. Yeah. But what, but what that person is doing is receiving. Yeah. Receiving that person who is, who is bound in bitterness. And this is where I’m going to cut in on our conversation for today. We’ve heard from Craig on the effects of bitterness and how the community is important to receive such individuals in the help and health that we can provide. 

But when we come back, Craig is going to talk to the embittered out of his clinical experience, as well as personal life. Craig’s going to shine light on a roadmap to health. I hope you can join us then. 

That there was no bitterness that day, there was a, there was a joy of, of God’s amazing grace. In the hurt, there is, there is a joy that comes out of that. And we were just blessed with that. I know not everyone gets that sense, but we were able to, to receive that small gift. Welcome back to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services.

I’m glad to air the second portion of a conversation I had with Craig Stickling on the concept of bitterness. In this particular episode, we’re going to look at the embittered. What does it look like to be free from bitterness? So, Craig, we talked about how to receive that person who has bitterness in their heart and their life.

How about to that person with bitterness? Yeah. What else is left for them to do to really lay to rest the bitterness that they have? A couple of thoughts just as, as we reflect a little bit this, on this, Matt. One is, is that we shouldn’t be surprised. You know, Jesus was talking about, you know, it’s going to be impossible for offenses not to come.

Alright, so I think we have to be aware that, you know what, that’s going to happen, that’s going to be part of our Christian walk, that we will deal with those hurts in some way, some capacity. It’s so vital just to remember the Psalms. And David cried out, and David when he was hurting, he was quick to cry out, he was quick to be real with his hurt.

And I think for the bitter, for the person who is hurting in that sense, to acknowledge that hurt. We’re quick to brush things under the rug and do the, well, as a Christian I shouldn’t do that. Be feeling this way, so I’ll just pretend that I’m not, but to be able to acknowledge that if there’s true grief, if there’s a loss to recognize that, be willing to accept the reality of that, I think is a huge starting place.

We kind of have three, a road that has three different paths, right? When, when something has happened and for us then to say, okay, I’ve been hurt. Something has happened. I’ve had the wounded spirit. Maybe it’s been there. Maybe I’ve tried, but I have to some point, I just have to say, okay, I just need to forgive that person.

Lord, I’m gonna work on my forgiveness. I just gotta work on that. So sometimes we just go into a forgiveness route. The second route sometimes just to say, Ah, you know what? I’m gonna overlook that. I know that person. What they said or did really isn’t that different than how they usually operate or act.

So I’m just, I just need to overlook that. That’s that’s their world and I don’t need to get sucked into that world. Looking at the third one, and this is kind of the tough one. The third one is acknowledging that maybe what that person said or did, maybe there was some truth into that. Maybe I need to glean from that.

All right. What can I learn from that? Maybe I’m offended, but It’s really what the person said was correct. I need to learn. I need to be willing to, to look deep into myself and to say, Oh, was there some truth in that? Okay. So to step into those kind of three different lenses. Three different things. That first one is you have been offended against wrongfully.

Yeah. And there is a forgiveness piece. Yeah. And the scripture lays that out. The second is really checking that script that’s in our head. That am I, have I been telling myself the truth all these years? Did I really interpret that correctly? Is there a different way to interpret that? Yeah. And then that third one is, What do I need to learn from that script?

What is truth there? And what do I need to come to terms with? And, and grow from. I think those three are very vivid. I think those are very helpful. They at least give us a place to start, don’t they? They at least give us direction. Let’s now go to that prevention piece, because a number of times you’ve dropped the hint that if wounds unproperly cared for move into this bitterness, which is tremendous hope that simply says, we don’t have to go there.

This doesn’t have to be my sin of old age, right? Right. And in fact, it’s, it’s not in so many lives because. They’ve done the preventative medicine. Speak to that. I love how Paul in, in acts 24, he says, I exercise myself to always, to have always a conscience, a void of offense toward. God and toward men.

And I love that, that language there to exercise myself. Right. And so we get that, we get that word picture of exercising. I think another piece that, that comes into mind is, is. I love the, I love the lens of, of Christ was truth and grace and something I, I heard from someone really only has stuck with me and I said, you know what, do I always view everyone else on their actions?

And I just view myself on my intentions. So I hold people to such a higher standard, their actions, their words, their choices. You know, I hold them up in the, in this book. powerful lens of truth. But then when myself, I get to grade myself on my intentions, you know, I apply grace liberally to my actions, choices, and words, but everyone else, I think that’s a, that’s a unique piece of being able to recognize how do I switch that around a little bit more, right?

No, I love that. You know, as we kind of bring this to a close here Craig, the concept of freedom comes to mind, that bitterness really is enslaving, isn’t it? Yeah. It binds us. And so much of the word of God and the gospel in particular speaks of freedom. Yeah. Speak a little bit to the freedom that Christ offers and the beauty of laying to rest bitterness.

Yeah. Christ says, I, I just don’t want you just to have a good life, you know, or an abundant life. I want you to have one more exceedingly, right? And I love that, that, that desire that Christ has for us in our life and how we relate to one another as well. And the ability to apply that, that beautiful lens of forgiveness.

And His forgiveness to us, right? People’s interactions should be a great, continuous reminder of how much Christ forgave us. And that, that, that horizontal interaction is always reminding us of the vertical interaction, our relationship with Christ. And to be able to rest in that, to be, be willing to rest and to know that, that Christ, that Jesus, my Savior, knows where I’m at each and every day.

Craig, you, earlier in the podcast, mentioned marital difficulties that, that your folks had. And I can only imagine that this had to have been a seedbed of potential bitterness in your life. I’d be honored, and I know our listeners would be as well, to hear just a little bit about how you settled that, maybe what it looked like to do that.

It could be just a statement or two. Yeah, yeah. A thought on, on just your question, Matt. One is time. You know, as I look at, at that, Satan was very content for me just to stay on my own island and just to minimize and just to separate out. And yet that’s not who Christ is. And over time, I love how over time there was a, there was a growth in my relationship to my mom.

And in that sense of, of not letting bitterness be able to rule, but to be able to establish may not be what we want, but What can we have now? Where can we, what can we accept with what we have and to be able to to lean into that and to be grateful for that? Over years, there’s just a path over years of, of opportunities of some that I needed to initiate, but in, in my healing, my, my connection with my mom that I could never have scripted.

It wouldn’t have been my script, but as I look back, I’m able to see how God was working through at the right time, at the right at the right moments, the intersection pieces and how he was able to provide through that. Thanks, Craig, for sharing that. And for being vulnerable to that end, a couple of things that I just want to point out is one is patience was required.

Yeah. Another one was engaging hurt. Sounded to me like you engaged the hurt. I think one of the tendencies of bitterness is, is the past continues to, continues to speak into our present. Yeah. Sounds to me like you engaged. so that that past could speak a different message in your future, but you intended and were determined to move forward.

Yeah. Yeah. With the events as they were. Right. Is that a fair way to say it? Very fair. And we go back to even our original maybe thought, Matt, about community and that connection with the church family and having vulnerability in that. And I wasn’t bright enough, or wise enough, or spiritual enough, or insightful enough back as a 17 year old to be able to have all these elements figured out.

But I was grateful there were people that came along, and there were people that spoke into me. Sometimes, sometimes with that lens of truth that I was like, I don’t know if I’m ready to hear that, but I needed to hear that. And they spoke to my heart, right? And that, that was such a framing for me to be able to stay in that sense of, okay, bitterness is not the path.

This will not bring, this will not bring you peace. And so then you can say that you have clear conscience before God without any bitterness regarding your situation. Yeah. Yeah. It was beautiful when, when my mom passed away and the Lord just opened up such amazing doors for her and at the end of her life and, and nursing home care and much blessings to my sisters as they did such a great amount of work in that.

But when she passed away, there was no, there was We were in a room with her and we’re able to have prayer and, and and a song and to sing. And that there was no bitterness that day. There was a, there was a joy of, of God’s amazing grace. And that is the joy in the hurt, right? In the hurt, there is, there is a joy that comes out of that.

And we were just blessed with that. I know not everyone gets that sense, but we were able to, to receive that small gift. And I think we’ll close with that Craig. You’ve painted a Tremendous picture and vision of the forgiving life, the forgiven life, and the forgiving life that looses us from the bondage of bitterness and sets us free.

Yeah. To enjoy the joys of Christ. Yeah. And that’s really what all of us have. And I think this, I trust to our listeners, this has at least spurred you on to think as we move and as we age and get older we do need to have a bit of a thought, a

pulse on the wounds that we’ve incurred and whether we are allowing them to fester and turn into bitterness.

Yeah. Are we Prov using preventative medicine. Are we working these things through? And ultimately, are we forgiving where we need to forgive? Yeah. So that we can live out our final days. Yeah. Right. As, yeah. As free men and women of Christ, right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Thanks Craig. Appreciate it.

Blessing to be with you, Matt.