Friendship In Marriage Podcast Episodes

It has to be cultivated. It’s like a plant that you water, that you fertilize, that you pay attention to, and it grows over time. 

Greetings and welcome to another episode of Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I’m Matt Kaufman, and today I have Kaleb Beyer with me. Hi, Kaleb. Hi Matt. It’s good to be here. We’re going to speak about friendship in marriage. And I think perhaps you could provide a little bit of forest for the trees with this topic on where friendship finds its place in marriage. 

What role does it play? And it’s probably a partner among other things, right? So set that stage a little bit. Sure. My mind goes to the triangular model of love, the concept that there is not just one definition of love. So, if you think of a triangle, at the base of the triangle would be commitment or agape love. And then on the left side of the triangle would be emotional intimacy, or the Greek words often thought of as philia, which is friendship, and then storge, which is really about affectionate familial love, and then on the other side, the right side of the triangle, would be romance and passion. And so, what we’re focusing on with this is that friendship or the emotional intimacy part of love. 

So, there is an important component of marriage that is friendship. Okay, and so you’ve kind of set that up between agape, self-sacrificing love, romantic love, and now this friendship love. I think of Priscilla and Aquila, and it doesn’t give us a lot of context as far as what their relationship looked like exactly, but they were together in ministry, and I have to think that friendship was part of their relationship. 

You really get a sense with them; you can’t say one name without the other. Yes. With Priscilla and Aquila. And friendship certainly is all over the Scriptures. We find it clear back in Genesis in the creation account, when God, after he creates, he reflects on each day and he sits back and says, this is good. 

Right? This is good. But then in that creation account, there’s one particular moment where he says, this is not good. It’s not good for man to live alone. And it’s an incredible thing, Matt, to think that here Adam was in perfect communion with the God of the universe, and yet it wasn’t good for him to be alone. 

You almost get a sense, too, Kaleb, that God was working to this point of need, almost as if it was as much for us to understand this. It was almost like, Adam, do you see? Without this relational component, it’s not complete. My love isn’t full or the expression or experience of my love isn’t fully felt. 

Right. And even as he calls Eve a helpmeet. And if you look at the root meaning of that word, it’s the same word that’s used oftentimes throughout Psalms and Proverbs of God being our help. I think Ezer is the Hebrew word, but it’s that aspect of helper or companion or aid. 

And so, it’s that component, I guess, that is an instrumental part of marriage and an important part for us to spend some time thinking about. So, this is somebody coming alongside equality where there’s a passing back and forth of benefit and blessing. Yes. Is that right? Absolutely. Are we starting to flush out what friendship means? 

Yeah, I think the word helper has gotten a really negative rap in our culture but at the same time it’s used of God himself as being our helper And so I think the helper role that the wife has, the help meet, is a God given role she can fulfill. I would presume, just because we’re having this conversation, that sometimes friendship in marriage does not exist. 

Yeah. Or perhaps, it’s not as healthy as it could be. Yeah. Is that the impetus of the conversation? Yep, it is. It’s often the first thing to go. That’s an overgeneralization, but friendship over time, if you think about a couple, just an average couple, this isn’t true for everyone, during their stage of engagement, getting to know each other, there’s excitement, there’s friendship, there’s romance, okay? 

What happens is that you go through the couple’s life, it’s like reinforcement erosion. No longer do we reinforce our love for each other, our appreciation, our thankfulness. Life, stress, transitions, all create an atmosphere where if we’re not intentional about continuing to cultivate friendship, it doesn’t keep going. 

That’s interesting, Kaleb. And as I think about that triangle you laid out, that bottom one of agape, of commitment, so to speak. You know, I can see you just strong arm that. Yeah. I’m not letting that go, and so that endures. And romance plays on so much body chemistry and hormones and such. There’s a lot that keeps that going. And then this friendship piece. Yeah, when you say it, I can see that it requires some real effort. Yes, it does. Even as you take it outside of the marriage relationship of just thinking of those two different components. 

Challenge me here, Matt, but I think it’s possible for us to agape our enemies, but it, boy, it would be very difficult to phileo. Right? That kind of love to an enemy is nearly impossible. Yeah. Okay. So now you’ve really juggled up some of these terms of love in my head and I love it because agape is so deep, but this phileo has really been redeemed in a sense by this conversation that this is a really beautiful love and it’s not one that’s easy. 

I would completely agree. It would be hard to phileo my enemy. Yeah. It’s affection and desire to be with them. And sometimes it’s easier to love a person than to like them. So, we’re really getting to this like part. I can will love almost. But how do you will like? 

Isn’t that what we’re coming down to? Yeah. For sure. It’s something that you can’t will. It has to be cultivated. It’s like a plant that you water, that you fertilize, that you pay attention to, and it grows over time. Help us with this. Are there some spaces for us to think about in order for us to grow in this likeness? 

Yeah. There are three areas that I think are helpful to consider in this area of friendship. The first is just knowing one another in a deep sense. The second is sharing affection and appreciation for each other. And then the final and third component is this aspect of in the small moments of day-to-day life that we are intentional about turning towards each other and seeking each other in those moments rather than moving away from each other. 

So those are three areas that are helpful to think about. Let’s start with that knowing piece. I think that is so automatic early on. I mean, you mentioned the engagement part, right? So much of that engagement time is learning to know, isn’t it? It is. And excited to learn. 

What’s your favorite this? What’s your favorite that? Yeah. How did that make you feel? How did you respond to that? Yeah. So much of the explosion in the engagement is like all of a sudden seeing this person a lot deeper. Yes. So, I think it’s natural that knowledge does follow upon favor and love for a person. 

Is that what we’re speaking of? Yeah, it is. It’s really that inner world of our spouse. So, one researcher calls it cognitive maps. Think of a map laid out in front of you, and you get to study and learn the territory, okay? So, for our spouse, that would be, what are their worries? What are their hopes and dreams? What are their aspirations? Who do they feel most connected with? How is God working in their life? Our spouses change. So, it’s not like, oh, I know my spouse when we were engaged and so there’s nothing really more to know about them. What are some good questions to ask? Simply asking each other, what was the high and the low of your day? 

That’s a simple kind of way of understanding what’s really heavy on your heart or what you are looking forward to, excited about. When I hear you say that too, Kaleb, I hear you touching on those emotions. What made you happy today? What made you sad today? What made you excited? And those are telling, aren’t they? Yeah. They are. They connect you to your spouse’s connection to what they are excited about. And so, I can share in that or, you know, what they’re worried about. So, I can pray for that or send a note tomorrow when that event comes that they’re worried about. 

See, now that I know that and I’m carrying it with me, my spouse is with me throughout the day. And so, it’s that knowledge that moves me into the next level, which is sharing appreciation and affection. But if I don’t have the knowing part, it’s kind of hard to really connect deeply. 

You know, Kaleb, as you presented asking questions to know, a lot of times I think it’s natural for us husbands to ask questions to solve or to help. How can I help you? And there is a place for that. But we’re really saying now we’re just asking questions to know. 

Yeah. So that my spouse knows that I know. Yes. And there’s some sort of solace in that. Yeah. When my spouse can call out, hey, I’m really thinking about you today at this upcoming event that I shared with them two days ago or a week ago. That’s like they’re with me. 

They’re here at this moment. And I think that’s something very powerful that connects us at a friendship level. Here’s one. What song have you been listening to or something like that? What book have you been reading and why did you like it or something? Yep. Or even, certainly in a spiritual sense, what verses stood out to you or how do you feel like God has been speaking to you? 

In what ways do you feel like he’s prompting you or challenging you? That sort of thing. Okay. Move to a spiritual piece. The point that we’ve been saying is that this phileo love, this appreciation love, can grow. And some of these questions help us with that. Is there a natural way that when you learn to know a person, then you are set up to start to like that person? 

You know what I’m saying? Is there a connection there? And I’m thinking about that couple whose like has really fallen off. Yeah, there is a connection. If we know our spouse deeply and intimately, if we’re dwelling with them according to knowledge, as we’re reminded in 1 Peter, if we’re sharing actively expressing appreciation for one another and we’re intentionally seeking those moments where we’re connecting to each other, that leads to an atmosphere of grace, of love, of willing to extend forgiveness. So, it cultivates an atmosphere where I’m willing to actually excuse mistakes that my wife made much easier than I would if that was not present. When I have an atmosphere of grace, it’s much easier to walk through conflict and differences than when I don’t have that there. 

So, oftentimes when couples come in distress, certainly we want to work through differences and conflict, but at the same time, we want to build and foster. Kaleb, thanks. What a great start to such an important topic. Next time we will pick up the last two tips for strengthening friendship and marriage. 

Sharing affection and appreciation for one another, as well as turning towards one another in the small moments of life. We look forward to that conversation. Thanks for being with us, friends. If you want more teaching on marriage, be sure to visit our website. Last October, this agency hosted our first marriage conference. 

Audio and resources have been captured on our website. Look for, or just Google, Cultivating Connections Marriage Conference to find these resources. 

It is in small moments where you intentionally connect for 30 seconds to a minute, but over a week or a month, those cultivate the friendship part of that connection. 

Kaleb, welcome back. And friends, thanks for listening. This is Breaking Bread. In the last episode, Kaleb Beyer spoke about the role friendship plays in marriage, and how knowledge of one another is a key component of building this friendship. Today we will learn two more action items to help with this objective. So, Kaleb, sharing affection and appreciation, bring some clarity around this. 

What do we mean by that? And how’s that done? So, sharing affection and appreciation is finding those moments when you can, it can be as simple as expressing appreciation for your spouse, but also moments to be able to laugh together and just have fun together. To just do small things, whether that’s a date night and being consistent in date nights or maybe it’s jokes that you have between the two of you or maybe it’s having fun with the kids but you’re together fostering a spirit of appreciation, enjoyment with each other that is really what this is talking about. And I really see that this does come on the heels of knowing your spouse. 

Knowing what it is that she finds fun to do and then linking up on that so that we’re not running parallel lives each with our own points of interest. Yeah. But trying to find some commonality in that. Yeah. That doesn’t come out of what I think my spouse may enjoy but what I know they’ve shared it with me. Now I know that this is the way I can speak into them in ways that they want to be spoken to rather than from my own perspective and viewpoint thinking. 

Oh, they need this or this would be good. You know, it’s interesting, Kaleb. As part of the help here, do we need to sometimes step out and say I’m going to try to like this activity. So, my spouse really likes to watch birds and likes to talk about the birds that are around the house. Maybe I should pick up the binoculars and really look when she comments on a certain bird because maybe with a little bit of a shove or a push I might find and catch the enjoyment rather than just saying that’s her thing and that’s just not my thing. You know what I’m saying? 

Yes, you get excited about the enjoyment that overcomes them when they’re involved in that activity whether you like the activity or not. It’s being with them and experiencing that together is an enjoyment that comes as an aside in these experiences tather than always the engagement of the activity. Yes. I think that’s helpful, too, now, as I think about my spouse, I think about what she likes, what she would enjoy. Yep. Move into areas that they love and that they enjoy, which calls us to self-sacrifice. It really does. 

There’s no other way that that works. One of the things that can be helpful for couples to do or even families is to spend some time where they pull out the photo album or look at pictures on the computer or videos and being able to laugh together and share in those experiences, even sometimes experiences that in the moment, were frustrating, but they can laugh together about now as a couple. And, you know, it doesn’t take a lot of time, but it’s creating a culture that we’re together in this, that we’ve created some memories, and we can laugh together about that. That brings us together and expresses appreciation and affection for one another. There’s something really deep there, Kaleb, and something I’ve never thought about. 

And that is the celebration that we are a unit, and that we share a great deal of memories together and call upon those memories to help establish our oneness. Yes. And that commitment. And that we’ve been through thick and thin. We’ve been through ups and downs. You’d mentioned that the third one, Kaleb, was seeking to be attuned into the small moments and matters of life. 

Yeah, so the idea is small steps often. One marital researcher called it bids. So, we make bids many a day so bids can come in the form of verbal or nonverbal. Which means I can specifically ask my wife a question that then bids her to respond to my question or I can just say you know, wow, this has been a really stressful day, or something really exciting happened. 

I’m not really asking a question, but it’s providing an opportunity for her to respond to my bid. So those are examples, but also a bid when I leave in the morning, when we depart for the day. There’s an opportunity for us to connect. For 30 seconds, we can embrace each other, say, I love you, or we can just leave without doing any of that. 

As the adage goes, ships passing in the night. Yes. That can happen. Yeah. And what we’re saying here is being intentional about those connections and those connections don’t have to be huge and monumental. That’s part of the message here, right? Exactly. Yeah. I think it is. Small moments where you intentionally connect for 30 seconds to a minute, but over a week, over a month, those are cultivating that friendship part of that connection when we’re away. 

Give us some more practical ways that we make these bids. It’s kind of like a bank account. So, when we make bids, we are depositing in an emotional bank account. Over time, negative interactions are going to happen. Stress is going to happen. But if we built up that emotional bank account, that’s going to be a buffer for those times when we’ll have to draw on it. Yes. Responding to my spouse’s bids and being aware that they’re even making a bid means I have to be present. Yeah. Practical examples are intentional when you leave in the morning, so these are small simple things, that you’re hugging each other, giving each other a kiss, and saying I love you. 

Okay? When you come home at night, you’re intentional about connecting, creating that place where you’re responding to each other, expressing maybe in words, maybe just through your physical connection that you’re important to me, I love you, glad to be home. Another place is being intentional about setting time away where you don’t have distractions from social media, the kids, work, but you can sit across from each other and share about your day. 

So be intentional about that date night space and even on a daily basis if it’s five to ten minutes. Okay, say it’s after mealtime and you have young kids. It’s letting the kids go and sit for another five to ten minutes to just share with each other. It’s not a big amount of time, but those small moments build up to be very powerful. So maybe a couple has got set aside time every day. When husband comes home from work, there’s five minutes that the kids just know that they don’t pester mom and dad because they’re connecting. Or after supper, they always go on a walk or they connect, right? But there is a sense of that it is just a clarity for everybody else to know that this is going to happen. 

And you’re going to have to hold your question until mom and dad are done. Some boundaries. And sometimes, depending on what life stage, sometimes maybe it’s just after the kids are in bed in the evening when the couple has some time together. And the other thing in this area of bids is when we’re apart being intentional about whether it’s sharing a text, calling over lunch hour, or maybe meeting at lunch hour. Those are also small ways that cultivate and continue to deposit in that emotional bank account. Here’s another idea, Matt. When you reflect on your spouse, thinking about behaviors, if you were to list five behaviors that you could do for your spouse that you feel would increase their marital satisfaction, their happiness within the relationship. 

So, this is about you thinking about Rebecca, right? If you were to do five behaviors on a consistent basis, not like going on a cruise, but small things throughout the moments of life, if you were to do those consistently. So it’s a self-reflection, you sit down, you write them down, and then you share them with her and say, if you were to list five small behaviors, would these be the one? 

Yeah. Or would you say that it’d be something else? Yeah. So, once you have the five behaviors of your spouse, then you intentionally, once a week, pick one of those behaviors and engage it. Yeah. Not big things, right? Maybe it’s helping with the dishes or maybe it’s putting the kids to bed at night, whatever that looks like. But the reality is, again, you’re responding to their bids in the way that they feel loved and experience love.  

That makes a lot of sense. And in fact an activity Rebecca and I used to do years ago, we have gotten away from it although it was very beneficial, is we put in a jar those things that we particularly like. And every week I’d pull out of her jar, and she’d pull out of mine and then work that into the week. 

Yeah. I was getting great cookies. I think I do need to resurrect this, but no, the point is it was a special thing. You know, sometimes I think we expect our spouses to know. We have this view that, oh, they should know. And if they just do it without me telling them, it’s going to be so much better. Yeah. But you know what? It’s pretty great even when you tell them. Yes. Matt, both of those realities are true. Back to the knowing, me pursuing and knowing them and so spontaneously I can just do things, but also sometimes sharing those things that are important verbally and expressing those needs is helpful. 

Kaleb, this has been excellent. We’ve talked about knowing your spouse. We’ve talked about staying in tune and making those bids to them. We’ve talked about sharing that affection and that appreciation. As we move this conversation to a close, what overarching comments do you want to make about friendship and marriage? 

Cultivating each of these areas can be beneficial in themselves. I mean, we can see how it connects us in a deep and meaningful way to our spouse. The cumulative effect of all three of them creates an atmosphere of viewing our spouse with positive intentions. If you were to describe what the climate of your relationship was like, what would you say it is. 

That’s self-reflection. Is it sunny? Without clouds? Is it partly cloudy? Is it right through a thunderstorm? That climate creates an atmosphere where I view my spouse. So let me give you an example. I will go home tonight, and Ange makes me my favorite pie, which happens to be peach pie, and it comes off an argument we had a couple days ago. 

If we were in a cloudy, thunderstorm climate in our relationship, I might think, Ange is just making up for the disagreement and what she did two days ago. Versus if there’s an atmosphere of grace and positivity, I’m thinking, wow. Yeah. She’s amazing. I’m so thankful for her. She’s in tune with my needs, and I’m so blessed. And so, the only difference is the atmosphere within the relationship.  

And what we have shared here today, and what you’ve helped us understand, is how to bring the sun back out. And when it is sunny, it is natural for us to view our spouse in a positive light, to make leaps of good intentions rather than leaps of ulterior motives. 

We make excuses for them, right? Yes. And how important that is in marriage. It’s that component of companionship, Matt, that we talked about, that oneness that we see in the Trinity of flowing back and forth. And it’s really, I think, what God designed marriage to be about. Yes.  

Kaleb, this has been, I think, incredibly insightful. I think it will be delightful to listen to, review, and reflect upon. And I think it’s very applicable as well as we think about our marriages and our spouses. Thanks so much. And to our listeners, we trust that this has been a blessing to you and thanks for being along.