Helping Those Healing from Sexual Betrayal Webinar

And thank you each one for being on. Thanks for your questions. Many of you just had really, really thoughtful questions and hopefully Kaleb, we can at least provide some direction for that. But this topic is a bit of a landmine topic. While good counsel might be said one way for one couple, it’s not good counsel for another couple.

Am I right about that? There are so many personal aspects, unique aspects to sexual betrayal. Right. And individual circumstances and factors that come into play as far as we would recommend. But having said that, we’ll walk through just a general roadmap.

Good. Right. And what we want to capture is this roadmap moving forward. And certainly, there will be time at the end, if questions can be asked. You’d be welcome to that or chatting it in, you can chat questions in at any time. And we will try to capture those and hear those out as well.

So, let’s get right into it. Helping those healing from sexual betrayal. We are taking a bit of a perspective here and this is to equip those helping in this. And certainly, that’s going to need to be the audience that we’re speaking to, those who have boots on the ground helping in situations of sexual betrayal.

Okay. Let’s first start with a definition. I think a good way to start is to maybe be clear about what we mean by sexual betrayal. This is how we have attempted to capture it; sexual betrayal happens when a spouse breaks the trust of his or her spouse by engaging in intimate sexual activities with another person.

These actions could be any of the following, but are limited to pornography use, sexting, infidelity, and adultery. So, we’re going to let that be our first base in terms of building from this definition. When we talk about sexual betrayal, this is what we’re talking about, Kaleb. Our aim here today of this webinar is really to equip helpers to support victims of sexual betrayal and guiding them through the tangle that healing requires.

This visual right here, Kaleb, is it pretty accurate? Yeah. You know, we often say a picture is worth a thousand words. And I think the reality for those that have walked through it, but also for those of you who have walked beside those who have walked through it, it just feels like a big ball and mess of confusing emotions, experiences, and thoughts that are just overwhelming.

Right. It’s overwhelming, but it’s also extremely personal, right? This is a personal topic, one that’s different, for example, than someone walking through, for example, alcohol addiction, right? This just has a different experience with it, even secularly, right? Even outside of the Christian worldview, there is still something about this.

And while alcoholism certainly impacts relationships, impacts marriages, impacts how I function in relationships, there’s not the sense of offense towards those that I love that this topic brings. Yeah. That’s got to be one of them. There is a very personal nature to it. Pick a word or two out of this tangled mess here, Kaleb, as you work with couples, you see they’re all relevant. Yeah. So, I think initially it’s just the shock of finding out for the first time that this really happened right in my marriage relationship and shock at the point that again, we’ll talk more about this, but overwhelms the system.

And actually, we would say numbs out. And, so that certainly steps out at me, just as we think of jumping into this topic. And with that shock, obviously, questions coming in the immediate aftermath of something like this, that just takes the rug out from under the individual.

I think you’re really onto something and it makes so much sense. Everybody entering into marriage has a moment, a wedding service where this reality could not be further from our expectation. Yeah. Right. So, for to have expectations at a crisis, this topic certainly raises it, right? Yeah.

Yep. Absolutely. All right. Choose another one. So, shame is certainly another one. And again, I think, both for the one who perhaps is addicted, but also for the one who experiences the consequences of that addiction. So, in this case, we’re talking about the spouse. But the amount of shame that one feels, and again, there are a number of layers to this.

Even in thinking about being the personal nature of my spouse choosing someone else over me. Right. But then also, there’s reading Scripture, the bed undefiled and this brings brokenness and sin into the bedroom in the way that exposes what we read in Genesis, naked and unashamed.

Well, this obviously bring shame in there and so we feel it personally. And about the topic itself, right? Even to talk about it and bring it up and share about it. So, there are many layers to that. Yeah. You know, I think one word on this screen that could even trigger a person is this acceptance, right?

As if to say that, okay, there’s your answer, accept it. What am I accepting, Kaleb? That seems to be a very charged term. Yeah, a little bit about that. I appreciate you acknowledging that and even bringing that out, because we are not saying that you accept in the sense of we would define acceptance in a number of different ways.

Okay. Acceptance in the sense that we approve of it. Right. That we’re saying it’s okay. That’s not the acceptance piece that we’re talking about. But in walking with individuals through sexual betrayal, there is a sense that they need to accept their experiences, right? Their internal emotions, thoughts.

And again, that doesn’t mean I like them, I want them, but we would often use the term. The reality is this happened, right? The more I deny the fact that this really did happen, we would say clips or freezes the process of healing. And so, acceptance is by no means approving or saying, I like this or that it’s okay and that it should continue but rather the reality. So, there’s an acceptance piece, both from my experience, but also of relationally that this did happen to us. And so, what we’re going to do as we step through a couple of topics here today, we’re going to talk about understanding. Hopefully some of this teaching will scratch the itch of information and bring clarity to certain topics that are really helpful.

And then also we want it to be applicable, Kaleb. So, we want to equip you with action. So, the left and the right-hand information. And equipment is going to happen as we move through today’s webinar. So, let’s now look at this healing process. So, we talked about, I think even in the description that went out on the email, we’re going to talk about some signposts.

So here are seven signposts that signal the way through sexual betrayal. Now we do not have time to go into depth on all seven of these signposts, Kaleb, so I want this to be a 30,000-foot flyover so that we can see the forest for the trees, because what we are going to do is we’re going to go into three of them in more depth.

Okay. And you’ve helped me sort out which three you want to tackle, but I want you, for our audience, to at least sketch out this larger landscape of healing. Yeah. So, as you can see here, seven different signposts. And we would say even part of this thinking back to that ball is what it feels like.

And so just having some markers along the way, this is not to say that it’s linear by any means, right? Just as we go on a trip and a journey, there are detours that we take and things that happen. But so, it begins with appropriate descriptions. Disclosure. And this is critical because one of the things that we find is that information, meaning truth, can be dribbled out over time.

And so early in the early stages of sexual betrayal being shared, it’s really important that it’s shared in a way that’s both full disclosure without so specific in detail that it actually leads to additional trauma. So, that’s a double-edged sword. Yes, in the sense that we would say there are certain things that the individual spouse needs to know, like, when did this happen? Where did it happen? How long has it been going on? How much money was spent? Certainly. But then there are other details and specifics about the actual acts and things that we’re not saying full disclosure of all of that, because some of that can actually lead to implanting an individual’s minds and thoughts that are difficult to let go of. Okay. It just isn’t helpful in healing.

So, I think as we look at appropriate disclosure, we understand here that this is something that’s important and also needs to be cared for and stewarded. Yes. Yes, and one of the questions that came in was what is step number one when the betrayal is brought to light, you know, what is step number one, maybe go into that.

Once that appropriate disclosure is made, what’s the next step. So, the next step is just an ongoing awareness of understanding of addiction. And we would say both two and three go together here on the signpost. But back with this appropriate disclosure, I would say one of the things that often, and again, this is for the one who’s been sexually betrayed, there is a certain period that there are questions in that time that they can bring up to the individual that betrayed them.

And that’s appropriate. And that they’re thoughtful as far as what questions they do bring up, but the second signpost is understanding addiction. It is helpful to understand addiction and how it works. Like there is a cycle, there is a pattern to this behavior that is certainly a choice, and they’re responsible for it, but an understanding of it.

You know that this happens flowing out of shame and ritualization and preoccupation, that there is a number of markers there that can be helpful because in my experience in working with individuals that are coming out of this, they have to wrestle with how is it that this person both loved me and engaged this.

Right. And we would say addiction helps without minimizing or dismissing the reality of what it is, are very helpful. And so, you said it goes along with unpacking trauma. Trauma is a term that we’re hearing a lot these days. Yeah. So, they’ve used a number of different terms, but there’s a research study by Marsha Means, who looked at in this case, it was wives, whose husband engaged in sexual betrayal, 70 percent of them, met the criteria for what’s called PTSD, which is where trauma can manifest itself and lead to PTSD symptoms.

And so, what they’re finding is that this actually leads to relational trauma in the sense that it redefines the relationship from a place of being one of safety and a safe haven, a place that I go for stress and hurt and pain to one of danger. Now, it is a place where there’s been woundedness and betrayal and secrecy and does that make sense? So, related to the trauma it overwhelms the system, the individual. And so, it can lead to things like hypervigilance, we would say, you know, searching and looking, and avoidance. And so, understanding trauma as helpers with these individuals, is critically important. So that we understand, we would say, normal responses to abnormal circumstances.

So sexual betrayal does have a shock value. It has an effect that changes people. Yeah. They bend us in a way that now we walk with that limp moving forward that is rooted in that past hurt. Yes. Is that what you’re saying? Exactly. And it affects individuals in a way that’s almost automatic, their nervous system is changed by it.

And so, they may have intensive emotions at one point and they’re like, what just happened? I don’t know which I would guess leads to the triggers and needs. Yes. And part of the healing process after the disclosure is navigating triggers and understanding needs.

And certainly, we’ll get more into the fact that those play off the trauma. We are doing a fly over. You probably have a thousand questions that we’re not answering right now. We want to fly over these seven just to give you a sense of the forest for the trees. We are going to go in deeper into understanding triggers and needs number four as well as number five, healthy boundaries.

Yep. And the need to establish and even understand what are healthy boundaries and it is okay to ask, how should I be thinking about it? The next one there is just navigating emotions and as individuals who help, right?

Thinking of the mentor who walks alongside, one day we may see deep sadness, another intense anger. And so, part of the journey is navigating these feelings that are showing up in my body unexpected, unannounced, and it’s navigating through that. I’m so thankful there are those individuals, mentors who walk alongside to have a place that there’s a stabilizing place in the midst of the storm of many different emotions.

And so, we would say this is an important work in the grief process and an understanding of me, of the relationship and my spouse is just navigating fear, intense fear. If you think about the process of rebuilding trust. And so, that covers a lot, but I think also, what I find is some of us have experiences with maybe it’s not okay to have anger, for example. And so, there’s a lot of work that goes into the journey of when I start experiencing this anger to know that it is healthy. There’s a healthy way to express it. And that leads us then to number seven, which is rebuilding trusted forgiveness, which we’re going to spend some time doing.

That’s going to be one that we mine a bit more. Yeah. So, what you see here are seven signposts all with nuances with sub points that can be brought out. We’re going to zero in on triggers number four, boundaries number five, and then trust number seven. All of these are equally important, however, but in the interest of time, let’s move into this trigger piece. I’m going to just say this definition, a trigger is something that is rooted in the past which causes us to strongly react in the present with feelings of unsafety and insecurity.

Kaleb, what more do you want to say about that definition? And then we’re going to provide some nuances here. Yeah. Just the fact that a big part of the early work is to identify what a trigger is and how it shows up because, to know, does this have to do with the PTSD concept? It could, but not necessarily. Right. And so, it is from the concept of, yes, something happened back here that was destabilizing. If you think about specifically, even if you think about the secrecy that was happening, often what I find is more even than the act of what happened is the fact that there was something kept from me.

My spouse, the one who I care about. And that is extremely destabilizing when I thought I knew that person, right? I thought I knew them. And then there’s this part of them that I don’t know. And what else does this mean? And what else don’t I know? And so, something might happen that triggers that raw emotion and that fear, right?

Safety. And that’s what I mean by the trigger. Right. Can you give me an example of a trigger? Yes. So, it could be something that’s related to the sexual betrayal. So, for example, if pornography use happened at night when one of the spouses got up, right? And went downstairs. Then guess what? When their spouse gets up during the night to get a glass of water, that’s a trigger, meaning it shows up in the individual’s body mind. Or if it happened when the spouse didn’t come home 5:30 after work. And so now, anytime when he or she is not home, that could be a trigger. Yes. And we have to acknowledge that these are, as you’ve shared that they’re automatic, right?

It’s not a sense that I choose to just all of a sudden feel this way. It’s the way the brain works, it automatically goes to that place as a way of seeking safety. Automatic triggers are really about trying to navigate a minefield. After something was exposed that I didn’t know about in a way that leads back to safety that I can safely walk through. It is also making meaning of, you know, something happens, and I make meaning of it and the meaning is tied to that action.

He or she is not home. I know. Certainly. Yes. There was internet history deleted. I know why. Yeah. It’s again, I think, we don’t need to go into this, but just some understanding of the brain and the way it works and the different parts of the brain that the emotion part of the brain, amygdala, shows up and fires and the rational part of our brain goes offline.

Right. It just doesn’t engage. And that’s what happens during a trigger. And so, it automatically rigidly says this is happening again. So, we want to go into this aspect a little bit deeper here. Some sub points that you wanted to help them, this concept of the first bullet there is it’s not a sign of weakness.

And so, you have found it important when working with individuals who have been sexually betrayed to help them understand the meaning of triggers and what it doesn’t mean in the sense of weakness. Yeah. So, and we referenced with automatic response, I think as helpers who walk alongside these individuals, they are feeling things and experiencing things and thinking things for the first time and they feel like they’re going crazy, right? This robs the relationship of sanity. What is wrong with me? I’m feeling out of control and helpless. And what we would say is as helpers, we’d say that’s normal and it’s okay. And I’m right here, right? That’s an automatic. And I want to capture that for the helper.

So, you just said that what the helper can do is help normalize the triggered experience. Yes. And just be a place where your calming presence and reassurance that I’m here with you. I know it’s hard. All of those pieces are now your 2nd bullet here. I think this provides a lot of hope. It’s actually saying that learning to know what those triggers are and working through them can actually lead to understanding of our needs better and how those needs are to be met.

So now you’ve brought in this concept of needs. Yes. So that’s a new term, but you’re saying triggers and needs are tied together. And if you can identify a trigger, you might be onto something to help him figure out a need, right? Yeah. It’s an opportunity to understand part of this journey for the one who has been betrayed as to what are the needs that I have to move back to safety?

Right. And what are those with trauma, what we move naturally to is controlling this out here. Right. And eventually, which is understandable, in time, it’s moving towards first getting safe in here, right, with what I’m feeling and experiencing.

And certainly, we’ll talk more about boundaries. But that piece of understanding, what is it that I need, you just took a fork in the road in my own mental head. You took a fork in the road to say, helping those who have gone through sexual betrayal has a lot to do with helping them in their internal world rather than fixing the circumstances, which is exactly what we want to do.

We want him or her to stop doing what they’re doing. Right triggers. Number three triggers can be helpful in the painful aspect of healing. I think you’ve kind of made that point already. Let’s look at the fourth one. Working through triggers can help diminish their intensity and impact over time.

So, you’re providing this hope that good work can be done in the area. Yes, absolutely. And understanding when they show up and how they come up and, in some ways, planning for them. Right. That is all part of the, I would say, work that we do. So, you had mentioned the connection that triggers have with needs.

And so, let’s understand needs to help us understand what you mean by needs. Yeah. So, um, we would say that in an experience like this, again, we talked about it robbing safety, right? It breaks the safety of the relationship, but now redefines it as unsafe. Okay, but also the individual’s ability to make sense of, well, I thought I knew what they were doing, but now all of a sudden, I don’t.

And so, in that realm of anxiety, fear, anger, part of working through triggers is being able to learn to be quiet and calm and to say, what is it that I need in this situation? Meaning it may mean, I need to go on a walk to calm and quiet myself. It may mean, as we say there, so we split this into three different areas, right? A need that is met by God, a need that is met by others, which may mean spouse or maybe mentor, maybe somebody else, or a need that is met by myself. And so, identifying what need do I have that moves me more to stability and a place of groundedness, not that I’m fixing or changing this out here, but I’m able to be quiet and calm.

And so, it may be a need met by my spouse. Maybe I need you to start calling me if you’re not going to be home by 5:30. Right. Maybe that’s the need that I have that I express and that becomes the ask. Yes, and so part of working through triggers is to separate them from the past, the present, which is a trigger and then identifying how can I navigate this in a way that doesn’t read traumatized in the present.

Right. And so, a helper might help somebody identify where needs can be met, because certainly needs met by God or needs met by self would certainly be good soil to till right to help with that triggering moment, right? Yes, absolutely. Yep. So, let’s move along. Let’s look at these steps. I think just the idea that there are steps to walk through helps ground us in a path when, for individuals walking through it just feels like a mess and it’s chaotic and it does feel that way.

And so, you can see step one, identifying this as a trigger or maybe potential triggers that we can plan for going to certain places or locations and we know that, and we can talk through that with the individuals as what would their need be with someone going with them or not having spouse with them or again, just talking through that is planning ahead.

Step two is identifying how this trigger makes them feel. That is again, quieting enough to say, what does it bring up in me? And it moves internal and understanding because obviously part of this betrayal piece is about challenging different lies or insecurities that they perhaps believe about themselves as a result of what happened.

Yeah, and would that be how you address it? After you’ve identified a trigger says, what does that bring up in you? I would imagine people need help answering that question. Yeah. So, well, related to step 2, right? So, let’s say the trigger was husband came home at 6 rather than 5:30, right?

The example that was given. And so that led to intense feelings, overwhelming thoughts. And so, step two is identifying. So, what were the feelings that it brought up in you? And being able to identify, oh, this is what I noticed in my body, and this is what I recognize that I was telling myself, and this is what was happening in the moment that brings clarity and tries to start to untangle that web that we saw initially and make sense of. Yeah, of course, I feel extremely afraid or angry or whatever that was.

And then three, identify what they need to feel safe. What’s helpful to move them towards a place of stability and groundedness? If that were to happen again, or even in this moment, maybe they’re still in a place where they’re overwhelmed, Matt, when we’re talking to them.

And so, then we’re able to talk through, okay, what would be helpful for you? And thinking about that different diagram, would it be asking husband to stop doing this? Start doing this? Would it be just something for you individually? And so, that’s step three and step four.

And then finally, step five is about allowing God’s truth, Scripture verses to speak into you. From a place of you’ll notice it’s there when our brains are quieted and calm and grounded. I think these 5 steps provide a little bit of a go to and equipment to think through triggers identifying what the trigger is identifying how it makes us feel.

And then what assistance can be given to provide that safety or to address that inward emotion and then allowing God to speak, this really does move right into boundaries. Because I think what we’re going to see is boundaries has a big part of this and that’s where we’re going next.

So, let’s look at this boundary. So, now we’re looking at one of the other signposts here in understanding boundaries. And there’s, I think, some really good things to learn here. Here’s the information piece we have learned. I’ll just read the slide. We have learned throughout life that boundaries are protective. It shouldn’t be so loose that you have no value nor so rigid that there is no flexibility, rather it should be seen as a fence with a gate and the gate is controlled from the inside by you. Understanding what boundaries are, their purpose, and how to use them is, I think, really important as we think about action and creating healthy boundaries.

Yep. Yeah. So, you can see the bullet points there. The first is really around just prioritizing self-care for the individual that’s been betrayed. This is extremely exhausting. And, again, for our system to be in a state of shock for so long. And so, and it may be individuals, it’s not uncommon that, for example, identifying that it’s okay to have needs and say, I need to go on a walk, or I need to have some quiet time, or I need that actually this is a critical part of healing. Well, is whether it’s physical, emotional, spiritual. All of that is.

Mentors can come alongside and say, actually, this is good, and this is healthy to get your sleep to eat. Well, to all of those, they seem basic, but in the aftermath of a crisis, those are important boundaries. You know, I see in your second bullet, they’re helping them find their voice and express their feelings here. Again, it’s kind of the same motif of that inward look of the victim. What can we learn from your inward world? And that will inform us with healthy boundaries. Is that right? Yes. Speak a little bit about helping people find their voice. I’m sure you’ve seen a whole variety of situations here but give us an example where a person can’t put things to voice, or they need help with finding their voice that’s not been automatic.

Yeah. What does that look like? Well, so this partially goes back to one of the things that it’s not uncommon that at times there have been experiences even prior to the betrayal where needs or boundaries are viewed as selfish, that it’s not okay to bring up and say, I need this, whatever this is.

Not in a demanding way, but rather I need to go take a nap or I need to go out on a walk or whatever that is. I need some time with my mentor. And so part of finding their voice is identifying. Yeah. You know what? Just as in all parts of our life. Wow. When I reacted and I responded to my son this morning, guess what?

Taking healthy boundaries saying I’m a bit stressed right now and I need to identify a way to take care of that stress so that I’m not responding in ways that I don’t want to around those that I love. And so that’s identifying. Oh, cool. Yeah, I need to understand this is what it brought out to me and it’s not good for me to blame it on my son or whatever.

But for me to identify, hey, these are helpful ways I’ve found to relieve stress. And then how do I step into those? Give us an example of a boundary that helps to that end. Yeah. So, thinking specifically in the aftermath of the betrayal, there are really healthy boundaries for the healing process. So one may be, again, thinking about the lack of sanity of wondering, okay, what else is going on that we would say a healthy boundary may be within what’s called a 24-hour disclosure. Okay, which means. The one who has been maybe addicted pornography. If something happens within 24 hours, they share, right?

That they’ve slipped and they don’t need to go into detail. I think another boundary would be, you need an accountability partner. You need someone in your life who is holding you accountable in ways that the spouse is not. We would say that’s an unhealthy boundary for the wife.

If she’s the one that’s betrayed to be the accountability partner for the husband, because it puts her in a place that actually leads to increasing the anxiety. If I miss something, then he may act out and we would say, hold on a second. That’s not a healthy boundary. A boundary would say, in this case, husband, you need to find an accountability partner that the wife trusts, Okay.

Thanks. Okay. That’s a boundary. And that at the same time, there’s no secrecy here in the sense of, okay, it happened. There needs to be awareness, right? We’re open, but as far as taking responsibility, that goes with the accountability part. Okay. So, I think you’ve taken another fork in the road that I want to put my finger on.

Okay. And I think it’s really important. The boundaries then are about your own inward world. More about your own inward world. And your own health as opposed to fixing them. Yes. Which, very often we try to create boundaries for his or her interest, right? To have them stop that. Now, even in the example you gave about an accountability partner, I want to make sure we understand that the accountability partner is because you need the safety and the assurance that somebody is on this thing and that they’re not just alone in the battle but recognizing that I might not be the best one. For me to be in that place actually increases the anxiety and distress in a way that I start responding in ways that I don’t want to. Yes, I know.

I think that’s really insightful and we’re going to come back to that even a little bit more, I think. Let’s speak to this concept of helping them take responsibility for lies that may be present. And you’ve mentioned some insignificance in security and safety. I think these are real tangible things here.

Yeah. So, part of as for helpers, right? Walking alongside individuals is that we can believe lies. Some of those may have been already there and they just come out in different ways as a result of the sexual betrayal. Whether I’m insignificant or I’m not okay the way I am. I think about comparing to this individual that my spouse betrayed with, those are what we would say are all normal responses and fears, but taking responsibility to saying, I’m believing this. So, for the helper to step in, knowing that these are high stakes, emotions and significance, insecurity, and safety, being able to speak to these three and to help them on those, on those fronts is really good work.

Yes, it is. I think identifying what they are. What is that lie that they’re believing and then beginning to unpack it and understand it. And certainly, some of this happens in individual counseling. It’s not like all of this, but I think we again want to normalize. Of course, you’d feel insignificant, right?

But that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s true. And we got to walk through that. Yeah. Right. I think in this next slide here, Kaleb, I think you bring some wonderful summary to this concept of boundaries. That’s really, really helpful. And that is understanding what boundaries are not. And what boundaries are for you can see in that they are not to punish my spouse.

They are not to make my spouse change. Rather boundaries are to protect myself and others and to restore my relational, physical, emotional, spiritual health. There again, we’re going into the inward world of the offended and saying, how can boundaries be placed in my life so that I simply can really do what I am responsible to do. Right now, it’s my own personal health and I cannot control the other. Right. Is that what that looks like? Yeah, I think we would say we need to separate the healing journey of both the one who acted out and the one who is experiencing the consequences of their spouse acting out.

And in this case, it’s supporting that individual to say, actually, in some ways, giving them a voice, empowering them to say, this is how I want to live in this place. And because seeking to control, which is normal. That’s natural in this, we would say with trauma and anxiety is to control things out here.

So, I feel better. But in the end, we would say that’s a short circuit for actually being able to calm and quiet ourselves internally and to start setting boundaries. You gave a great example already with the 24-hour disclosure. Give us another boundary idea. That would bring clarity to this that you can see that it’s not punishing, but it is protecting self.

Yeah. So, let’s say for example, with the phone. So, let’s say it happened on the phone. So, maybe a specific boundary is that in the early stages, which I think this is tricky too, right? I think it depends on where we’re at in the healing journey. Yeah. Okay. But in the early stages a boundary might be to sleep, I need to know that your phone is in a certain location. It’s up here, right? It’s not downstairs. You’re not taking it with you. Or I need you when you get up just to let me know, hey, I’m going to the bathroom, does that make sense? So, I’m asking there’s a need in that case, I think that’s a great example, Kaleb, because you’re not saying, you keep your phone up here because that’s going to be better for you so that you don’t slip into this, that, or the other thing, while that might be the case.

And that’s great. If the spouse puts their own boundaries on themselves in that regard. The boundary that you’ve just prescribed is from the standpoint of my own mental and emotional and relational health. This would be helpful for me. And it’s not then lorded over the spouse as being a disciplinary action on him or her.

Yep. I think that’s really key. I think that’s very insightful. Yeah, and I think we get boundaries skewed often. Now, I’m going to ask you. Okay. You want to go? Well, just one of the things I was going to say is we don’t want to dismiss the need for the spouse to be able to process through the emotions of anger and justice, right?

All of these things that are a very real and normal part of the process, right? Boundary doesn’t just like say, okay, that can’t happen. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, I was going to give you a tough situation. Okay. And it came in through one of the questions and that is separation. I think this is a question that lies on many of us like what does separation look like even from the perspective of punishment or self-care and certainly with the Scriptures, you know, keeping a high elevation of marriage and not wanting to crack open the door to divorce.

Yes. And I would imagine this is a minefield question, maybe not fair, but I’d be interested. I think we all want to know what your thoughts are. Yeah. Well, I think for all of us, we would say a decision like this can’t happen in isolation, right? It needs to be happening with a multitude of counselors.

And we would say part of the healing journey it is critical that others are brought in, whether the others mean a minister, elder, or counselor, right? For each accountability partner that there’s a system in place that this isn’t out of reactivity. Okay. That’s the first piece. But we would say also there are times and places that separation is okay and even right for the sake of actually restoring the marriage, not as a means to move towards divorce.

Okay. Does that make sense? And so, some of that would be, for example, if the individual who is engaging in these acts disregards and does not take responsibility and actually step into the process that in time, it may mean again, we can’t speak in general generalities, but for the sake of safety of the individual healing. In this case, the one betrayed separation within the home. There are many different ways separation can happen, but it’s for the sake of the sanity and safety of the individual that has been betrayed to continue to heal. Why the other one is either disregarding, not repentant, maybe it’s more physical, emotional violence, harmful, and let me just say, and I would think it probably goes without saying all of this is on a on a gradient scale, depending on what the offense is.

Sure. Right. I mean, there would be certain offenses that might be on the table to think about and certain offenses that wouldn’t. But then the other thought that comes to me, what I hear is you explain that with a separation. if we have a heart towards each other and towards marriage, perhaps there can be some value in that.

If our heart is outward directed, it’s probably going to happen anyway. You know what I mean? If we have forsaken that, and if we have turned our back on it, but what you’re saying is keeping people facing one another and allowing that separation but directed towards each other and reconciliation.

Yeah. And it may even be, I would just maybe modify it slightly and face the same direction in the journey. One of the things that we use is what’s called a train track. You have two different trains, but you’re moving in the same direction. And I think it’s critical. We think about even the possibility of separation, that this is about moving towards a healthy, godly, safe, marriage relationship.

This is not about just disconnecting and disengaging in the same direction. Yeah, I like that. Thank you for fielding that question. I know it was on the minds of some who had chatted in and so let’s move on to this next one. We do want trust and forgiveness.

This is that last signpost. They’re not the same. Well, it’s not uncommon that they get combined. And so, in this process that an individual that in some ways, forgiveness is held up, would you say, because they feel like they have to fully trust. That forgiveness means I trust them and say what happened, but forgiveness can happen without trust. Correct? Yes. And think about the story of Joseph. There’s a good example in the Bible of saying, you know, he had forgiven his brothers, but he didn’t trust them. In fact, he tested them many times. And that’s really a healthy distinction to say they can take responsibility.

Forgiveness is not the same thing as saying, yeah, I trust you fully. Yeah. I really like, even in this definition here, you know, forgiveness can win us a peaceful posture. Which is really welcome a resolve and acceptance. Trust will win us a confidence and those are separate things, aren’t they?

And so, in forgiveness, you’ve mentioned at the bottom here can be achieved individually. But this trust requires cooperation. Yeah. So, everything up to this point, we’ve really been insular. We’ve been talking about the person who’s been offended in their inner world. Trust now does have two parties on the hook. Yeah. Right. And we would say really the responsibility, I have to be careful as I say this, lies on the individual who betrayed to restore the trust. But then there comes a point that the one who has been betrayed, there are risks involved in opening up my heart, and beginning to try.

I think one big banner over this whole talk is control and who has it and what isn’t without your control. Our insular lives are within control, our relationships are out of control. And that really is seen here in forgiveness and trust a little bit of a visual there on forgiveness, maybe briefly speak through that.

Yeah. I think, just the aspect that as you walk through that visual, owning your own feelings and sitting in them, we would say forgiveness is both a cognitive piece that I choose to forgive. But then there’s also the aspect of emotions of what that means, right? Of what does forgiveness really mean, and coming to grip just as Jesus Christ did at knowing what that looks like. So, it’s sitting with the feelings recognizing, and we would say this is a process, right? It’s not saying it’s okay. It’s an ongoing process with many yeses along that journey. Yes. Of agreeing to it. Yep, and finding God supernaturally equipping the work of forgiveness.

And so, we see it in God himself. Well, let’s set that aside and look next to trust. Yeah. So, we can just briefly go over this. I think it’s helpful to view. This is the foundation of repairing from betrayal is truth. Okay. It is openness and transparency that creates a ground where safety can be built.

Okay. And even at that, we’re not at trust yet, right? There needs to be safety. But what I like about this, Kaleb, is everything we’ve said prior about boundaries is really to promote truth and provide that safety. Yes. Isn’t it? Yes. So those are working towards this trustful end. Right. Exactly. And then you get to a place of trust and then vulnerability intimacy.

And I just like this visual. And I often with couples walk through this to be able to understand. Sometimes we want to jump from truth to trust, and we need to understand there’s a lot of work that needs to happen around the area of safety. And we’re not talking necessarily about physical safety, emotional safety to begin to risk, because if you think about it, how incredibly vulnerable it is for one who has been betrayed to start trusting again. That is a huge ask.

But well, let’s just start there. Would you say there is an internal hill they have to get over in order to be at a place where trust can even be possible? Yes, I think it begins though with their spouse. It begins for their spouse acting as a trustworthy individual.

Okay. But when there’s been consistent trustworthiness of an individual, even outside of their spouse, like maybe by an accountability partner, a minister that’s involved in the process. That saying, yes, they’ve been repentant. They’ve been remorseful. They’re taking responsibility. They’re doing the work, right?

All of those things that saying they’re trustworthy. Then yeah, there’s a chasm that is asked by the one who’s been betrayed to start stepping down and being, but even in that list you provided there is a posture that the victim has to simply say these things are important. Yes. And they are something and I am at an internal place where I’m willing to listen to those things. Yeah. Which I think is a challenge. Yep. It’s a lot, isn’t it? It is very much. So, we are very well aware of time. And some may have a question.

You typically find as one finding or identifying triggers is that the person having to trigger the spouse or a mentor advisor type or of role. So, who do you typically find as the one finding or identifying triggers? That’s the question. You follow the question. Yeah. So, I would say typically that’s the individual having them, right? So, in this case, the spouse had been betrayed, or it may be in the process of a mentor or a counselor, as they’re talking through what happened.

Oh, that sounds like a trigger to me, but I wouldn’t say in this case it’s healthy for the one who betrayed to start labeling that their spouse is having a trigger. Oh, that must be a trigger that we would say, no, that’s not helpful or healthy. So, they really don’t have any credibility to speak into that place, but a mentor or somebody walking alongside, do you find yourself asking, what kind of questions would you ask a person to elevate triggers?

Well, I think part of it is again thinking about a trigger is an automatic response. And so, when they’re bringing up and sharing a situation that is laden with intense emotion that feels out of control that so I’m listening for that as I’m engaging the individual. And if we’re able to identify and again, the trigger is saying this is something that happened present day, that’s connected to the past, which even that in itself, identifying it leads to some stabilization and say, oh, it’s not happening necessarily right now. Right. But even if it is, I can seek safety right now on my own. So yeah. That’s helpful. Thanks for that.

That question that came in by chat. And so, you’re free to do that. We just have one slide that I want to show here. And again, if somebody has a question that they want to pose, you can interrupt us, you can chat it in. But this idea of rebuilding trust. And here are these action points. You’ve got a number of principles here. Speak to any of these principles as it regards trust. Yeah, the first principle I give myself permission to not trust my spouse is, we think about how we started, and you wouldn’t have thought about being in this place, you know, for a couple that has committed themselves together and as helpers to say, yes, of course, this makes sense that you don’t trust them.

I wouldn’t trust them either. Right. And so, you’re giving space to actually what they’re experiencing. And as to say, actually, now the responsibilities on the one who betrayed, and I think that the piece is related to I’ll surrender my spouse and his or her process to God. It goes back to there’s individual work that needs to happen.

That’s really exciting. The one who betrayed is responsible to move in a place that they’re worthy of your trust. Right. That’s the piece that I think is really, I think that principle three too, that’s a hard thing to surrender. When we want to win that process because we desperately want to, I mean, if there’s anything we desperately want, there’s a few things more than we want than that.

Right. And it is hard to let go of that as a spouse. Right. Yes. Watching them choose to do different things that may actually be hurtful or hard and to set boundaries in the place of that, but to surrender him or her to God. Ultimately, while we support the spouse that has been betrayed and finding safety and sanity and quietness and God’s presence in the midst of the broken.

Well, and I see that as being a hand and glove to principle four, where you’re surrounding your own process. And you early on said in this webinar, you mentioned that there are two processes happening now. One for the victim, one for the perpetrator, right? Both have a road ahead of them coming out of sexual betrayal, right?

And that really illustrates those. Yep. We would just say it’s important that both take responsibility for their own healing in that process. And that’s important work even before we think about doing marriage counseling or restoration or reconciliation. Right. Is that there’s important groundwork that is laid there.

And I think the importance, Matt, for each of us, ultimately God is a refuge when the storms are raging and that might be in your marriage, right? That might be in other places that there’s a place of safety and peace, not peace in the sense that everything feels good, but I know I’m going to be okay.

Right. That comes from resting in God in the midst of horrible circumstances. This is not to say this out here, everything’s going to be okay, but God is with me here. Yeah. I really appreciated that, Matt, let me ask a question while we’re waiting to see how that comes in.

Just from a mentor’s point of view or someone who’s called and was a helper. I want to go back to the beginning and put yourself in that scenario where someone confides in you, or you receive that initial call of a situation of someone who has been betrayed and they’re in that initial, maybe shock, awe, whatever you want to say. Kaleb, what would you, almost as a triage, what would you encourage, what’s the first step that a helper should think about in those contexts?

Yeah, because our mind probably goes in a lot of places and wants to solve and fix and all these kinds of things, but what would be some just initial thoughts? Yeah, I think the first thing Arlan is just expressing appreciation for them sharing with you. Thinking back to how personal this is and how private this is, the fact that they reached out to you and they’re disclosing this, I think beginning there and being able to say, thank you so much for sharing with this with me and in your own words, I appreciate that and I want you to know, I don’t know exactly what the path looks like, but I want you to know I’m here and I want to walk with you through this. And so, I think the initial call is just, we don’t need to have everything figured out.

We just need to emphasize the relationship we have with them and that we’re there and we’re glad that they called. Certainly, I think that’s the first piece I would just really encourage and that you don’t have to have all the answers. None of us have all the answers, but it’s about your presence and normalizing meaning.

Yeah, of course, this is like all of those things like that. So, we do have our chat came in again, any advice for a victim that can’t get past safety and trust as spouse continues betrayal after months of first exposure. Yeah. It’s one thing for it to happen and to work beyond it. It’s another thing for it to continue to happen.

It’s like that disclosure completely. And I don’t know we could address whether the perpetrator is repentant or not, but I can see scenarios of both. Yeah. So interested in your advice here, Kaleb, what advice for the victim that can’t get past safety and trust as the betrayal continues.

Yeah. So, first, obviously that’s a painful thing, right? Is that it keeps opening up the wound that was there. The second, so then the goal is seeking safety. So, I think this is different if we’re talking about a spouse that’s continuing a betrayal, does that mean someone who’s actually committed to a process and who has viewed pornography again but trajectory-wise is moving in a direction that they’re open, they’re transparent, they have accountability partner, they have a counselor, they’re taking responsibility overall. Or is this one who’s betraying again, and you haven’t seen remorse, you haven’t seen taking responsibility, an engaging individual.

I need counseling. I’m willing to work with accountability. I’m willing to talk to a pastor, right? A minister. That to me feels very different. So, for the victim, where the betrayer is refusing to take responsibility, my encouragement is to work right with your counsel, your support system in finding ways in this case to put appropriate boundaries in place so that you can get to safety because if this is keeps happening and then the betrayal is not taking responsibility, we would say the goal is safety and sanity for the victim.

And so working with the support system to put the boundaries in place and say, you know, whatever that may be, I’m hesitant to give specifics because I don’t know the exact situation. And no, for sure. And the situations are very nuanced. And so that would change your counsel, depending on what they are.

But when I even hear you saying, Kaleb, which is very helpful, is boundaries can be put in place to promote safety and the foundations of future trust, no matter where we are at in the journey. Now, again, not knowing exactly what the infringement is. Okay. Yeah, an adulterous affair, pornography, right?

We realize that there’s a large spectrum here. But to simply know where they’re at. And then to apply boundaries pertinent and relevant to this is where we’re at right now. And to your point about are we moving in the right direction? What boundaries can I put in place so that I can be assured with safety that we are moving in the right direction?

That becomes where my boundary line is set. Right? Rather than total control, changing the spouse. Yep. Good question. Excellent. It’s an excellent question. You know what? This actually leads to a question that was on here about realistic expectations for the healing journey.

And I think that’s relevant to this question that this individual has to Kaleb. What can you say? Because I think that is somewhat helpful. And maybe that dips into the addiction piece and that signpost, right? Yeah. So, I think the reality is for a healing journey like this, we’re going to expect that this is not going to be a linear journey.

Okay. And so, there are going to be times, whatever that looks like, slip backs or things that happen that we need to reevaluate. So, as far as realistic expectations for the journey, I would encourage us, you know, saying this is going to be a couple year journey.

This is not like a few months and then we’re through it. Okay. Oftentimes, sexual betrayal like this is patterns that are ingrained over years. Okay. And so, unraveling that doesn’t happen overnight, nor does the consequence of what happened. And so, we need to say, realistically, this is going to take some time, but I think that’s where chunking it would be helpful to say this initial work is about stabilizing and then seeking safety.

Right. And all of that work before we even think about trust. Or even going down the path of trust. And so, related to real expectations, I think, because I’m not sure exactly how to answer, even as you say that too, I hear you saying, have an eye towards the direction you’ve already mentioned this, having an eye towards the trajectory, having an eye towards, instead of evaluating only on location, right?

Right. You have more in our evaluation, because that is going to allow us to do the long haul, which is required. And so, to have that long view, vision and expectation, yes, it’s required. Yeah. I think if we see the context of the path which it’s going versus just a specific incident.

Yeah. These are excellent questions. Thanks for sharing those. We are past our time. I wanted to keep this to an hour, and I thank you each one for giving up your hour and thank you each one for the investment you have in the lives of others in this very important matter. So, so critical.

It’s good to know that there are so many out there in this space. So, thank you each one for being honest. Thank you.