Launching Our Kids Podcast Episodes

Greetings and hello, this is Matt Kaufman, the host of Breaking Bread. I’m glad to bring you today’s podcast. I regret that some of the audio quality is not as excellent as I would like. So, I apologize for that. Thank you for understanding. I have heard one lady say, that in growing up, her mother told her, if you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all. 

And so, as a result, she grew up not learning a lot of things because she couldn’t do it perfectly. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. It is great to have you along. Today’s topic is about launching kids, and I’ve got as guests, Roger Gasser and Craig Stickling, both of which have launched kids. 

So, we’re happy to have this conversation with you both. Roger, why don’t you share, what in the world do I even mean by launching kids? We spend much of our time, much of their upbringing, helping them to find roots but then the purpose of that is to help them find wings so that they can go on their own. 

That’s what I think. Roots and wings. I really like that, Roger. Roots and wings. Craig, what would you add to that? Yeah, I would say as some people look at this launching concept, Matt, that they’re looking at can my child be a productive, contributing member to society, right? Are they able to have a job? Are they able to keep relationships? 

Are they able to grow spiritually? Are they able to just make the transition from people just doing for them to them being able then to do for themselves and also then do for others in that sense? What would be some of the earmarks then that we would look for in building this readiness or this launching of the individual? 

I kind of like three lenses. One looks at just behaviors, okay? So, what are they doing? And so, for behaviors that we do what we do because we think what we think, so that’s tied into their thinking. So, their thought and behavior, you know, that’s an earmark of how is their thinking and then how do they respond to their thinking? 

So, what’s their behavior? Okay. The next piece, a huge one, is handling emotions. That’s a powerful time at that teen age, and the emotions and figuring that out, that speaks very loudly. And so, how are they able to regulate emotions and manage their emotions? And then that last piece looks at the spiritual link. 

What is their depth? What is their understanding of God? What do they understand about the plan of salvation, about God’s design for them to live for him and their understanding of what that looks for their life? I like those three earmarks as starting spots, as looking at that launching piece. 

I really like that. Those make a lot of sense. Rog, what would you add to that? I like the idea of earmarks. I think there are three things parents need to keep in mind as our children begin to leave the nest and one of them, a big one, is we’re just stewards of our children. We’re not the owners. God owns them. 

And so, they’re just under our stewardship for a little while. And that means that we should not be able to dictate their beliefs, their thoughts. That’s God’s prerogative. And then the second thing, God has thought about that child’s future a lot longer than we have. I mean, if we understand Psalm 139 correctly, and Jeremiah 29, for sure, that he’s had them in his sights since before creation. 

And so who are we to try to think that our children should be doing this such and such at a certain time because God has that under his control. And then finally, that we’re workers together with him. 2 Corinthians 6:1, because we are working with God on this project. He’s in charge of it. Remember, we’re just stewards. 

So, I have to comment on the balance that both of you brothers have provided in this address of this topic. Craig, your address, as a parent, really made me think, alright, now these are the things I need to be thinking about. With my young person and bringing them to this point of launching. 

Obviously, I do have a role to play here. I mean, their behavior, emotions, spiritual, all of these things. And then Roger, your encouragement helped alleviate a little bit of my responsibility and helped me understand my responsibility in that I am a steward. And that God has purposes and those types of things. 

And I think both of these need to go hand in glove, don’t they? And one without the other puts us in a pretty unhealthy spot to launch. That’s correct. Launch kids. And I would love to move forward with both of these in hand. And now let’s talk a little bit about what we’re seeing. Craig, I’d like to go back to your emphasis on maybe unprepared youth for adulthood. 

You work with young adults as a career. Is this something that you see? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Matt. And I don’t know, maybe every generation can speak into this or to talk about this, but what a hard time to be a kid. We look at a culture that has minimized their significance, right? And really, we don’t expect much out of them. 

Replace everything with an academic focus, which is important and needed. But we really have stopped expecting things out of them. The lack of accomplishing chores or being a productive member of the household with what they’re asked to do. You know, society doesn’t value that or expect that. 

They’re filled with this world of technology that allows them to dismiss and disengage so easily, so quickly and not just them. Obviously, we can speak to ourselves as well in that. And so, we have this society that doesn’t expect much out of them and then technology and their world allow them to escape. And so, it’s a hard place for them to be at. 

And so, we really need to encourage them to step up to the plate, not because we want them to, but because God has created them to be who they are and to explore that. And this makes it important that as parents, we let them fail. I have seen, Brother Craig has also seen this, no doubt, helicopter parents that try to micromanage every aspect of their children’s lives and to prevent them from failing. And actually, that should not be our goal to prevent our kids from failing. Some of that is an issue of pride for parents. Look at my kids, they have made all the correct decisions and they’re doing everything exactly right. Whereas what we want to have happen is when the child reaches adulthood, they have some practice in making wrong choices, and so it should not be the goal of a parent, I don’t think, to prevent the child from making any bad mistake, because when they make a mistake as a young person, the consequence is there, but it’s not as severe nor as permanent as a bad choice when they’re 30 or 40 years old. 

Roger. I completely appreciate that. And I think you’ve just spoken to a really difficult tension to maintain. At what level do we protect, and do we hedge and shelter kids, I think is an important conversation to have. But I want to add another scenario, Roger, to what you’ve just said, and that is not only failure, but here’s what I’ve also found. 

Do we let our kids get hurt by this world? It’s not their mistake. They didn’t make it as a parent. Do I step in on that? Or is that part of the exercise as well to say, yep, you’re going to have a boss like that. Yep. You’re going to have a supervisor like that. Yep. You’re going to have a teacher like that. Yep. You’re going to. And I find this is an interesting tension also. And I have heard one lady say that in growing up, her mother told her, if you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all. And so, as a result, she grew up not learning a lot of things because she couldn’t do them perfectly. 

Right. Like her mother expected it right the first time. And so, I think that it’s necessary to intervene. However, I do believe, and it’s an African proverb that says it takes a village to raise a child. There is some wisdom to that because the village that is raising the child is going to be other teachers, it’s going to be police officers, it’s going to be cafeteria workers, it’s going to be other employers, and we cannot totally shield the child from their bad behaviors. And the better choice, I think, is to process with a child what just happened. I recall seeing one of our children in a ball pit, and he was besieged with balls and was looking to me as to what he should do since this bully pelted him with balls, and I think that’s a model for us that we need to explain how to respond. 

And when somebody is just having fun, and when they mean it ill, I think there’s a lot of mind reading that goes on. So, in that moment, if I understand that you watched a moment where your child was being bullied or being threatened or being picked on, and you had a moment, a decision, do I step in? 

What does stepping in look like in this moment? What is the learning that needs to happen in this moment? And so, I am really interested to know how you handled that, Roger. Was part of your lesson to say, this is how we handle situations like this, or this is how we stop situations like this? Because those are two different things. 

I think the lesson is how to handle it, because the situation, although different, will be repeated many times in that child’s life. And so, learning to handle somebody being overbearing is a better lesson than learning how to stop it. I mean, I could intervene and stop the other bully, but that’s not going to help. 

What if I’m not around the next time? I mean, most likely I won’t be. And so, our lesson needs to be how to deal with situations like this when dad’s not around. Yeah, I think it’s wise to remember that our kids always will have an opportunity to learn, right? And we want to make sure they learn the right lesson, even from the good models, even from those good examples, those good friends, those good parents, the good teachers. 

You know, early employer, the good friends that they have, but also that they’re able to learn from the ones who aren’t that way, who aren’t so good, who maybe don’t quite have the same thoughts or ideas or beliefs or actions or behaviors that they do, and that they’re able to learn from those. I appreciate that, Roger. 

You shared your story. What I captured out of that was that when something happened to your child, where did your child look? That’s what I like. Your child looked to you. And I think that is a huge part of growth with our kids. And we don’t wait until they’re 17 to start that process. That starts right when they come home from the hospital. 

And so, to be reminded that a launching sequence of a 17, 18-year-old really begins when they come home, when we have them as little babies. And so, to be reminded of the beauty of that. Yeah, but what I really like is our kids are looking to us per the illustration that Roger gave. Are they going to look to us to solve? 

Or are they going to look to us to help them navigate and learn from the situation? And I think for me in this conversation, that’s been a healthy switch in my mind. When my kids look to me, I need to help them learn from the situation. That’s what they most need as opposed to solving an unwanted or unliked circumstance. 

Is that fair to say? Am I thinking correctly? That is correct. I would agree with that. Yeah. As I was reflecting on some of this, I thought of my dad in his era. It wasn’t natural or maybe the upbringing to focus a lot on complimenting your kids. And so, I wouldn’t say that I got a lot of compliments from my dad, but he was huge on giving me opportunities. 

And I love that even as a little boy, he gave me opportunities to make things, to do things, to go to work and to have responsibility and to do it well sometimes and to not do it well and to learn from those consequences. So, I was so grateful that I had so many opportunities to learn to ask questions, to see others do that, that learn from others. And so, I love that I was given opportunities. I feel like we’ve talked here about parenting and preparing youth for the launching process. I’d love to hear your perspective on what it looks like. Maybe during the launching process, is there a pulling away that we as parents need to do? 

What does this proper interaction look like when maybe they are a young adult or freshly out of the house? Help us steward this area. Roger, what are your thoughts on that? I think that it’s a parent’s responsibility to always love, always be there, but understand that the young person is going to outgrow their parents. I mean, I take that as not a denigration of our duties, but I think God has in mind for them something that I have not thought of, most likely. And so, it’s quite presumptuous on my part to assume that God is going to lead them in the same way that I’ve been led, and in not trying to make their lives mere images of ours. 

In order to experience God the way I have experienced him, they need freedom to be able to make choices. I want to put my finger on perhaps the challenge of that, and then would love to hear both you and Craig respond to it. And what I am thinking and I’m wondering is, did you have to give up some hard things to do that? 

And when I say give up some hard things, I mean, did you have to endure some losses? Did you have to say, I expected this, and I got that, and I’ve worked it through and processed that. So, my direct question is, have you been disappointed and have had to work through that disappointment? I think the things as parents that we give up are not anything worth keeping. I think there’s pride involved in a lot of parenting. I remember when my children were toddlers and I thought that was the only time in my life that I thought I knew what to do, what parenting was about and then reality set in and they became older and I realized that I didn’t know nearly as much as I thought I knew and so it’s a loss of pride if they make choices that are contrary to the choice I would have made. If we expect to control that child, our world gets smaller and smaller and smaller because we don’t want them to be influenced by somebody else. 

And in fact, we need them to be influenced by somebody else. There’s a thing called dependency and there’s a healthy dependency and an unhealthy dependency. And we want them to be able to reach out for help, rather than saying, I can do everything myself, I don’t need anybody around. I really love that, Roger. 

And I’m smiling right now because of the humility that you portrayed in that sentiment about the humility of parenting. Healthy and unhealthy dependency, I want to come back to that, Roger, but before I don’t want to lose the point with Craig. Speak to this concept of parents giving up control and build on the humility that requires, but also the loss that you might endure with your paradigms. 

Yeah, absolutely. Does that make sense? Yeah. And I would even tweak and say, it’s more than just giving up control, it’s replacing it. What am I replacing my control with? Something else, right? And so yes, I do give that up, but it doesn’t go into this completely void neutral state, but it’s a replacement piece. 

And you know what, just as an imperfect person, you bet I have been hurt. I have been disappointed in things that my children have said and done, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re older, even younger and recognizing that’s not how I taught you or that’s not what we’ve talked about. 

That’s not what your mom modeled to you. That’s not how we are. And those things have happened as they’ve grown and adjusted and challenged to their walk and independence and maturing process. And yet there’s been in the hurt of that, in that giving up hurt, I then have to make a decision. 

What do I do with that? Do I get out the chisel and hammer and come back and say, well, obviously I just need to hammer out or chisel out on you more or harder to get you to be more what I think I want you to be, versus that exchange piece, that replacement piece of acknowledging, wow, that’s not where I would like to see things, but you know what? 

I can trust a bigger process. I can trust that God is directing them as well and that God has them in a different season and state and that it may not be exactly where I’m at, but I can replace that confidence in God’s love for them that, okay, maybe this is part of their journey. Maybe this is part of where they’re at and how do I come alongside of them instead of just getting out a bigger hammer and a bigger chisel to say, okay, I just need to do some more work on that. 

And this is where I’m going to cut in on today’s conversation. When we return, we’re going to find out that there is a role that community plays in both launching and receiving our kids. We look forward to having you with us. 

We are not launching our children into islands. We’re launching them into a community where they will also find pasture and go in and out and the sheep in a pasture that they will be able to make it with the benefit and blessing of other people. Welcome to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. 

I am very glad to air the second part of my conversation with Craig Stickling and Roger Gasser on launching kids, and there has to be some uniqueness here, right? What works for one kid doesn’t work for another, or some kids just need to learn the hard way. Is that a fair statement? They’re going to get to the healthiest place and, like Roger mentioned, learn how to fail. Now, other kids, they’re kind of like okay, I won’t make that mistake. Isn’t there a difference there? There is a difference. I appreciate that insight, Matt, that God has created our kids differently, and I love in the sense of, some people say, oh, God’s sense of humor, He gives us kids that are so different sometimes. 

And some require so much hands on. Some require more hands off. Some require more verbal instruction. Some require just more physical attention and contact with them. And they’re so different in that. And I think that’s a great moment and opportunity for us as we look at the differences of our kids and that we learn that our kids are different and how to speak into that. 

Yeah. Roger, you had dropped the term healthy and unhealthy dependency. Can you flush that out a little bit more? I think parents are wondering, okay, yes, is this unhealthy dependency? Okay. And one of the things that’s healthy is for the child to ask for help when they need it. The idea is that we want to raise children that are willing to ask for help. 

There are others which would be if we’re easily influenced by someone else’s opinions or attitudes, that’s unhealthy because we’re going about trying to please everybody. And this is impossible to do, of course, but in our ignorance, we sometimes try to do it. We think we can please everybody. It’s impossible to do. 

A piece that you mentioned, Roger, that is really captured in life was you talked about for our kids to be able to ask us for help and that process, right? That’s a process. That’s an action step that’s followed with. Okay, so what’s what happens inside of our kids’ brain to trigger them to say, I have a situation scenario I’m trying to problem solve. How do I get resources and support that? And I think a great way that we’re able to do that is to recognize that for them to ask questions is something that we model to them. And I think this launching time, this launching step, moving that healthy dependence piece is a great time for parents to say, okay, I’ve been pouring into my kid. 

And so instead of stepping in and saying, okay, here’s what you need to do. I step back and ask the question. Well, what do you think? What do you think we should do about that? What would you do? How would you handle this situation? And so, we stop with the automatic poor response. We’re not just a fountain machine, but we start to ask questions to them. 

I really like that, Craig. What you’re saying is we launch kids; we should interact with them like they’re adults. So, I’d like to ask this question, and I think that our young people will roll their eyes if we start to quote, well, when Grandpa was 18, he was on a different continent in the service. Do we need to reframe expectations, given our day and age, given our cultural climate? 

I think that speaks well to knowing what is the reality that our kids are in, and being able to be open with that, Matt, and that allows us to speak into their world. And there are absolutely great times to share our experiences, right? But that will mean more to our kids if they know that we know their world. 

And every time they come to us, or every discussion isn’t just about, well, when I was your age, I was milking 40 cows, and you don’t. And it’s like, okay, that has a point, but it means more if they know that we know their world and that we can speak about their world. And so, bringing that blend and balance is important. 

I love that. What I would like to go back to is a definition of adulthood given by Dr. Henry Cloud. And we sometimes use the book Changes that Heal. For someone that is having trouble becoming an adult. And here’s the definition he gives, becoming an adult is the process of moving out of a one up, one down relationship and into a peer relationship with other adults, we do want our children to relate. 

It’s a process of learning how to relate to other adults as an adult, rather than always being one down. And so, that’s a gradual process. Our children begin to see that they have worth. They have experience. When you talked about the world they’re growing up in, everybody has gifts. They have them as well as we. 

And so, it only makes sense for us to learn healthy dependency on them as well as they learn healthy dependency on us. Yes. I think one word that comes up with this launching concept is independence. I think that’s a term that we throw around helping them be independent. Kids want to be independent and tease this out a little bit, Craig, how should we be thinking about independence? 

Yeah. That’s a great word, Matt. If I would walk into a classroom and say, all right, how many of you want to be independent? I think every hand would go up. That’s kind of that key that gets me out of adult authority, right? I’m independent. I don’t have to do what other people tell me. And yet independent is really incomplete. 

I love some of the work by Dr. Gary Chapman as he talks about this word independence and he partners it with responsibility and that independence is vital, but it also needs to have a sense of responsibility with it as well. I really like that. Going back to Roger, your quote about a village, and kind of working that statement out and teasing that concept out, making a case that a community is really, really critical in this launching process. After all, where are they being launched to? They’re not being launched to an abyss. And Craig, you mentioned replacing control. It’s not just giving up control, it’s replacing it. And there is a replacement of our roles to those of others. And so, I’d love to hear your thoughts on the role of the church place.  

We are launching our kids into a community for them to participate, for them to contribute, for them to continue to learn, to take responsibility. And so, I do think this launch process has a lot to do with church. What are your thoughts on that? We are not launching our children into islands. 

We’re launching them into a community where they will also find pasture and go in and out as sheep in a pasture that they will be able to make it with the benefit and blessing of other people. Yeah. Which raises my own adult responsibility, Roger, that I am part of the launching of youth, not just my own. 

I think some would say there is a launching crisis, depending on how you want to define it. And we all wax pretty eloquent about how other people should be launching. I need to be a part of the launching answer to not only my own children, but to youth. Am I a contributing member in this community to receive them, to give them feedback, to ask questions, to participate as an adult? 

Craig, as you encouraged us. God has created in us the desire for relationships. And Matt, as you spoke about this, the role of the church is really where that comes in. That lesson continues, that relationship continues to be, to grow throughout our entire life. 

And the church is the beautiful answer to where do we get to do that? We’re workers together with him. I really like that. And I think we’ll close on that because I think we’ve started, both of you brought two questions, critical concepts to the table here in this conversation about launching kids. 

One was a responsibility to their behavior, their emotional maturity, to their spiritual maturity, to their ability to take responsibility. Another one, on the other hand, was a recognition that we are stewards, that it is not for us to control, but for us to relinquish control and allow a community to embrace and receive our kids. 

And I think both of those come together to form a really nice answer, really nice template for thinking about and praying about the launching of our kids. Thank you to our listeners. We hope that the conversation today was helpful in directing how to view launching kids to help you understand perhaps the role that you play in it, not only in your own kids, but I think we’ve been wonderfully challenged to think about it more broadly. 

What’s my responsibility in the culture at large to receive the launching of young adults? So, thank you both for this conversation and thank you each one for listening in. Have a great day.