Community & Vulnerability Podcast Episodes

The Christian community is God’s ordained way of extending his love to his own people and to the world. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. It is great to have you along. Our topic today is going to be community and vulnerability. 

But before we get to that topic, I want to introduce our guests. Arlan Miller is not new to the show. Thanks, Arlan, for being here. Isaac Funk is, though, and Arlan, I want you to introduce Isaac, and we’re glad to have him here with us. Thanks, Matt. It is great to join again on Breaking Bread, and we are thankful for the chance to introduce Isaac Funk. 

Isaac Funk is the newest member of our team here at ACCFS. He is joining the church outreach group here. Isaac, why don’t you just tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Yeah, I’m super happy to be on the ACCFS Church Outreach Team, and I grew up in Peoria, Illinois, and married Elise Waldbeeser in Peachtree City, Georgia. 

Elise and I moved down to Peachtree City in 2019 and have been heavily involved in some local discipleship programs there, and that’s been a real passion of mine. I worked as an educator in the public schools for a while and have a real passion to form relationships and to really build up the Body as much as I can. 

And we’re really excited to have him bring that passion and that experience and energy to the church outreach team as we seek to try to encourage, help hope and growth amongst the brotherhood, which really has a lot to do with today’s topic. In fact, today, we’re going to talk about community and vulnerability. 

Let me just set it up this way. First community and vulnerability are buzzwords. They’re not just Christian words. These are words that are touted with esteem in our culture, right? And so, we want to just talk about community and vulnerability and certainly seeing them through Christ’s lens and what that means about the church, because I’m going to go ahead and say that Christ embodied community and vulnerability. He gathered around him a group of men and women and walked and did life with them. So, it’s very personal. And then we see Christ in the ultimate sign of vulnerability of his death, for example, he was vulnerable to the nth degree. Made bare and exposed on the cross.  

So, Christ knows a thing or two about vulnerability. He knows a thing or two about community and he lived them. And now these two terms are well thought of in and out of the church as things to contend for and things to do. And I think, Matt, part of it then speaks to the idea that these are core to who we are as human. We have a desire to belong. We have a desire to be part of something, which is an aspect that we can find in a community. And then we have a desire to be known. Which is an aspect of vulnerability where we are known for who we are. And so, I think you see them heavy in society right now because that is speaking to heart desires of humans who want to be known and an aspect of who we are. 

When you think of community, Isaac, or when you think of this idea of belonging to something, being part of something, what comes to your mind? Or what are some terms that you think of? Let’s try to capture that concept. When I think about what community would look like, and the way that it’s really gained a lot of attention in today’s culture, we see kind of this dichotomy existing of people really wanting community, but not necessarily willing to give into community, if that makes any sense. 

In my mind, community requires an assuming of responsibility for another, and part of that becomes vulnerability too, right? Becoming available to other people. And I think sometimes that’s hard to press up against in culture this idea that if you really want community, if you really want to have that skin on skin interaction that Jesus had with his disciples, then it’s going to take some self-sacrifice. 

I think a great view of community is when we fly in an airplane, you look out the window, and you will see communities. Right. Yeah. And in those communities, they all have similar things. There’s a grain elevator, maybe a hospital. There’s a school and there’s a neighborhood and there’s some businesses. 

There’s a downtown and they cluster together in supporting roles and needs. That concept of dependency is there, and different people will play different roles in that community. Absolutely. That’s part of it. And I think that speaks to me a little bit of where the temptation is or where a temptation can come in to want to define community on our own terms. We have the ability somewhat, and I think increasingly more so, to go into life and create our own community, how we want it to be. It’s a reflection of what I want and this idea of being vulnerable and being known and knowing others and the responsibility that then comes along with that I think is another depth on the level of community where I take it out of my own hands, and I put it up in the hands of someone else. 

So, the key word that I heard from that is vulnerability. I might throw another one out. Stability. Sure. If a community is not stable, we’re not going to be interested. And again, flying over in the airplane, these are communities that endure. They don’t die with a person. They endure through many generations. 

Isn’t that something right? Stability. That’s a great example, Matt. You know, stability gives us a sense of, I think, safety, which is another aspect of community as well, where we are to feel safe within that. And that safety then I think dovetails well with this idea of vulnerability. We become more vulnerable as we feel safer. 

When I think of the role that vulnerability plays in building that stable community. People need to be able to really be present with one another and pay attention to one another, if that makes sense. And I think I mean that in terms of listening rather than bulldozing or talking or the way that we can manipulate people. 

And I think what ends up happening in false communities and unstable communities is there’s a manipulation factor involved, a sizing up of other people in that community. And in order for one to truly be stable and healthy, that vulnerability will only come when people know that you’re there to share with them in their, whatever it is, in their grief, in their joy, to meet them where they are. 

My mind goes to things like social media and some of the communities that you see built online, which in many ways are, are the opposite, I think, of what you were talking about. Or don’t go to the depth of what you were talking about there, Isaac, where you have this, this true responsibility and known and vulnerability and realness. 

It’s so easy in social media to put a face on. And community is not about that. It really is that raw, messy. I really liked presence. You said you have to be present with a person. Because I think with the more words that we can try to capture this concept, we start to see what it is not because some of these words really would describe a corporation, right? 

Right. State Farm has been around for generations and there are many roles and dependency and stability and safety, right? But there is something to be said for presence being almost more important than the role. Follow me? Yeah. Let me explain with an example. Back when my grandmother was still living, we would have Thanksgiving at the nursing home, and she didn’t bring anything. 

She didn’t prepare a meal. She had no responsibilities, but we wouldn’t think of celebrating Thanksgiving without her presence. Her presence was everything. In fact, you might even say central to the whole event. What you start to capture now is what community is above and beyond the roles that we fill. 

And I think that’s important. There’s something really deep and necessary about community and the way God has made us to function as human beings and certainly as his people. And so, it also makes me wonder, what is the difference that Christian community makes as opposed to these corporations, these military outfits, whatever it is, what makes Christian community different? 

And I think that’s exactly where we want to go, Isaac, because I would agree with you. A community has purpose above and beyond the safety it provides, the comfort it provides, the enjoyment it provides. Enjoyment is part of community. Absolutely. I mean, sharing meals is part of community. It’s laughter and rejoicing and feasting and fasting and lamenting. 

All of these things are done in community. I’d love to place our finger on the beauty of the Christian community. What does it do above and beyond the CrossFit community? Or every single number of lodges. You go through some of those small towns, and you see, oh, there used to be an Elk Lodge or a Moose Lodge or all those things. The Legion. Men looking for community or women looking for community. What is the Christian community? What is the niche that speaks to? The Christian community is God’s ordained way of extending His love to his own people and to the world. And it’s drawing from a resource other than our own self, other than our own flesh. 

And I think any of us who find ourselves in an honest community find that we need something more than just ourselves to exist in that space and to do that well, to be able to be with other people in the way that they need us to be with them. And so, then the need to draw our life, to draw our resource from the Holy Spirit, I think sets it apart and enables it to do what no other group could possibly do because it’s not a human endeavor. 

It’s a spiritual God endeavor, the community that he creates in this thing. We can get to the mindset that community is an end of itself, that if we achieve a sense of brotherhood or bonding or that kind of thing, we’ve received it. But what I’m hearing you say, Isaac, is that true community actually points us deeper because it’s pointing us through the Spirit to God himself or to a reflection of God’s love for each other and for him and to grow deeper into that. 

So, it is a means. I think I really like that. And you even mentioned false community earlier in the conversation. I think it’s important for us to identify what false community would be or the false intent. You talked about manipulation. When the community becomes the God, could be a way that you would identify a cult, right? 

If I were to engage with somebody in my choir community or something like that, I would be engaging with them on a different basis than I would somebody in my local church. And part of that comes from the reality that when I go to my brother or sister in the Lord, there’s something at work there beyond just me and you, but it’s actually me, you, and the Spirit between us. 

And Dietrich Bonhoeffer has a chapter about this in his book, Life Together, where he makes the case for Christian community being unique in that way, that it’s never just me and you, but we have a mediator between us, and our life and our community is a reality by itself that exists in and through Jesus Christ. 

I’ll just give a personal testimony. I feel like I think the clearest when I’m in a community of believers, in physical proximity. I’m at church or I’m among my brothers and sisters, I find myself thinking the clearest about life about decisions about trials about temptations. 

And I think it’s the Holy Spirit who is in and among us. Because I don’t have that same clarity when I’m in the community of Walmart shoppers. It just doesn’t clear things up for me. And it gives a different meaning to the Scriptures when we read Scriptures like we are to be members one of another, and we are part of this Body. 

It takes it to a whole other level because if I’m not careful, I think I want to equate church to a community of believers. I want to interact with them and relate to them like I do other community members, or those I see down the street, or whatever, coworkers, that kind of a thing. And what I’m hearing, and what I really appreciate, is a call to go deeper with that, and to realize that this is a work of the Spirit among us that’s pointing us to a closer relationship with God, and revealing God himself, I think, in aspects of his character, through the workings of the Body there. 

Absolutely, yeah. It is the place where God dwells. If you can’t find him anywhere else, you will find him among his people. Right. And we need that more than anything. A wonderful part of the good news of the gospel is the community that God creates in his church. Isaac and Arlan have helped us see that in this episode. 

In the next episode, we’re going to carry forward this concept and couple it now with vulnerability. I hope you can be with us. 

Receiving, on the other hand, is accepting them where they are because that’s exactly what God does with us. Welcome friends to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m glad to air the second part of a conversation I had with Isaac Funk and Arlan Miller on community and vulnerability. 

In this episode, we’re going to needle in on vulnerability. Glad to have you along. I want to move now to vulnerability. I think we’ve captured the concept, the spirit of community. And I love seeing Christ in the community that he is God. not the community itself, but he embodies that community. 

And now as we look at vulnerability, you’ve made a very clear connection between community. We can’t be vulnerable without a community. I don’t think you can be vulnerable in and of yourself. It requires another person for vulnerability. But here’s another, I think, exalted term in our culture. I think everybody knows that, oh, I should be more vulnerable. 

So, let’s tease this term out as well and try to understand this also in a biblical frame of view. You know, Matt, I think that’s an important aspect like you shared, and I think it draws a contrast in my mind. I always hear this term surface community, which is a temptation that we can be in where we can know a lot of people, but we know I’m an inch deep and vulnerability is what forces us to know ourselves and then to know others to a deeper level, which builds that community, that responsibility, that dependency, that presence, all of that kind of thing to another level. 

There’s a reason why your grandma being at Thanksgiving was important, even if she did not do anything physically or role wise, because there was an openness and a vulnerability and a history there. Which all of those terms work together. There’s a term that I think of when I think of vulnerability, and I’ve used it earlier in the conversation too. 

And I love this word and I hate this word at the same time, but it’s that messiness because, I think, what you’ll find if there’s vulnerability is things tend to get a little bit messy at that point. But knowing that’s okay, that things will be a little bit messy in community and things will be messy with vulnerability. 

And that’s why I, something you were saying earlier Arlan, sparked the thought that, wow, community just sounds really, really amazing, and beautiful, and easy, and I think that we can get this false picture of what community actually should look like, or this is, perhaps we enter into community and vulnerability with the picture, like, if it’s working well, it’ll look this way, it’ll feel this way, and then we set that up as, as an ideal, yeah, and something, yeah, an ideal that we’re striving for, And all the while we miss the actual community that’s existing because it’s more messy. 

Right, because we find that it’s actually a lot harder than we’d like to think about it. And I think that’s something important to grapple with when we think about vulnerability and what that really means played out in everyday life. What does vulnerability require? It requires integrity and openness with other people. 

Exposure. That who I am with you today is just who I am. And it may not be the prettiest person, but the person that I bring is exactly who I am. That’s what’s required. So, there’s an authenticity to vulnerability. I think there’s another aspect too that’s really important to remember is that vulnerability is a means to an end as well. 

It’s not the end of itself. In fact, I think we can use vulnerability and even maybe oversharing and just airing my dirty laundry or whatever. Terminology, you want to use there as an excuse to not really do anything except for just lay it all out there and yet it feels good. Yeah, it does. And there’s a place for that kind of a thing, but we always need to push ourselves to say, so what is the purpose here? 

What is this vulnerability leading to in my mind in the community? Is it leading us towards accountability and growth and an exposure of where I am not where I should be? Okay. But also, a willingness and a desire to own that and then to press into growth. And I think that is an aspect too to feather out this definition just a little bit. 

I think your observation, Arlan, about it being a means to an end, vulnerability in and of itself is not the God, right? We have to give people the space that vulnerability is going to look differently. So, as a result of this podcast, if you shake somebody’s hand at church and they say, how are you doing? 

And you say, fine when things are not fine inside, that might be okay. We’re not saying, just because you’re vulnerable doesn’t mean that you spill to everybody. But to whom can you be vulnerable, and are you? I think that is part of the question. But it is important that we find sufficiently wise and kind people to do that with, right? 

It’s not always appropriate or useful to do that with the person passing by in church who says, how are you doing? That’s maybe not the most appropriate place to be doing it. But if we can enter into relationships with at least a willingness and a courage to be made known, to be vulnerable, that may be all that’s required. 

So, let’s go to the other side of that, Isaac. Coach me as a person in that church asking that question. How are you doing, right? What do I need to know to be a person to receive vulnerability? Because perhaps the person accurately perceives that I don’t know how to receive the vulnerability that I’ve just asked for. 

Right. Linger. I think linger. So, part of the answer is lingering. I think that would be, perhaps that’s a strange word for it, a little creepy maybe, but yeah, just hover around. Just pausing and giving space for that to be a possibility. Busyness will kill community and vulnerability, unlike anything else. 

Busyness will kill it. And so, we need to find a way to step away from that and to remove ourselves out of agenda with other people and, again, using that word, just being present with them. And linger. Linger. You know, I really like that. And I’m hearing a theme here come out about this idea of how much of it is about us and how much of it is about the other. 

And we know that, and we say that a lot, but just to really pause and reflect that, I think if we’re honest, our lives can be very much about ourselves and too much self will kill community, too much self will kill vulnerability. And it really requires us to leave ourselves behind. That’s what Christ said after all, right? 

Lose yourself. And then to say, no, this is for the deeper purpose of the Body and of the community in that sense, and of Jesus himself and walking together with him is a key aspect there. So, we’ve heard that lingering is helpful. Busyness is not helpful. What else? Let’s fill out the space a little bit. 

How do we engage a person in their vulnerability so as to encourage it? I think one thing that can be harmful with vulnerability, let’s say there’s a sharing that takes place. That’s not a place for teaching or a place for instruction or a place to say, you know, you did what, or you are, the judgment that can come there. 

It’s a place to linger, to listen, and to point towards Scripture and Jesus and the Spirit and towards truth in that regard, but gently and humbly, because we all are in those places at times in our lives. The terms shame and reception come to mind. The negative being shaming, receiving someone with, you ought to feel really bad about yourself or whatever. 

They probably feel sufficiently bad. Receiving, on the other hand, is accepting them where they are because that’s exactly what God does with us each and every day and certainly when we came to him to say you’re Lord of my life. He accepted us where we were and while we are yet sinners. 

He died and I think that’s an important reality to keep in mind that when somebody comes, we just receive them in the state that they are. Not that they will remain there. And that’s not the end but knowing that it’s okay and it’s not out of God’s hands, whatever the situation is. 

Yeah, so I want to key in on a couple of words I really like, because I think those two words do give us a fork in the road. When we have a place of vulnerability, we can either shame it or we can receive it. And then you talk about the end. If we go the shame route, it does end and it ends right there. 

But if we go the reception route, we allow for a good future end, don’t we? That reception actually sends us on a trajectory that can promote human flourishing, right? Whereas shame is just a cul de sac. So, think about a couple of scriptural examples with Jesus. Think about the woman caught in adultery. He receives her where she’s at. He doesn’t condone the sinful behavior. And in fact, he’s going to eventually offer that instruction and say, go and sin no more. But whereas others were in an instant state of stopping and condemning. There’s a reception that takes place there.  

I think of Matthew, the tax collector. There’s not much in the Scriptures there. It kind of glosses over that. But what he was most likely doing as a tax collector to his people was one of the most sinful jobs anybody could have in many ways. And yet he called him onto the team. And over time, I think there was that correction and that instruction and that kind of a thing. 

But he said, come and be with me. I want to take you further up and further in, so to speak. And I love that imagery of the work that he must have done in Matthew’s heart over time. Calling him on to the team, I think, is a great way to understand reception. I want you on my team. 

And Jesus had such a way of communicating that. I think of the rich young ruler. He didn’t allow himself to be vulnerable with Jesus. Jesus was open to the vulnerability. He was ready to receive him on his team, and yet he went away sorrowfully. And I also recognize the Scripture where Jesus is praying in Gethsemane on the night where he needs his people most, right? 

And he’s having a really rough time at it. And he says, would you pray and watch with me? And he calls them onto his team that way. And then what happened? They failed. And he receives them where they are. He still loved them, right? A hundred percent. He did.  

He’s not soft on sin. I mean, I think you can read some comments and say, oh, he’s just being soft on sin. It’s not about being soft on sin, but it’s about being heavy on reception and the realness of grace and truth working together and love undergirding it all. 

Because what Jesus with reception is signing him up for when he signs a person onto his team, what he’s signing him up for is having that person on his team for the long haul, which is a lot of effort, which is that community, right? Sometimes the easiest thing to do is to shame and then be done with it. 

But the hard work is in the reception and then dealing with it and taking that sin head on for. Or difficulty, it doesn’t have to be sin. Difficulty, brokenness, heartache. And if I’m honest with myself, Matt and Isaac, that is where I personally learn the most, is in a community of broken people together, walking through life together. 

And in areas that’s not easy, and not what I would choose, and yet that shapes me and sanctifies me through my interaction. Well, let me just put this to you. Very often when we say vulnerability, negative emotions come to mind, right? But what good things have come of life that vulnerability was not a part of? 

Very little. Take your most prized relationships and you’ll find that vulnerability was very much in the making. Vulnerability allows people to be themselves and allows them to exercise their gifts. We’re not created perfectly because of the Fall in the garden. We learn and we grow. And so, we need space to be able to do those things, to learn and to exercise our gifts, our talents, our ideas. 

And so that’s where great things came from, where these ideas that people had to present and become vulnerable with. The person like Elon Musk who comes up with I’m going to create a fully electric car that’s going to be affordable, you know, and people are like, no, you can’t do that. 

If there could have been some shame there, he had to step out and had to look foolish and allow himself to be misunderstood by a lot of people just as Jesus. You know, there’s a kid’s song that we sing that my kids love right now, and just a simple line in there that comes to my mind. 

It just says, God makes messy things beautiful when we put them in his hands. And I think there’s an aspect of that, of this vulnerability and community that there’s messiness around us as we talked about. And when we put that messiness in God’s hands through the inner workings there, he’s going to make things beautiful out of that. 

And I want to lean into that and get myself out of the way of it so he can do his work. Thanks, brothers, for stirring up our thoughts on this. So, community and vulnerability, vogue terms for good reason in and outside the church, because God has knit within our frame, the need for them both. 

And yet, I think through this conversation, we can see community and vulnerability more accurately in terms of their purpose to a greater end. Not an end in and of themselves, but a greater end. One, the manifestation of Jesus in a group and in his Body. And another one, a way like Jesus did to encourage people towards flourishing so many times through the examples we mentioned of Jesus, it required him lingering in than that he was just slow to get to his next place because there was somebody to receive onto his team. 

And I think we see in Christ this tremendous example of community and vulnerability to the end that God has designed it to be. So, thank you, each one. Thanks to our listeners for being here. We trust and pray that what we’ve shared here today can just encourage you. We want people to step into community. We want people to both step into and be a reception of vulnerability to the end that God could be glorified in his Church.