Parenting and Cell Phones Podcast Episodes

Welcome to the first Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services podcast. This conversation is designed to help the hurting, nurture hope, and encourage growth. And we’ve chosen a topic where help, hope, and growth are much wanted. It is on cell phone use, and today we’re specifically talking to parents who are trying to build a foundation for cell phone use in their house and among their children. 

So, I’m glad to have a couple participants, Craig Stickling and Brian Sutter are with me, and we’re going to share on the topic of cell phone use. My name is Matt Kaufman and welcome Brian. I’d like to turn to you first with the question, what should parents think about when considering the topic of their child getting a cell phone? 

First of all, I think I just really encourage parents to really consider why they are getting a cell phone. What is the purpose? And making sure that they have a reason. I think parents can feel drug into the topic of getting their kids a cell phone. So, for them just to be able to know that it’s okay and good to step back and say, okay, why am I doing this? 

What’s my goal? What do I want to do with it? What’s my purpose? I think you’re exactly right, Brian. I know for myself, I feel like there’s a hand on my back pushing me towards cell phone use of my kids. I know it’s inevitable they’re going to need one, whether I like it or not. And I think parents as a whole are feeling that way. 

And I wonder how many are giving the cell phone in good conscience. Is it against their will, even if truth be told? And so, this conversation is right on key to help us wade through those waters. Absolutely it is. And that’s where you just want to acknowledge that you feel that pull, you feel that push and say, okay, what do I want to do? 

How do I want to attack this? And how do I use this as an opportunity to connect with my child? How do I use this as an opportunity to teach them and use it as something to bring growth rather than division? And kind of separating mom and dad from kids and feeling like you’re in foreign land with them. 

Proverbs remind us from that lens of train up our child in the way that they should go, and we look at that word train, and that’s an active word, and it engages mom and dads with their kids and to be able to use this concept here. Technology, a cell phone is just a specific piece, but we can use it as moms and dads to teach our kids so many things and so many lessons. 

And I think the foundation piece in this to remember is that these are moms and dads. This is a great opportunity for us to engage in our kids about something that’s very important to them. Very relevant. Yeah. And I think one of the things that’s interesting about what you just mentioned there, Craig, is that if we can start early enough to think about this concept, talk with our kids about this concept. It really puts the parents in the driver’s seat instead of where I think a lot of parents feel like the kids are in the driver’s seat. If we have a plan, we’re intentional and purposeful. It gives parents the opportunity to sit down and say, okay, what are the rules? 

What are we going to do with this? And how do we use this as an opportunity to bring our kids to us and something they’re excited about, but we get to set the parameters and use it as a teaching thing. So let me ask you how you would answer the question then to the parent that would say, ugh, I can’t talk to my kid about a cell phone because then that means I have to go buy them one if I talk to them about it. 

And absolutely if you bring it up, it’s going to feel like they’re going to get excited. They’re going to say, okay, well, when can I have it? That’s what they’re going to always come back to, win, win. But again, you’re in charge. You get to decide that, and you get to look at their maturity level. Are they ready for it? 

And have that discussion far before they’re actually going to step into that boat with them. And, you know, if all else fails, you can always call Craig Stickling, and he’ll get you out of the mess you’re in. Well, I think we have a lot of other technology in our homes, or our kids usually have things and how they handle those things is sometimes a good gauge for moms and dads to check out their responsibility level or to drive back the conversation with our kids about, as we get older, our responsibility level, we have to take care of things. And to be able to use that conversation to say, well, someday you might have your own laptop, or you might have your own cell phone or your own car. And as we have that conversation to help our kids look at when we have something, it’s wise to know how to take care of that and to be able to have that conversation with them, even in cell phone language.  

Yeah, and I think the concept that comes to mind there too in Scripture is just this idea that if you’re faithful in small things, then you’ll be given more and I think that concept, that principle applies here. If they’re not being faithful in chores, then are they really mature enough to be able to manage a cell phone? If they’re not able to limit how much time they’re playing a game on the computer and so on and so forth, are they really going to be able to manage a cell phone in a way that is going to follow godly biblical principles? Probably not. And that’s a great piece to bring into that discussion point with him and say, hey, if you want to move towards getting a cell phone, you’re going to have to show me responsibility and faithfulness in these smaller things before we’re going to move in that direction. 

So, I can see right now, you’ve provided some strong points for cell phone usage that I have maybe not considered as a parent. I could use it for teaching God’s Word for teaching good stewardship. So, what do you think the fundamental reason is that a student or a child wants a cell phone, and how does that differ from maybe the reasons a parent wants their child to have a cell phone? 

Well, I think in general, if you boil it right down, parents generally think of getting the cell phone as a way to have safety. Okay. That’ll give me some security and feel like Johnny or Sally will be able to call me if they need something. They’ll be able to let me know where they’re at. 

And so, from a parent’s perspective, they’re looking at it as safety and it helps give them some security about where their child is. I think children generally look at it as freedom and that’s what they want it for, and that’s what they feel like they’re getting. But I think you’re right, Matt. Those are two very different streams and it’s very important and good to be aware of both sides of that. 

What I think you mentioned is about freedom and especially the opportunity to connect with others. And boy, you just see in a school how many kids use their phones as a way to communicate and to connect with other kids. And so, I think that’s a strong piece in that and to be aware of that as mom and dad. 

Some kids might use it differently. More or less in that nature. But to be aware that’s a huge area where we can be setting the foundations and skills for our kids as they understand how this piece of technology allows them to connect with others. So, as I debrief what you guys have been saying here, a child thinking freedom. Parents think of some sort of certainty or security and know where my kid is at in communication. But there’s a middle stream here going that parents can monopolize on the spiritual guidance of our children with a cell phone because relationship is born in God, is it not? He is one with himself. And so, we are bent towards relationships. 

We are bent towards communication. Why? Because God speaks, and so we have now our latest device in this world to do both of those things. And so, there is much occasion for a parent to speak to God and speak and direct our children in the way of the Word with this device. Absolutely. I think even if I look back to my growing up, I remember dad being in the vehicle with me and my friends and him hearing our discussion and then afterwards he coaches me on saying, okay, that was a good thing to say there, or I appreciate what you said here. Or you might want to think about this biblical principle and how that fits into that discussion and follows that teaching. And parents feel like that’s lost with a cell phone, but if we can take that and say, okay, how do we use that same sort of teaching and step into that and use it in the cell phone? 

Hopefully still in the vehicle as well, but also on the cell phone and reviewing what’s been said or sitting in the same room with them when they’re on the phone with grandma and then afterwards downloading that conversation and talking about biblical principles and communication. 

Relationships are central to Scripture. We can see now that there’s benefit in the cell phone. And we’ve alluded to some of these things, but I would like you two to speak a little bit further on how I know if my child is ready. You know, we all have that age in our head, and certainly the kids know when their friends are having it, and sometimes that pressure comes from the outside in. 

So, I feel like the conversation here today is really putting the ownership back on the parent and the burden of responsibility on the parent. So, help us drive this thing. What should I be looking for in my children? When should I say, I think now is a good time to do that. So, responsibility is a big one. I think also, do they have any self-discipline? Are they able to do the chores when they’re supposed to? Are they able to go to bed when they’re supposed to? Are they willing to be obedient to mom and dad? And do they have the ability to put some restraints on themselves and follow the teaching, the guidelines, the boundaries that have been put in place by mom and dad? 

I think that’s the starting place. If they’re not able to do those sorts of things, then jumping into the deep end with a cell phone is probably not a good idea. To have this conversation early is probably better in terms of knowing they want to have a cell phone in a couple of years and their friends are having cell phones and these are a few of the things that I’m looking for. 

Right. To be upfront about that rather than wait and then all of a sudden say no because, and allow them to grow into that. Definitely. Is that fair? I would say so. I mean, I think in that sense, probably the kids are going to be coming to you that early anyways. You know they’re going to be. The conversation probably starts in middle school where their friends are starting to get cell phones and they’re wondering, okay, why don’t I have a cell phone? 

And you sit down, and you start having that discussion. You start talking with them about the things that you’d like to see them do to demonstrate that they’re ready. And depending on their maturity level, depending on the need for the cell phone those sorts of things would definitely go into that discussion of when. 

I think another benchmark to be looking at is since young kids use cell phones as a social connection to step back and look and see where are they at socially, how are they able to interact with kids, how are they able to solve if they have a conflict with a kid or a struggle with a kid, are they able to talk to you about it? 

Do they have good conflict resolution skills? Are they able to identify when there’s an issue with a kid and then how can they talk to the kid? Or are they able to come to you for advice? And being able to use that understanding of where your child is as far as how they relate to others. 

Because they will use their cell phone to connect with other kids. And we sometimes see a lot of struggles that kids have because they don’t have good social skills and they use the cell phone to try to get people’s attention. And that’s usually when things start to go south in a hurry. I think another thing about that is just to remember that parents don’t have to think about getting a cell phone for the child to start with. 

I mean, you can have a family phone that that could be used for times when the child needs to be able to call you after practice or call you after school or to you where you know about their evening at their friend’s house, so on and so forth. And again, that’s just another kind of step, a progression of thinking about and slowly wading into this water, not getting too deep, too quickly and making sure that they can demonstrate for you that they’re able to manage that. And are we ready to manage it as well? Are we having those conversations? Certainly, the cell phone is going to raise some sticky conversations. 

Am I right between parent and children? I mean, if we’re really going to take the initiative and be intentional about it by nature of the device, it is going to raise uncomfortable conversations. And are we having those conversations and are we plowing the ground to get ready for those conversations? 

The nature of our heart does not like to put limits to begin with. Our heart naturally desires everything immediately.  And you know, definitely in that mindset of giving an adolescent this piece of technology, they’re going to want it all right now and that’s a great conversation of how to help our kids look at the limits that go with that and the wisdom and the guidance in that as well. 

Should I be looking at how they’re using technology already available to them? I mean, most have a computer and there are games and things on that or a handheld device they’re playing games on. Does that filter into my rubric of when it’s time for a child? Absolutely. I mean, I think that’s a great marker that helps you see where they’re at and if they’re ready to move into more of a personal device, like a cell phone. And so, I think you’re exactly right. Looking at those things, recognizing how they’re doing with those things, and showing some maturity there, is a huge way of being able to evaluate if they’re ready. Well, I can’t help but take self-reflection upon my own cell phone use. 

As we talk about appropriate cell phone use of my children, and are they ready for it? I mean, and I’ll be the first to confess. I use it in very inappropriate times. I have been known to text and use my cell phone while I play ping pong with my son. Or in between while the kids are getting ready for bed, I’m supposed to be in their room when in fact, I’m sitting on their bed, putting them to bed, and I’m firing off a text. What image is that? What monster am I creating as an adult parent cell phone user that I’m going to be sending mixed messages? Speak to that. Well, I think it’s huge for parents to be able to be aware of how they use their cell phone and recognize if they can’t put limits on themselves and demonstrate and model appropriate social behaviors, social interaction, and just appropriate limits to their cell phone. It’s silly. It’s foolish to think that they’re going to be able to teach their kids in that direction. I think often of, Allison and I had this conversation, our kids go to bed and in the evenings, a lot of times we can both be on the cell phone after that. 

I feel like she’s on it too much. She feels like I’m on it too much, and I’m like, I’m not on it that much. And so, we are not even aware of how much we’re on it. And we have to be aware of that and be able to put some limits on ourselves as we think about this topic. 

Certainly, our children are watching us. Yes. And so, they know already. For us to tell them, well, no, that’s not what we do. And if we’re not even doing the same thing, you know, they’ve already been watching us in how we use our technology as well. And I think that self-awareness is so true. 

I mean, if you ask me how important the cell phone is to me. Oh, it’s just a tool. I mean, it’s just a device and I just use it, but oh, never mind, let me run back and get it. Even though I’m 20 minutes down the road, oh, I forgot my cell phone. And everything comes to a screeching halt. What we say and what we do are two different things. 

And right now, our children are building that concept of what a cell phone is. Yeah. And I think that comes into picture here. What is a cell phone is a part of this foundational concept in discussion. It’s interesting. I’ve seen even from some student lenses that you ask what is a cell phone? 

And it’s very interesting in this culture. Cell phones have become an extension of the person. They become a personality and extension of the child, and it’s almost like the cell phone becomes another way of advertising or promoting who I am as a child. And I think one of the lenses to look through is a child mature enough? There’s going to be some of that natural desire to do that, but do they have to get swept up in that and can they have good conversation, and can they understand that piece that I don’t have to have it all the time. 

And Craig, I think that’s an excellent point to conclude upon here today, because in subsequent podcasts we’re going to talk about some of the things that need to be taught in addition to the cell phone. As we look at mistakes and safeguards. Certainly, there are issues that we need to be thinking through and we’re going to follow that up. 

But for today, thanks guys for sharing your thoughts. I think I’ve certainly benefited from it. It’s been helpful and it’s given hope and growth for me. Thank you. And feel free if you’re interested and want to go to accounseling.org and click on the technology tab. You’ll find more resources and help when it comes to cell phone use. 

Welcome to the Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services Podcast. This is podcast two out of three on cell phone use. This is a conversation designed to help the hurting, nurture hope and encourage growth. The topic today is specifically about common mistakes and safeguards when it comes to cell phones and cell phone use among our children and how we navigate that as parents. 

With me again we have Craig Stickling and Brian Sutter. Welcome. Thanks for coming guys, and I am Matt Kaufman. We left off in our last podcast talking about what needs to be taught in addition to cell phone use. So, if I can use a silly example that I think we can all relate to sometimes you can travel someplace, be it Chicago, any other place, and if you were to ask really how you got there, you couldn’t really say, I don’t know how I got here. 

I navigated here. And so, we have lost a sense of navigation because of the navigator and the cell phone. That is maybe not worth our time to speak of because there are heavier matters of spiritual worth here today, but what needs to be taught to our young people alongside the cell phone because the cell phone is going to infringe upon it, and that is the opportunity to engage with people face-to-face.  

I think that’s a huge issue where it’s so easy to be comfortable just hiding in my own room, just engaging in technology thinking I’m socializing, but really I’m missing a huge piece that just comes from people to people and none of those things are beneath us. 

Is that what I’m hearing? Those things need to be handled with care because the cell phone would infringe upon it. Is that true? Absolutely. Yeah. We, you, you’ve got to do those teachings, and you have to build those skills. Because even though the cell phone doesn’t need those, those are huge skills for being able to be successful and being able to communicate with people, being able to develop connections. 

And if you can’t do that, then you’re going to really be limited in how you can even fulfill the Great Commission and so on and so forth, and be able to have deep, meaningful relationships as they grow. What are some other things that come to mind as something that needs to be guided alongside? 

I guess one thing that comes to mind is a verse that Alison and I’ve been working on memorizing right now is Proverbs 14:30 and it says, A tranquil heart gives life to the flesh. And I think the idea there is that with cell phones and technology, our mind and heart can just be so overwhelmed with information and stuff going on that it’s really important for us to be able to help our kids to have solitude, be able to have quietness and be able to be bored and manage that. And hopefully that can be something that they can tolerate. And I think that’s a great time when the Lord can speak to our hearts. And if we can’t sit in quietness and have our heart calm and our mind calm, we’re going to miss out on connection with the Lord. 

Do I push through that solitude? Craig, do you have thoughts on that? Well, just continuing in that solitude and even as it reflects our ability to be rested and to get rest and when that phone is sitting next to their ear all night long and notifications and buzzes and all things light up and all of that. There’s research that talks about how we are in the midst of a sleep deprived generation. Our kids are tired. And rest is such a foundational, scriptural concept, isn’t it? I mean, it’s replete throughout the Scriptures, the rest of God and be still and know that I am God. So, it speaks right to Scripture, great things to teach alongside. 

How about when it comes to connections? I mean, it would seem to me that you can fire a text off between a girl and a guy. And it could be the very first text that this guy sends this girl or whatnot, and they’re able to make connections that 25 years ago took a lot of gumption to do, right? 

Where maybe he would need to find her and speak to her in person. And it was awkward, and you had those social things that inhibited him from saying anything too intimate. And so, the relationship would seem naturally more slowly growing. Do we see an expediting of relationships and connections going at depths quicker with this technology? 

And what do we need to teach alongside that? Well, I think you’re right. I mean, when you’re able to communicate with somebody who’s not actually in front of you, it takes away the inhibitors and you can very quickly text or send something via post or something that’s very intimate, very inappropriate. Oftentimes it can ramp up a relationship from hardly knowing each other to going to the deep end of the pool. And there’s not this progression of being able to pursue somebody, being able to understand their heart, and in a culture that’s very sexualized, that turns into the end game. 

And you know, somebody can fire off a naked picture or picture that’s inappropriate, so on and so forth. And take a relationship from barely knowing somebody into the deep end of the pool, which is very damaging spiritually, socially, and emotionally, and really creates a lot of hurt. What are some of the teaching pieces, Craig? 

How do we help our children understand this dynamic? I think it’s very important that our children know what to expect and that we have this discussion with them ahead of time, even before they get their cell phone or as you look at a contract maybe with your cell phone and your child, that they’re aware that these type of situations can and probably will occur that someone might send them a text or a message or a photo and want some response, want some direction from them and to let them know already ahead of time, hey, when this happens, your heart or head, depending on how well you like or don’t like this person is going to direct you to do something. 

Now what do you do? And if you’re not sure what to do. Then what do you do? Will you come to mom and dad? Will you check in with us? Can we be there to support you? And I wonder even how much the lines are blurred on what is intimate. Oh, dad, I would never text this or text that, but texting somebody what color your socks are is intimate, right? 

So, it sounds benign. What color your socks are, but really, it’s information that only the people in your house would naturally know. And so, there’s a blurring of lines even on our radar screen of what is intimate and what is not intimate, what is appropriate, what is not appropriate. 

Who should know this information, who should not know this information and technology has driven not just words anymore. People don’t even spend time with words. It’s with pictures. And they’ll send a picture of their socks. They’re not going to take the time to describe their socks. I’m just going to take a picture of my socks and send it. 

So visual pictures have really become a replacement for word communication. And I think it all comes down to being able to communicate. Let’s say you were to sit down with a group of 20-year-old men and you were to say, could you sit down with your dad and have a deep, intimate conversation about your walk with the Lord and where you’re at with topics such as marriage or how your job’s going, who your peers are, what you are struggling with. 

If they’re honest, a lot of young men and females too would have a really hard time sitting down and having that kind of conversation with their parents. And I think to have that view for parents to say, if you can’t sit down and talk with your child when they’re 10 about what’s going on in school and challenges that are going on there, it is going to be really difficult for them to be able to have that conversation with their 20-year-old, 10 years down the road. 

And you want to start having those hard conversations, but you want to have those for the future. Let’s talk a little bit about what common mistakes you see that parents are making with cell phones and their children. Just what are the mistakes that you see that we could learn from? 

We get comfortable knowing my child has a phone, they’re safe, and they can text us or they can tell us. Hey, I’m going to be at Joe’s house for the weekend, or I’m going to be, you know, hanging out with friends at the lake. Or, you know what, we’re going to stay an extra hour and go shopping. And sometimes just because they send us that, we sometimes make the mistake of just saying, oh, okay, well then, I know where they’re at. 

That’s good. And sometimes we forget that we still have to do our parenting 101. It’s still good to check in. It’s still good to follow through. It’s still good to say, hey, if they’re going to be at Joe’s house on Saturday night, I’m going to call up Joe’s mom and dad. Hey, I heard you’re having the kids. 

Do you need anything? Just that follow up piece. It seems like in our distraction we have sometimes forgotten to do that piece. Excellent suggestion. I can see where that would be a place where we might fall down. Brian, how about you? Yeah, I think that’s very true. Just being able to follow through, do the sort of things you would do anyways. But also, just to remember, I think a common area that parents can fall into is either giving a phone too early when their children don’t have the skills to be able to manage a cell phone or waiting too late and frustrating their child by saying, nope, you’re not going to have it. You’re not going to get it until you get out of my home. 

And, you know, that’s going to frustrate them. And then number two, they’re not going to build the skills while they’re under your supervision under your roof. And Colossians speaks to that frustration. Fathers frustrate not your children, right? Yep. That’s a great way to frustrate your kids, you know? 

Have them be the only graduating senior without any technology, right? The cell phone puts them in a place where they have to make so many more decisions about so many more things. And I think one of the downfalls or sometimes a mistake is that we just kind of assume, well, my child’s always been a good kid, so I know that they’re not going to be doing this with the phone or looking up this, or having this [00:10:00] relationships or getting caught in this. 

And sometimes it’s easy I think, just to assume that, well, I trust my kid, they’re going to do well. And, and I think that’s, that’s a wise thing to go it’s okay to trust my child. But it’s still good for me to be going through with their phone and looking through and being aware and having conversation and following up with them and because there’s a lot of influences that come through the phone that have nothing to do with your child’s character, but it puts your child in a place that they have to respond and they need our help to navigate that. 

That’s leads us, I think, to an important question, Craig, and like to have you respond to this. What kinds of limits or safeguards should we be putting on children’s phones? I love the example just in driving. When we think of someone who’s learning to drive, I mean, they have to take a driver’s ed class before they even get behind the wheel experience. 

So they have to learn about what they’re going to be using. And then from there, they have an instructor who walks them through, rides with them, is side by side for an extended period of time. They have to log hour after hour with this instrument, a car, next to mom or dad. 

And then from that, once they get their license, they’re not allowed to be out at certain times. They’re only allowed to have so many passengers. And so it’s a progression piece and I think that’s a great model for technology use and to have safeguards with saying, my child can start off with a phone. 

But you know what, it’s a limited thing. You get to use it for maybe half an hour every day after school. Start with an hour on Saturday, increasing time as they demonstrate responsibility. I think that’s a powerful example. You look at the car, why is so much care taken into preparation for driving the car? 

Well, isn’t it the consequence and the power of the vehicle? Those things that have power we approach with trepidation, and I think we would be fools to say that the cell phone does not have power. Brian, what would you say? Well, I think with that, the perspective for parents to know that it’s not just a device to make phone calls, that this is a computer that gives them access to anything under the sun that they could ever want. 

If you don’t put any limits in place, it’s a device to do anything you can imagine. Therefore, parents have to have a plan, and they have to be able to set some things in place. I think a big mistake that oftentimes parents make is they give ownership of the phone to the kid too early. 

So, if you’re talking about a cell phone and giving it to them to use, that’s fine. Okay, let’s do that. But to give ownership to them needs to come way down the road. And as part of that progression that Craig’s talking about there, what are some practical things? Give us some ideas on what’s reasonable, something that kids would say. No parents are doing that right now.  

In your profession, you talk to a lot of parents and a lot of children share with us what parents are doing. Yeah. Well, I think first of all, remember that you don’t like limits any more than your kids do. And so, they’re not going to be very happy about this, but it’s not your job to keep them happy. They’re going to feel otherwise about that. 

But absolutely, you need to be thinking about starting off with them just being able to make phone calls. And the neat thing about cell phones these days is that you can put so many restrictions, so many limits, and you can strip it down, so it’ll just make phone calls. You can put limits in place that they can only view certain things or that they can’t download apps without a code and so on and so forth. 

And you need to put those in place and they’re extremely helpful. I love the fact that my wife is very good at engaging in technology and figuring those things out, and I am not. That’s not something I naturally desire to do. And so I’m thankful for her piece of that. And sometimes we talk with parents and they’re like, I don’t know what to do. Where do I even start with this phone? You’re getting the phone from a provider. That’s a great place to go. Talk to the provider when you get the phone and ask how to put limits and safeguards on this phone. Most cell phone providers have great websites, and you can learn so much right there about parental controls and how to limit data, time, when the phone will allow certain text messages to come through or not.  

You can block photos, you can block websites, you can block and put so many safeguards on the phone through your service provider. It’s amazing. And if you don’t even know what to do, I would say walk into your cell phone provider and bring the phone and hand it to the person and say I’m a parent in need. Tell me what I need to do. I love that. That breathes so much hope. Craig, when you say that breathes so much hope because we can talk about what’s lurking in the darkness and who’s in the opposing corner. It’s so nice to know that the service provider, in many ways is in the corner of the parent. 

They have a vested interest in the wellbeing of their clients and secular or not, they understand the dangers. Absolutely. And I think for parents to know that part of this, if they’re signing up to give their kids a cell phone, they’re going to have to be signing up for learning. It’s okay that you don’t know everything about how a cell phone works and use the provider’s resources. Use the technology experts in your congregation. Sit down with your kids and ask them how this app works or what’s going on with your friends? What are the big apps that are going on? How is it a good thing? Where have you seen it not be good? Have those discussions with them, especially early on. 

Kids are going to be excited to teach mom and dad about what’s going on. One more piece, just to follow up with this, is that we’re going to go back to the foundation piece. Even through mistakes we can teach and sometimes as moms and dads, we’re going to make mistakes but that’s okay. We can learn from the mistakes that help strengthen our awareness, our technology level. 

It bumps it up and that’s just going to bring a great model of teaching to our kids as well. And Craig, that’s a tremendous way to conclude today’s podcast. As we’ve talked about common mistakes in safeguards because where we would like to go in the next podcast is to really debrief. 

What do we do when things go wrong? What do we do as parents? When we found a text, when we found an image, when we’ve discovered that our children have not been walking in the light? And that’s a piece that parents are crying out to hear. So we’ll look forward to that. But as a conclusion today, thanks for listening. 

Thanks Craig and Brian, if you are interested in more information or if you want to review any of the concepts that were mentioned here today, please visit our website at accounseling.org. There you’ll find more resources. Have a great day. 

Welcome to the Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services Podcast. This is the third podcast of three podcasts on the very pertinent topic of cell phone use. Again, this conversation as always, is designed to help the hurting, nurture hope, and encourage growth. And today I think we’re really centering in on that nurturing hope with our topic. 

Our topic specifically is how do we handle cell phone usage when we find that it’s been abused? I can paint one example of a thousand, as you can imagine, and many youth parents have known firsthand that your daughter comes home with a text or an image or you find your sons with an image on their phone that is pornographic or otherwise, or you find that them not being upright and honest about the phone or using it to malign or to be hurtful to other people. And the list goes on and on. Obviously, we’re dealing with fallen being with a device such as the cell phone. So happy to have Craig Stickling and Brian Sutter with me. 

Again, I am Matt Kaufman and interested in this conversation. Craig, I’d like to turn it to you first. What should parents do when they find out their child is misusing their cell phone. Well, this is going to be the easiest answer to this question, and that is take them back to your contract. Speak to us a little bit more about the contract. 

It’s been alluded to in previous podcasts but carefully walk through the contract. Certainly, at the Verizon or ATT store there’s a contract there, a hoop that they have to step through. What do you mean by the contract? Craig? Again, as we reflect back on some of our earlier discussions, the cell phone is a great opportunity to teach our kids in many elements, in many ways. 

And what the contract does is put those principles on paper, puts those principles in place that a child and a parent is able to go back to and refer to and  be able to learn and to grow through their use of the cell phone. Yeah. And I think with the contract you’re going to want to have it in place already. 

I mean, I think that’s ideal. So, to be clear, this is a contract above and beyond Verizon’s contract. This is a contract that we as parents create. Is that right? You bet. Okay. Exactly. So, we’ve got a lot of freedom in this, and we need to be thinking, oh, what should I be putting in my contract? 

So, this is a contract that we create. Am I right? Exactly. Okay. Yeah. That parents sit down with their kids and think about and this is ideally again, before the cell phone is purchased and say, what are the things that you are agreeing to? What are we both agreeing to? Such as when you’re going to turn the phone in at night, and what time you get it back in the morning and that you’re going to answer Mom and Dad’s calls or give them a call back. 

Those sorts of things. And I think, Craig, you’ve got one right in front of you that has a few other specifics, but you’re going to want to have specific things in a contract that you’re agreeing to, that your child’s agreeing to before this even takes off the runway. I have some examples. You can find many of them. 

This one here will also be available on our website as well, but there are many out there. I like how this one hits some important pieces that are good for all contracts to include. I really like how this contract starts off. It starts off with congratulations, which it is. It’s an exciting time for our kids. You are now old enough and have proven yourself responsible enough to be the owner of a cell phone. But acceptance of this phone comes with certain responsibilities. The goal of this agreement is to help you become a well-rounded person who can coexist with technology, not be ruled by it. 

And so, we look at this idea of a contract. I love how that just puts on the teaching hat and says, I want my child, I want my son or daughter to be able to learn. As I listen to you, Craig, talk about the contract, immediately lights go on in my head about the covenant we have with Christ. Isn’t that what the Old Testament and the New Testament are? But there’s a slight difference between a covenant and a contract where a contract is built off of distrust since I don’t think you will, and a covenant is built on trust. And so, as I listen to you, Craig, I hear parents saying, honey, I trust that you will not. 

I trust that you will not, and what an opportunity to convey to our children the powerful trust covenant we have with Christ. And as we were provided the Bible, to have continuous opportunity to go back and read and reread and to learn and to be taught again, having something down on paper, these principle points down on paper, reminder points for what we talked about is important for our child’s responsibility. So, I think that’s why it’s important to have a physical contract signed by you, signed by your child that they are able to look at and go back to from time to time. 

Speak to some of the specifics of the contract. There are lots of principles in many different contracts and Brian and I will just go through some out of the contract that we have here that will also be available online. A couple points here I want to go through. First one is that you will know your child’s phone password and that you will have access to be able to look through your child’s phone pretty much at any time that you desire. 

That’s a strong point to have in a contract. Yeah, I think another really important part of a contract would be an agreement of when a cell phone is in the child’s possession and when it’s in the parent’s possession. So, when they get home, it goes to Mom and Dad, and they get it back at this time in the morning. Another important thing to look at is that we want our child to have a cell phone so we can reach them. There’s nothing more frustrating than trying to call your child for hours and hours and they don’t respond back. So, one of the agreements is you have the phone, it’s on you. When Mom and Dad call, that’s like priority. You answer right away, or you call them back as soon as you can. That’s another important piece. Yeah.  

Another one would be just making sure that no inappropriate material or text is sent. That could be photos, text messages, or even phone calls. Making sure that there’s an agreement that nothing inappropriate is said or sent via the phone. Another agreement piece that follows up with that one, Brian, is what happens if my child receives that on their phone? Lots of stuff gets sent that a child is perfectly upright and doesn’t know what to do with it. I have found in my experience with talking to kids at school, the number of kids that won’t go to their mom and dad because they got sent something and they’re afraid to, because they don’t want to lose their phone. 

So, to have a piece in there about that contract that says, I will go to my mom or dad if I am receiving something or someone is sending something, or I’ve become part of a conversation that is very uncomfortable, and I know there’s something wrong about that. And I think another just good general point that fits in would be just a specific agreement that says you’re going to follow good social etiquette. 

So, for example, they maybe can’t use the phone while they’re in church or the phone is put in a box or put away during supper time or when you go over to grandma’s house. These sorts of things and have an agreement of the specific times that they can’t have the cell phone or can’t use the cell phone. 

And especially as we wrap up here, a piece that looks at when our kids are driving and just to have a piece in that just emphasizes the element of not texting while they’re driving. So that’s an important piece to have brought in. So, as we reflect now. On the initial question of what do we do now when they’ve violated the contract? 

How should a parent process what some consequences may be, and I know there’s not a one size that fits all but help us move through that hurt from a parent’s perspective because this has been built on trust. That’s what the covenant is about, is built on trust and, and my trust has been betrayed. 

Absolutely. And I think with that going in, that parents should expect that. Unless their child has been converted and changed, that they’re dealing with an unregenerate heart and it’s likely therefore that they’re going to push the bounds and maybe push against your contract. And therefore, it’s a great opportunity to have a window into their heart that we as godly parents are called to more than just raising up good kids.  

We are called to pointing our children to Christ. And being able to put crosshairs on their heart and recognize what’s going on inside and a cell phone is a great way to be able to see that because we get a view behind their behavior. So, I think a great place to start with is you don’t want to catch them doing wrong. But it’s a blessing if we catch them early, expose their heart to the truth and the light of Christ. But let’s not be naive if they’re unregenerate, like you mentioned. If they’re unsaved, certainly we have forces acting against us. Right? 

No question. Trying to pull them into the weeds, pull us in the weeds and we’ve just got to be aware of that and like you said, not be naive and not put our head in the sand. And I think something you mentioned earlier, Craig, is just this, we’ve got to check in. You’ve got to be going over the contract, checking their phone, doing the due diligence of ongoing parenting, and not just saying, oh, it’ll be okay, or I’ve got a good kid. 

No, you need to be checking and when you check, eventually you’re going to find something that’s not exactly the way you want it to be. Probably a good thing to do is, after the contract, we want to establish into the hearts and into the minds of our child. And so that doesn’t happen when we get a piece of paper and have them sign it, and then we stick it in some drawer for a year or two. 

But really, when our child first gets the cell phone, it would probably be very wise to, okay, we got the cell phone on the 12th of December. Okay, on the 12th of every month, we are bringing out this agreement, this contract again, and we’re going to talk through it. Is there anything that we need to change? 

Anything we need to add? Let’s go through each point. How has it been? How has it been? And using it to be able to come back to often that really sets in their mind and heart the significance of some of the points in the contract. Yeah. And then when you do, when you find something that’s out of line, to be able to have the wisdom to take a few minutes before you figure out what you’re going to do. Get on the same page with your spouse because it’s likely that one of you is going to be ready to tie a rock to their leg and throw them in the river. Somebody else is going to be ready to throw the cell phone in the river, you know, and it’s frustrating when that trust is broken, no doubt. But you have to take some time, have some wisdom, and not respond so harshly that you sever relationships, but also not ignore it either. And finding that balance is a tricky thing for parents. And to your point, Brian, this is a window into their heart, and we have a very narrow discussion now, whether it be pornography, bullying, or time usage in addressing issues of the heart. 

But now give us some help. Is it wise to confiscate? Is it wise to say, well, I’ll take the phone now for a week, or am I going to back off your apps or your liberties within the phone? Help us sort through some of our options. Well, I think we look at it from our role as parents and our role as providing discipline, the instruction, the correction model for our kids. Cell phones aren’t this new category that we have to scratch our heads and wonder what do we do? This is really just a piece of the parenting umbrella of what we would do. We could maybe talk about some specifics, but I think it’s good to remember that Scripture already talks about creating frustration in our kids. And sometimes when we surprise them with the consequences, alright, you’re losing your phone for the next year because of this. I think it’s wise that even if we have to tweak it down the road that our kids know up front, you know what, if there’s a certain violation of one of these principles, I will probably have your phone for a week. 

And then we’re going to have some standards in place, and we’ll see how you do, and then we can have a chance for discussion to earn it back. If it happens again, you know, it might be two weeks, or we might limit your time, or we might do this, but in the specifics of that, I think it’s important that our child knows ahead of time there’s going to be a set consequences that’s going to involve either a reduction of phone time, or you’ll have the phone removed for a certain amount of time. 

Each incident that occurs? Yeah, absolutely. I think it depends too, on their age. So, let’s say they’re just starting off with a cell phone and they mess up. Absolutely. You’re going to take the cell phone for a week, you’re going to maybe tighten the restrictions and then, you know, give them the opportunity to show responsibility and earn those things back as they go. 

But if you’re talking about, let’s say an 18-year-old who’s had a cell phone for several years. They’ve been pretty faithful and all of a sudden, you know, they mess up. Now we’ve got something on the table. To take it a week from an 18-year-old may not be real wise, and you just have to determine where they’re at, determine what they’ve done. 

That situation might look a little bit more like, okay, now what we’re going to do is every day, at the end of the day, we’re going to check your cell phone and we’re going to put an app on your phone that allows us to see everything that you’re going to do and we’ll put that in place for three months. And so, it depends a little bit, I think on, on their age and what they’ve done but for parents not to be afraid to step in and say, this is out of line and we’ve got to do something. 

What that looks like, I think varies depending on what they’ve done and their age. Isn’t this a Scripture in Hebrews, whom the Lord loves, he chastens? Right. Chastening with everyone and to have that love permeate and for our children to realize that. And it’s so clear, isn’t it? Because we love them. 

I mean, it’s a very dangerous tool if this is left unchecked and this is left uncorrected. And so, all of these things done in love go without saying but should be. Oh, absolutely. And I think too, for parents, again, if they model right behavior. Hey, you know what? I feel like I’ve been on my phone too much, or, I’ve been on Facebook too much and I’m going to take a fast for the next week. That you tell your kids when you’re doing that sort of stuff, recognizing that you can get pulled into it as well, and that you need to be chastened too by the Lord. You need to have your spouse that can correct you and give some input in and that you’re not just running free either, and that you recognize that’s out of love. 

What a powerful thing, right? Yeah. If a husband leaves his phone there on the counter at 8:30 every night and it’s understood that mom has a chance to sort through it. Then he going to his son and asking for the same is much more palatable. Craig, what do you think? I like the idea that directs me back to one of the sentences in the contract where it says, I want my child to become a well-rounded person who can coexist with technology, not be ruled by it. 

And to be able to be reminded of that is when we have to have the phone near us every minute and are always checking it. We have now become ruled by technology, and we want our children to learn how to coexist, be able to have it when it’s appropriate, but also to be able to say, I don’t need it in these situations, and to not be ruled by it. 

And we get to set that example. Speak to that parent who’s desperate. No doubt there are parents right now that are hearing this and they feel like it’s out of control. They feel like, well, we didn’t set that contract. I know that they’ve been enticed to this and that. And yeah, I think the thing that I would say is it makes sense that you would feel overwhelmed. It makes sense that you’d feel sorrow for that. And you wake up and realize, boy, there’s some things I should have done differently. I think we all feel that one way or another, but also to know to move on from there and not be overwhelmed by sorrow. You know, like it talks about there in Corinthians. And now for you to step in and say, okay, this is where we’re at. It’s not where I want to be, but what’s one small step that I can take to move towards a different place. And that might be just a simple sit down with your 17-year-old and say, hey, this is what’s going on. I feel like I’ve let you down. I’ve got to figure out what to do to step in here and help you. What do you think that looks like? And just starting with a conversation going from there. A repentant heart teaches so much. We get to teach our kids even through that example to say, I’m sorry. Oh, if I could do this over, I would do it differently. 

But I know today that I want to do something different and I want you to be part of that. So, let’s look at how we can do this together, where we can bring glory to God through the use of this. I don’t want this to separate us. I want this to be something that we can work together with. So, let’s take a look at some things here. I’ve got some ideas I’d like to share with you.  

I love that. And I hear love and that display towards your children, and I hear hope, and that’s what we want. And we have hope in Christ. Right? To be able to model repentance, as you mentioned, to be able to allow grace to be paramount and to have a child come to an understanding of their depravity and of their need for Christ is a wonderful outcome that we have in a situation like this. Is that right? Absolutely. And I think in that, to remember that it’s not the parent’s job to make them turn to Christ. It’s the parent’s job to be faithful to their role. And that’s the thing to step in and say, okay, I feel like I’ve let it down, but now it’s my job just to engage the role and then Christ does the work from there.  

Absolutely. And I think hopefully that’s a message of hope for the parents too, that our God is big enough for the human heart, praise God for that. You know, our heart is big enough for our rebellious teenager and with God on our side there’s always hope. There’s always something to look forward to, and it’ll be exciting to see how God works in that young man or young lady’s heart and brings them to an understanding of grace. It’s never too late to start doing the right thing. And even if we’ve learned over time that there are some things I can do differently, you know what, sufficient to the day is the grace thereof. 

So, we get to start that day and with our learning, we get to put some things in place where sin abounds grace does much more abound. So, here we have come full circle as we talk about being intentional and the foundations of cell phone usage. As parents, we’ve walked through some safeguards and some mistakes that can be made, but we’ve been coached along the way on how to view this device as not merely carnal, but spiritual. 

And that I think provides a great deal of hope, certainly for me and for our listeners. Thank you so much for joining us and listening. We pray that you have been helped, and you have been encouraged towards hope and towards growth. If you need to find additional resources or be put in touch with resources that we have, please visit us at accounseling.org. 

Click on the technology tab and you will find some of those resources that we’ve commented on the contract and otherwise. Thank you, Craig and Brian, for being with me here today. This is Matt Kaufman. Have a great day.