Emotional Regulation Podcast

One of the unexpected pieces of change is being able to regulate your emotions. If you can’t regulate your emotions, it is very difficult to change something. Welcome everyone to Breaking Bread, the podcast brought to you by Apostolic Christian Counseling and Family Services. I have Kathy Knochel and Brian Sutter here in the studio, and we’re going to talk about emotional regulation. 

So, thanks, both of you, for being on. Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks. Good to be here. Emotional regulation, well, we’re going to unpack what that is and perhaps start with the first word, emotion. Brian, I want to direct this to you. Share a little bit about emotion, where it sits in a person, its purpose, and all of that. 

Yeah, to zoom back a bit, a lot of us would recognize and identify. Oh, tell me some of the emotions and you’d list off, happiness or joy or sadness and all of those sorts of things. So those are the things that we label them as, but then, if we look under the hood a bit, they all have different, what I would say, energy to them. 

They show up in different parts of the body and you know when anger shows up, if you think about it, maybe my head gets pressure or, when sadness shows up, you feel the energy flow right out of you. And so, emotions have such a profound impact on us on what we’re thinking and what we’re feeling in our body. And I think they’re just one of God’s gifts to us that actually give us a lot of information if we’re able to tune into them and read the information or look at and consider the information in a helpful way.  

I really like that, Brian, that emotion is giving us information. I think that’s a helpful way to start. And Kathy, what would you add to that? Yeah. I think that it is important to recognize that emotions are not good or bad, but they are our body’s way of sending us messages. And so, if we are angry about something, that anger is there to show us that something maybe needs to change or, joy and happiness show us that this is something that we should be valuing or participating in. Emotions just send us messages about things. 

Right. And along those same lines, sadness is generally an indication that there’s been a loss or something painful has happened. And then anxiety, another big one or worry is there’s a fear or concern. Some of those big categories I think can be really helpful in providing some insight. 

Emotions are really influential and motivational. They really motivate us to some sort of action. Do they? Oh, sure. Yeah. I think that they tend to put push us towards a direction and even some of those things that Kathy and I were talking about briefly kind of help you see because sometimes you notice the direction you’re headed before you realize the emotion that’s behind it. And so, you can kind of look at as a two-way street, you can recognize the emotion and anticipate where that’s going to push you behaviorally. And other times you look at your behavior and say, oh, I must be angry. And it can be helpful to notice that either direction.  

You’re really making a strong connection between emotions and a physical bodily experience. And one of the reasons I think that’s really important is just to recognize if we can identify the emotion that we’re dealing with, that’s going to put us in a better position to be able to then regulate that emotion.  

So, Kathy, let’s go to you then. Brian dropped emotional regulation. What is emotional regulation? How I like to think about emotion regulation is thinking about what it is not. And it is not being perfectly calm all the time. And so that regulation word means that our emotions are going to fluctuate. 

We’re going to feel times of anger or increased anxiety or that sort of thing. And then emotion regulation is using a set of skills and tools to be able to get our emotions back to a place where we feel more in control of them and, and they’re managed well. Another thing, along those same lines, Kathy, it makes me think of the throttle on a vehicle. 

If you push the pedal down, you need to be able to do that sometimes to accelerate into the flow of traffic. Other times you need to be able to slow down and pull off of that. And the same sort of thing, it’s not that we have no emotional energy or that it’s to the max all the time, but to have flexibility and the ability to either say, okay, let’s let this emotion come and experience the intensity with it. Or, actually, this is a time I need to back down and slow down a bit. If you think about that like if you hear a fire alarm going off, you feel an increase in some kind of emotion and that’s a good thing, or else you would just be in a place of like, oh, what’s that? And you could get hurt in some way by not recognizing. 

So, that ability to have some increased feelings is definitely important and serves a purpose. Right. Yeah. So, and in that, to be able to have worry sometimes is appropriate. If your child or your friend is going out on the street, you want an emotional response that’s giving you the message of, oh, I need to intervene right now. 

And sometimes, the trick with emotions is that we have the emotional response, but it’s the wrong context. So, that emotional response in a different context might be helpful and appropriate. And in another context, it actually is counterproductive and to be able to know the difference can be quite helpful. 

So that emotion is like fuel, it’s fueling. Yes. Yeah. And the question then remains, is it fueling the right action? Is it at the right time? Is it firing too much fuel for the situation at hand? All of that goes into this concept of regulating emotions. And we recognize this is a very powerful thing, our emotions, and if not stewarded, we can just go along for the ride and be at their whim. 

Yeah, and I think, too the connection that you’re making there, Matt, is that our mind has a really big connection to the emotions to be able to recognize what’s there and then how our mind interacts with it. If it categorizes that, oh, maybe this is too big, or maybe this isn’t the right context that’s helpful to do. 

But then too, if our mind doesn’t engage rightly with what I would say is compassion, it actually then accidentally puts more gasoline onto the fire. And before we know it, we’re frustrated about being frustrated. And now we’re really frustrated and it’s off to the races and we can’t really reel it back in. 

Emotion compounds emotion. And pretty soon we’ve got fuel being injected from not just the situation at hand, but emotions that are happening. So that all raises the necessary objective to regulate. And that’s what we’re going to be talking about here today. You had mentioned, Kathy, in your opening comments about regulating emotion that it’s not necessarily shutting them down or stopping them. So, there is a holy respect that we have for emotions that you need to have in order to regulate them. 

Yes, and I think that goes back to some of the things that Brian had said there is a place and time for emotions, and we want to be able to use them as God has designed them. But when we are carried away by them and if we’re always in a place of being worried or anxious or worked up about something that interferes with our ability to engage in daily life the way we’re wanting to. 

So, a person might have an awareness that I need to learn more regulation skills if my daily life is being interfered by my emotion. Is that one of the categories we’re thinking about? Yeah, I think so and in regulating emotion, sometimes we’re going to primarily be talking about the end of the spectrum where the emotions are too big, but also, I think like you’re highlighting there, Kathy, as well as there would be some on the side of the spectrum where they need to regulate them in the sense of being able to help open them up. 

But certainly, when those emotions get really big, what they do is turn off our mind, our ability to think clearly. So, the things that we know are true and what we would say are right and good, that whole part of our mind gets turned off because the emotions basically trump them. And so that makes it really hard then to live consistent with what we would say is right and good and true if emotions aren’t able to be within a certain intensity. 

Brian, you alluded to this in some of your opening comments about the connection to the body. Speak a little bit about this connection between the body and our emotions. How does this fit in a Christian worldview? Yeah. And I think this is one of the earliest questions. You go back and one of the things that you find out that the apostle Paul and many others are battling against is Gnosticism. 

And that’s basically the idea that the physical is bad. And I think that one of our challenges of our day is it can be really easy to see the physical as a bad thing. But I think what we’re learning more and more, and even as we dive into the Scriptures, we would say that the body seems to be a really important thing and actually is elevated as a good thing, seen as a good thing. Christ coming and taking on flesh and that we’ve been created as physical beings, all of those things, if you think of it and you start to look at it through that lens, the body is actually seen as a really wonderful sacred thing that has high value. 

And so, I think we’re invited in that to be able to think about the beauty of the body, the importance of the body, and what information the body would have for us and the connection that’s there. So, Kathy with that as kind of a foundation that emotions are seated in the body, then emotional regulation skills somewhat tap a bodily experience. Am I right about that? Yes. So, Kathy, I would love for you to give us some ideas on what types of skills people can engage in to regulate emotion.  

So, there are a variety of skills out there and what they are targeted at doing is calm our body down. So, something like anxiety might increase our heart rate or that sort of thing. So, being able to use skills to calm that down. And be able to slow down enough so that thoughts are not racing and we’re able to think through something in a calm, more intentional way. And so, skills that do that are things like deep breathing skills that help calm the body down. There are also skills known as grounding skills or mindfulness skills, and all of those skills are targeted at this piece that we’re talking about of regulating the emotions in a healthy way. 

You know, some might be rolling their eyes right now saying, okay, deep breathing, more on mindfulness. Let’s really talk about some of these things. Brian, why does deep breathing make sense? Yeah, well, I think there are so many different factors, but even just from a biological sense, oxygen, when that is in our bloodstream. There’s just so many benefits to that and that just helps slow things down and the way that our body is meant to operate, just like having good food in your body, you recognize that you’re going to function a lot better on carrots than you are Cheetos, right? Unfortunately, I know that’s really sad. 

The same would be true. The more that we have our bloodstream oxygenated, the more it’s going to be a helpful thing to operate the way the system is supposed to. But our tendency as we walk through our day is to breathe in a way that actually is pretty shallow and quick, and to be able to slow down, use our diaphragm, and really fill up our lungs and get that oxygen in there. 

You know, that’s just the way God’s created us. Yeah. The mothers among us will probably remember breathing in the delivery room and finding great relief from pain and being able to focus in a very difficult moment. Right. Or even after birth and the child is a lot of times put on the mother’s chest and part of what happens in that moment, as well as they age, they’re learning how to pick up on mom’s body and how they’re breathing. 

And then that’s helping them learn how to regulate their breathing in a really helpful way. And it is just like, wow, God, this is amazing how all of this operates together and really subtle ways that we, a lot of times don’t even notice. So, most of us have given no thought to breathing, although we do it continually. 

So, let’s take mindfulness, Kathy. What is mindful? We hear this term. Help us out. Yes. So, mindfulness, how I like to describe it is as a way of being. And so, by that being able to do it over a long period of time where deep breathing is something that you would just engage in. Mindfulness is the term of having a mindful stance. And so that’s being able to be in a place where you have an awareness of what’s going on around you, moment by moment and your present verse paying attention to what’s going on in your mind or paying attention to the physical symptoms you might be feeling or that sort of thing. 

When I think of mindfulness too, I think that this example is helpful. So, this is an example of something that happened this summer. We were on a family vacation and we were walking around a gardens thing that had some exhibits for kids and all of that was going on. It started to get really hot outside. We got a little bit lost in this gardens and we were trying to figure out like half the group thought we should go left, half thought we should go right. And so, it’s just the perfect setup. And so, as the adults are stressing about this and trying to get back to where we started at, our four-year-old niece announced loudly, look at this waterfall, you guys, and just being able to say she was mindful there. She was able to be just in the present moment, just enjoying the things that were right in front of her. And so, when we think about mindfulness, kids do it really well. They’re just present and noticing what’s going on in their environment. 

And so, the stress of that event was manageable. Yes. To being present in that event. Yes. Right. Connect, Brian, that mindfulness with the emotional experience. How is mindfulness regulating emotion? Well, I think one of the things that we really struggle with in our modern day is being able to be where we’re at. 

Because our mind has the capacity to learn about and be in so many different places. And that’s really fascinating that I can learn about or be thinking about or engaging in something online that’s a world away. And in some ways, that’s really helpful, but when it comes to emotional regulation, if I’m in another world and that world is really scary or it’s focused on something that’s generating anger or sadness and I’m there, but it’s not actually with me, then you can see how the emotional response is not going to be connected to the actual present-day reality. 

Now, sometimes that happens, but if we’re in the present moment, that’s going to be much more conducive to the emotion fitting in with what’s actually going on around us. Whereas even in the scenario that Kathy just described that the emotion of, oh no, we start to move into panic when actually, okay, this is maybe concerning, but it’s not a huge deal. 

We’re going to be okay. Right? But we lose sight of that when we lose sight of where we’re actually at, what’s actually going on around us, and then our emotions are really good at painting a picture that’s more catastrophic. And we miss the things that are just enjoyable in front of us in those moments. 

Right, I think it’s really easy in our modern day to be on autopilot because there are so many things that we do or unless it’s really got a lot of flashes and lights and all the things that are part of being online, we don’t notice it. And so, it takes a lot more intentional effort as we walk down the street to notice the ants that are there or the color of the mailbox of our neighbor or the sign that we drive by every day. Our mind just says, oh, that’s not important. And then it disconnects from it. And we’re thinking about something that’s maybe far away. 

Okay. So, I had an aha as both of you brought that because I’ve heard mindfulness spoken of a lot. I thought that I had my mind around it, but you supplied something in this conversation that has brought clarity to me. And that is you allow for other emotions to be present by the environment that you’re in. 

So, if my emotions are firing on something that happened in the past or is going to happen in the future and that has got me occupied, living in the moment is still playing the game of emotions. It’s allowing your emotional self to still thrive and flourish. You’re allowing your limbic system to work, right? 

Yeah. Is that a good way to say it? I think so. And I think practically if we go back to the statement that Brian said about driving on the road and seeing our neighbor’s mailbox and that sort of thing, mindfulness is something good to practice in moments like that when you’re in a vehicle or that sort of thing where you can allow yourself to make the choice of, I’m going to let myself just stay really present right now. 

And so, in that way, it’s a skill to be able to learn. And those are specific settings or doing some routine jobs around the house. Just stay right there and noticing what’s unfolding before you. That would be a practical use of mindfulness. So, I hear practice often goes with skills. What skill doesn’t come with practice? But really, you’re saying emotional regulation will come by way of practice and probably not any other way. Am I right about that? Unfortunately, yes. Yeah. These are tools that all of us have to some degree or another and practicing in them and being purposeful of diaphragmatic breathing or getting better at being able to stay in the present moment, or whatever those skills are that you decide to engage in you will be necessary. It is going to take practice. And practice when things are calmer. You think about anything else that we practice, generally, we’re going to practice those when the stakes aren’t high, when the game’s not on the line, but when it’s just everyday life and you’re just trying to get the memory muscle down in your system. 

That’s helpful, which, to that point, is why it’s not helpful when you see somebody overwhelmed to tell them, just take a deep breath and then they do that. They feel nothing, no benefit from it. And so, then they say this deep breathing thing doesn’t work. But with practice in lower stakes moments, more regulated moments, you start to gain the benefit of it. And then in those moments when you are overwhelmed, the reminder to take a deep breath is actually helpful and you are able to regulate then. 

And I think one of the reasons why this is all so important is that most of us have some things that we would like to do differently as we walk through our day. Now, the trick is how do we get there? And I think one of the unexpected pieces of change is being able to regulate your emotions. If you can’t regulate your emotions, it is very difficult to change something. And I think those are hard pieces to put together, but I think it’s essential if we want to do something different behaviorally, being able to identify and regulate our emotions is a huge piece of it. 

Okay. I want you to say more about that, Brian, maybe give an example. Yeah. Okay. Suppose you want to change this. Help connect those dots. So, for example, let’s say you decide you’re going to go on a diet, right? So you’re going to try to change the way you’re eating and so if you’re not able to regulate your emotions when you go to lunch next time and you get your bag you packed, you know that salad and the grilled chicken and you’re done but right next to it is that Pepsi. If you can’t regulate, you recognize, you know what, and that’s going to be an emotional moment. 

That’s an emotional moment. Right? Exactly. Like, oh man, that sounds really good. You know, and your system fires up with excitement. And again, that’s not a bad thing, but if we don’t recognize that and say, okay, wait a second, I am excited. My body, my system would love to have that Pepsi. And my system is really good at telling me, you know what, it’s only 130 calories. No big deal, you know, I’ll cheat later, and I’ll get past it. You can just see, but if you can’t regulate it, you know what, deep breath, you know what, this is what I’ve decided and you know what, I’m going to make a good decision here. But to do that, I’m going to take a few deep breaths, let that excitement pass so that I can make a decision that’s based on my goals rather than that emotion in that moment. 

Because emotion is motivating. Yes. It seems like very often emotion does win the argument of behavior. Yeah. Doesn’t it? It does. Oh, very much so. Yeah. It is amazing how much stronger it is, and like we talked about early on, the movement that it takes our behavior. Like out of motion, it beats out logic nine times out of 10. 

And then I think the trick of it is that we go back to that change piece. Once you go ahead and drink that Pepsi, if that’s the only outcome, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. But then the emotion shows up of sadness or shame and it’s like, see, you blew it. Well, you might as well just quit. What’s the point now? You guys will start tomorrow and then you make another three or four bad decisions, you know, and it just compounds itself and so it’s off to the races.  

Okay, this has been helpful. We talked about breathing mindfulness. I’m sure there’s an array of other skills. Take another one and unpack it, Kathy?  

So, one of that fits nicely with what we were just talking about how important it is if we’re going to make any changes that we need to make sure that we have our emotions regulated so they’re not running the show. I think the acknowledgment that emotions will always be present, there is not a way to just get them to the point that they go away so that we can make these behavior changes, which the skill of expansion can come in there. And what that means is that we just make room for them. So, when you’re at lunch and you have the salad and the Pepsi and you’re seeing all of these emotions, it’s recognizing that presence of the emotions and maybe being able to go through that lunchtime feeling the distress of, oh man, that Pepsi would have tasted so good. Just making room for the distress or, oh man, I failed my diet right now because I drank the Pepsi. That’s distress you’re feeling. But just letting it be present. 

It doesn’t have to drive your behaviors for the rest of the day, but you can just let it be there as you continue with your plans. And that’s an expansion skill, meaning that we just make room for big and difficult emotions. I think that’s such a great point, Kathy, because it can be really discouraging when that excitement comes when we see the Pepsi or the frustration afterwards and we’re eating our salad, but that we should expect that and allow for that. 

And like you’re saying, it doesn’t have to drive it and, and so there’s an expectation piece. Oh, I would expect this to be present because of the situation that I’m in, but I don’t have to let it be in the driver’s seat. So, you’re expanding so that that can have its proper effect. And I think we actually do this naturally. Anyone that has been like kids on the first day of school, they might walk into school for the first time with a little bit of anxiety, but they still go. They just bring it with them. Walking into a job interview, you don’t wait to go in your job interview until you’re calm. Actually, that little bit of nervousness probably is helpful in those moments. 

And so, you make room for it, and you keep moving forward with what you have planned for that day. I think another skill that kind of connects with this as well is called diffusion and diffusion is trying to give ourself a little bit of space from the thoughts and emotions that show up in our minds that certainly we want to allow for them to be present, but also that we aren’t our thoughts, we aren’t our emotions, they don’t dictate what we do or who we are. 

And I think that’s probably a term that’s new to folks, but I think it’s an important one to think about. Like, how do I have a little bit of space, even though I allow those to be present? That’s interesting. Yeah. So expansion allows it to be present. Diffusion allows it to have space. Yes, exactly. And we detach it from who I am. It’s almost like knowing how seriously to take the messaging of the emotion. Is that another way to see it? Yeah. Exactly. Or the thought, how serious to take the thought that’s in your mind. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think, if we even just go back to the example that we’ve been using for the lunch, it’s very easy for the thought to show up, I’m such a failure or I’m just no good at this and to be able to say, well, of course that thought probably is going to show up, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true or that I have to take it seriously. 

I can say, you know what, I’m having the thought that I’m not any good at this. And that’s just adding that I’m having the thought. Thought is a way to diffuse it. So, it’s a thought versus this is who I am, which is what those thoughts and emotions really want to do. I think this is helpful, right? 

I think you’ve well defined the space of emotional regulation. You’ve identified the need, love the example. I think we see that we’ve gone to some effort to create a course that helps teach some of these skills. Kathy, why don’t you tell a little bit about that and speak to that. Yeah, so Brian and I have been working on a course that allows you to learn a little bit more about the topics we talked about today, about emotions and the importance of regulation, and then also to be able to take some very intentional time to learn about each of these skills and some other ones, and then also take time for dedicated practice in order for them to be a little bit more part of your life. 

Thanks, both of you, for pulling that course together, and for our listeners, you can go to our website, accounseling.org, there on the top ribbon, you’ll find courses, click on that, scroll down, and you’ll find emotional regulation course. You’ll read some information on it, there’s some buttons to push to sign up, and it’s pretty easy, so, we offer that to you. 

Thanks, each one, for being on. Thanks, Brian and Kathy, for sharing on this topic, and trust and pray that this has blessed you.